Cowden--Buhner--Zhangs???

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GWB
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 12/31/2009 7:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I've had lyme disease since 1995. Diagnosed five years ago. Been on and off abx since that time with no success. Abx have done a number on my stomach, plus I can't handle many of the side effects.

I'm experiencing neurological symptoms, blurry eyes, joint pain, gut pain, anxiety, just to name a few. I do not have night sweats and normally I do sleep well through the night, except for waking up from joint pain (arthritis).

My LLMD says (according to the tests two years ago) I don't have co-infections but he suspects I do have them. Which ones? I don't know. I suspect I do have one or more co-infections but don't really know for sure.

I do know that my neuro problems and all the rest of my symptoms have gotten worse in the past few months. The gut pain is probably the most bothersome. I was tested for yeast-negative.

After doing a lot of research over the past few months I've decided that I need to treat this disease again. I've decided to go with a herbal protocol. Sadly, where I live there are no good naturopathic doctors in our area. I've visited with a few of them and they are clueless when it comes to lyme disease.

Here's my questions: I have researched the Condensed Cowden protocol, Zhang, and Buhner. It's really hard for me to decide which one to go with.

There are both positive and negative reviews from people who've tried these protocols. It doesn't appear one herbal protocol is that much better than the other one from what I can tell from researching this.

One thing I like about the Cowden protocol is it is organized and well structured and easy to understand. But is it the best herbal protocol of the three?

I would like to hear from those of you who've tried any of these protocols and tell me which one you are on (or have been on) and how did you do on the protocol. Did anyone overcome lyme with any of these protocols?

Anyone is welcome to comment on this topic even if you haven't done a herbal protocol. Any comments, feedback and input would be greatly appreciated. For those of you who suggest I stay on antibiotics, I can't. It's no longer an option for me. I wish it was, but it isn't.

I plan to start this herbal treatment in January. I can't put it off any longer. This disease is destroying my health, and if I don't do something soon it's going to destroy my life.

I'm looking forward to getting input from those of you here on this forum. I want to get well (as we all do). I'm hoping and praying that one of these herbal protocols will help me to accomplish this.

Thank you in advance for your contribution to this thread.

Gary

ttlittlestar
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 296
   Posted 12/31/2009 8:35 AM (GMT -7)   
I am on Zhang's and it has really helped. I also made a lot of lifestyle changes as well so I think it all adds up. Have a rebounder, and infrared sauna, try to keep to an alkaline diet, and I have a Rife machine.

CajunGrl
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 12/31/2009 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Cowden seems to be a good and easy protocol to follow. I have a friend on it right now but she just started so cannot speak from experience. I know it's a hard decision to make because you want to make the right one. It's just hard to say what will work for you specifically. What works for one, may not work for another. We have another member here that did good on Jernigan's protocol.
**You never know how STRONG you are....until being STRONG is the ONLY choice you have**

lymediseasethroughmyeyes.blogspot.com/

Co-Moderator Lyme Disease Forum


blessings723
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 12/31/2009 11:59 PM (GMT -7)   
I just picked up a bottle of samento and parsley- cowden- from my LLMD's "cowden" literate pharmacist- would love to hear updates on how your friend does on it Cajungrl!
I refuse to stay sick! Period. 
 
 


Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 1/1/2010 12:47 AM (GMT -7)   
I started Buhner's protocol in Spring of 2008 by taking first Andrographis, then adding in the Cat's Claw a few weeks later, and then a few weeks after that (mid-June), I added the Japanese Knotweed. One week later (end of June), I lost my ability to swallow and it has been a very slow road to recover the ability to eat/drink again. I still cannot swallow liquids, and am maintained on IV nutrition and IV hydration (though we are weaning down the IV nutrition slowly). The LLND's & LLMD's locally all agree the Japanese Knotweed had something to do with my loss of swallowing (I also have had problems with motility throughout the rest of my digestive system for a long time - believed to be related to Lyme Disease - but the swallowing issue was a new issue as of 2008), but whether the swallowing issue was due to a herx, a Lyme flare, or something else they cannot say for sure. All I know is, I won't be taking Japanese Knotweed anytime soon, and if I ever do again, it will be much smaller dose.

I guess the point of all of this is to strongly suggest that you have guidance with these herbal protocols, and that you proceed with caution. I know Zhang offers phone support, Buhner has online support, and there may be other support options for the other herbal protocols as well that I am not familiar with.


Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


GWB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 570
   Posted 1/2/2010 7:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Razzle said...
I started Buhner's protocol in Spring of 2008 by taking first Andrographis, then adding in the Cat's Claw a few weeks later, and then a few weeks after that (mid-June), I added the Japanese Knotweed. One week later (end of June), I lost my ability to swallow and it has been a very slow road to recover the ability to eat/drink again. I still cannot swallow liquids, and am maintained on IV nutrition and IV hydration (though we are weaning down the IV nutrition slowly). The LLND's & LLMD's locally all agree the Japanese Knotweed had something to do with my loss of swallowing (I also have had problems with motility throughout the rest of my digestive system for a long time - believed to be related to Lyme Disease - but the swallowing issue was a new issue as of 2008), but whether the swallowing issue was due to a herx, a Lyme flare, or something else they cannot say for sure. All I know is, I won't be taking Japanese Knotweed anytime soon, and if I ever do again, it will be much smaller dose.

I guess the point of all of this is to strongly suggest that you have guidance with these herbal protocols, and that you proceed with caution. I know Zhang offers phone support, Buhner has online support, and there may be other support options for the other herbal protocols as well that I am not familiar with.


Take care,


Razzle, Wow, that's pretty scary what happened to you. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the Japanese Knotweed. Thanks for sharing this information with me. Makes me real reluctant to try this but antibiotics aren't a option for me. I sure hope and pray that you continue to improve and gain your ability to swallow again.

Gary

Post Edited (GWB) : 1/2/2010 7:44:57 PM (GMT-7)


Harleyrider
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 283
   Posted 1/3/2010 9:00 AM (GMT -7)   
GWB Abx definitely mess with ones stomach thats a givin. The most help with the abx was when it was in IV form.
I did not have trouble at all with stomach issues until I started on oral abx. IV treatments helped me most with the
brain fog and pain..

Hope you find a treatment that works for you, good luck in your journey
 


Deejavu
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 1/3/2010 3:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi GWB,
 
I am totally better and I followed Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book.  He grows his own botanicals and harvests them as well as tests them.  Dr. J. had severe chronic lyme himself and after he healed himself he wrote books about chronic lyme.
 
I found his protocol to be fantastic, very organized with so much information in his book.  I think he goes beyond lyme itself as he addresses every aspect of the human body and mind.  
 
Anyway, I always advise people to first read his book so they are informed.  I was able to do his protocol from home and that was 4 years ago and I am still going strong!   Dr. J. is very big on detoxing which makes much sense as detoxing gets rid of remaining symptoms and minimizes any herxes.  
 
He came out with a revised book  "Beating Lyme Disease" and it can be found here (soft cover is less money compared to the hard cover):
 
 
Hope this helps,
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Detoxing Daily!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 


nefferdun
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 1/4/2010 9:09 AM (GMT -7)   
Deejavu
Please tell us more about Jernigan's protocol, what herbs you used. . . How long did you use his protocol? How sick were you when you started it, had you been on abx prior to that, were you on abx during the time that you also used his herbs? How long did it take you to respond. How long has it been since you felt symptoms. Which infections did you have and what symptoms such as neuro versus arthritic form of lyme. Do you continue to use his herbs to keep yourself in remission or do you trust that you are well and no longer need them?

A lot of questions I know but it is very helpful to understand someone else's experiences. I know nothing about this protocol - will order the book but would like to know more from you.

Has anyone else been cured from a strictly herbal protocol?

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 1/4/2010 6:58 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi nefferdun,
 
If I can be of any help to you, that would be great!  Dr. Jernigan's protocol is simple yet it's not simple because he addresses so many aspects of the body and mind.   I really needed to read his book before starting his protocol which has so much information.    His first book confused me at times so I had to take sticky notes and put them all over his book! 
 
Anyway, I was really sick and went undiagnosed for at least 5 years.  I got to the point where I was bedridden, everything hurt, my joints, my legs, and for about a year or so I couldn't walk (had to use crutches).  I think the worse pain was in my legs (felt like hundreds of tiny knives inside) and even Advil wouldn't help the pain (looking back I wish I had known then about detoxing but I didn't).
 
There were days when I would wake up and wonder if I was going to die that day.   But I knew I had to fight so I started researching diseases on the internet because of all the doctors I saw, they all told me basically the same thing, there was nothing wrong with me or I was depressed, or I had chronic fatigue syndrome which I knew was not true (yeah, I did get depressed because none of these doctor's could diagnose me!).
 
Anyway, after doing extensive research I knew I had lyme and I guessed I also had ehrlichiosis based on what I read.  I was running out of doctors to see and that is when I remember this nurse I knew from years ago so I searched for her and found her.  Made an app't to see her at this clinic and she performed Dark Field Microscopy and I was watching my own spirochetes on the monitor, I was fascinated!   She was scared for me and that was the first time I had ever heard the word "spirochetes". 
 
I went to my Dad's doctor and walked in his office and blurted out "I HAVE SPIROCHETES!" LOL!   He immediately started testing my heart which was fine and sent me to an ID doctor who took vials of my blood and sent them to IgeneX (never heard of them before).   Sure enough, my tests came back CDC positive for lyme and ehrlichiosis.   Doc put me on Doxy for 6 months but I didn't feel any better.   That was around 1999 - 2000.   Doctor didn't want to give me any more antibiotics because he was nervous that they would cause harm to my body so I felt lost and didn't know what to do. 
 
It was about 2 years later or so that I had joined a forum (not this one) and I already tried samento, colloidal silver, and then some members talked about Dr. Jernigan including a member here (she has not posted in a long time for personal reasons, not lyme related) and she went to Dr. J's clinic in Kansas and her husband would report on how Dr. J. was treating her and I was really impressed!  So I bought Dr. J's book and started his "healing at home" protocol.   That was over 4 years ago.  
 
Basically, Dr. J's medicines consist of botanicals that he grows and harvests himself in Kansas.  He uses something he invented called Bio-Reasonance Scanning to test all of his botanicals.   Dr. J. has chronic lyme disease himself thus when he healed himself he decided to help others by opening up a clinic and writing books. 
 
I was on his protocol for about 8 months total.  I felt better within the first month which shocked me!  At that time I was taking only 1 botanical called Borrelogen.  I actually felt hope that I was going to get better for the first time in years!   So I continued on his protocol and kept learning more and reading more of his book as I skipped parts in the beginning.   I learned how important detoxing was, diet, trying to stay positive, and the specifics of lyme bacteria and how they work inside our bodies.  
 
So basically that's my story and I have been symptom-free for all these years.   The only supplements I take is Green Vibrance to keep my immune system strong as that product is packed with vitamins and minerals plus it acts as a detoxifier, DE,  I keep up with detox baths, foot baths, coffee enema's and exercise and eat right.   I used to make green smoothies but now that I'm on a diet, I don't do that anymore.  I eat my greens!  Right now I am taking Humaworm as it's been a long time since I did a parasite cleanse.   I never used a sauna because I don't have access to one but I sweat from exercising. 
 
As far as others, yes, I know people who never took any antibiotics in their entire life and used Dr. Jernigan's protocol and they are completely well too!   
 
I say this to everyone, knowledge is power and you have nothing to lose by reading his book (his revised book is much better as it has more information in it). 
 
Hope this helps!
Denise


It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Detoxing Daily!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 


Tala3
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 233
   Posted 1/4/2010 7:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, very informative! Thank you for sharing that with us. Gives us all hope! And, thank you for continuing to post, now that you are symptom free. People like you are the ones we need to hear from - it helps us to keep trudging along when we feel like giving up.

blessings723
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 1/5/2010 11:52 PM (GMT -7)   
I think that is so amazing- i just really wish more people would get on and post about Dr. Jernigans protocol like Denise does.
I refuse to stay sick! Period. 
 
 


CatDuck
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 1/8/2010 10:13 PM (GMT -7)   
I used Dr. Jernigan's Lyme protocol years ago. I was healed! He is definitely a good faith healer and you can find out about his products all over the web. Just google his name as well as his clinic name and you will find many hyperlinks to many of his products. (He even has swine flu products now!) I have to say that I was very lucky to have found him when I did...I, like Deejavu, had problems with alcohol and many family problems. But the thing is, I got better! That's all that counts in my book.
I came to this site originally for a friend to find others who had been cured for Lyme disease and co infections by Dr. Jernigan or Hansa clinic. I was happy to see that Denise had the similar results I did and I hope sometime if there are others, that they will come here too and speak up.

---Denise - If you know of any other Lyme testimonials, could you please hyperlink them here? I have not been on here in a long time so I'm thinking there must be others by now from here that have had success like us. I would be very thankful to have more info because my friend is not doing well. He has only been able to get very low dose antibiotic treatment and the little he has been on has not helped. Thanks.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 1/9/2010 10:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi CatDuck,
 
I didn't know that Dr. Jernigan had products for swine flu, I do know he has a product called Nano Derm lotion to protect oneself from viruses and germs.   What products are you talking about?
 
Also, Dr. Jernigan never uses the word "cured"..  So I'm a bit confused about that.  No one is ever cured of anything, the common headache, a paper cut, etc.  
 
Sorry, I can not give any success stories as I would be invading other people's privacy.  I would tend to think that since you are better, you would be able to advise your friend on what to do to start getting better such as detoxing, diet, etc. plus your knowledge of the botanicals.    I'm sure you have Dr. J's original book, right?
 
Denise


It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Detoxing Daily!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 

Post Edited (Deejavu) : 1/11/2010 4:53:41 AM (GMT-7)


nefferdun
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 1/9/2010 4:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Denise for posting your inspiring story. I am going to order the book and when I get off this round of abx I will give Jernigan a try.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 1/11/2010 5:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi bucci,
 
I heard about Envita though I do not know if the people that went there are still in remission.    I know more people who went to the Hansa Center (Dr. Jernigan) and are symptom free after a substantial amount of time.
 
As far as the Hansa Center, no, I didn't have to go there as Dr. J's "Healing at Home" protocol worked for me from his book "Beating Lyme Disease".   I recommend reading his book (the new one, 2nd edition) before doing anything so you have more knowledge about chronic lyme.   Another good book is Healing Lyme by Stephen Buhner just to get a better understanding of this disease.
 
Hope that helps,
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Detoxing Daily!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 


Idesign50
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 3/25/2010 1:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Denise, I am thinking about going to the hansa center for my Lyme. If you know of anyone who has gone there, I would love to hear about thier experience. Pls. PM me. Thank you so much

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 3/25/2010 4:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, I haven't look at this forum in a while as I have been really busy!  Anyway, GWB aka Gary went to the Hansa Center recently and he has many posts about his treatment there.   Gary could tell you much more than I can because I never went there, I followed his protocol from his book.
 
I know another member who also went there and she has been in remission for a very long time now (she suffered for over 30 years as she was misdiagnosed as having fibro).   This member never took any antibiotics and got completely well from chronic lyme.   I talk to her personally and she is recovering from an operation so that's why she is not posting but I'm sure will will post as soon as she feels better.  
 
Hope that helps a little bit,
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Detoxing Daily!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 


great expectations
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 3/27/2010 1:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Denise and everyone,
Thanks for your posts.
I really appreciate how informative and supportive this forum is :-)

Health to All,
Paulette

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 9/16/2015 4:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Bumping this 2009 thread for Alimom. I don't mean to confuse you but wanted to give you another option.

Most months this protocol cost me $100.00, other months $150.00 when I took 3 botanicals together.

GWB aka Gary is still doing fantastic and living a great life!! :-)

Denise
9 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine. Green Vibrance only

I still detox even though healed. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! :-)

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

bonnawanna
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 98
   Posted 8/29/2016 2:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Has anyone who uses or used Dr.Zhang herbs had any stomach issues. I have been on the protocol for a little over three months, and I believe it is working, although I am still herxing pretty bad at times. I am experiencing some pretty sharp pains, cramping, discomfort/spams, and I am wondering if it is from the Alliicin, and or the Artemisiae. Dr. Zhang says no, and I am hoping that is right-he says that the Lyme itself is causing the abdominal issues. I think it is a great protocol, and I will be devastated if I have to stop it , because of stomach side effects. You can never get a break from this insidious disease. Any and all input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

rjb

Tigerwithlyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 8/29/2016 8:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi all,

We have three people on full Cowden protocol in our St. Louis support group. Two of us are also on Ondamed biofeedback therapy. I am one on both and they have helped me tremendously. I am also adding Ozone therapy which I started last week. My second trip will be Thursday. The other on both has dramatically improved from passing out at work, air hunger and all kinds of other issues this last April, to feeling great now. The third person on Cowden is going to start Ondamed soon.

We also have several others starting Cowden so I will update as we see results. We also have another who just started Ondamed and she is seeing a difference but has a long way to go. We have another who just started Buhner so too early to update on that. I am the guinea pig on Ozone and others are waiting to see if I have results.
Hope this helps you some!

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1662
   Posted 8/30/2016 10:39 AM (GMT -7)   
Simon-I wanted to add this for you. I found this by fluke a few weeks ago. I've never used it but was surprised by it since I'd never seen it or seen it mentioned. It's my understanding that Dr J's wife runs the site.

www.jnutra.com/

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 8/30/2016 10:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes, that's Dr. J's wife. They divorced a while back and she maintains the right to sell the products.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)
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