Soviet Technology might work on antibiotic resitant infections

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TOguy
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   Posted 1/3/2010 12:59 PM (GMT -7)   

A recent study has identified a bacteriophage (phiBB-1) that specifically targets Borrelia burgdorferi. Since the early 20th century, phage therapy has been used in the Republic of Georgia instead of antibiotic therapy. Phage therapy involves using a parasite's natural predators to treat illness. For more information, feel free to peruse the following links. If any of you decide to pursue this form of treatment

has anyone heard of this or knows of anyone that has been cured with this treatment?

 




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12251603_Bacteriophages_of_spirochetes

http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Borrelia

http://www.phagetherapycenter.com/pii/PatientServlet?command=static_homeHere are the links on the clinic, and the company that runs it in the location of Mexico is that being outside US territory

http://www.phageinternational.com/

http://www.phagetherapycenter.com/pii/PatientServlet?command=static_home


 
 
     Respectfully,JB


Razzle
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   Posted 1/3/2010 2:02 PM (GMT -7)   
I've heard of this and consider it to be a dangerous way to deal with infections...basically one is substituting one infection for another. What happens when the second infection gets out of control? I don't think there is nearly enough information known about this for it to be used safely. Just my humble opinion...
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


achievinggrace
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   Posted 1/3/2010 4:38 PM (GMT -7)   
I think you have to be at 105F for three days to kill Lyme -- which would pretty much kill you.

+Lyme
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   Posted 1/3/2010 8:12 PM (GMT -7)   
STrange -- but shortly before penicillin was discovered, there was a Dr who received a Nobel prize for his work on syphillis. He injected patients w/ malaria, causing spiking fevers. Some patients were cured of the syphillis and needless to say, some died. I do not remember his name, but found this while out there researching.
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
 
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.


Razzle
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   Posted 1/4/2010 12:33 AM (GMT -7)   
The malaria thing has been tried with Lyme but it doesn't work as well for Lyme as it does for Syphilis...I suspect because the Lyme bacterial is a way more complex organism than Syphilis.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


phdkso
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/5/2010 6:46 PM (GMT -7)   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I give presentations on phage therapy and can indicate that there is lots of science to indicate that it works. Below a handout I use:      Superbugs, Phage Therapy: Getting Beyond Truthiness!

The following headlines might have appeared in Canada:

1917: Canadian microbiologist, Felix d'Herelle, discovers natural nanotechnology, bacteriophage therapy, that can cure and prevent superbug infections and foodborne bacterial disease.

2008: Canadians continue to suffer and die unnecessarily from superbug infections and foodborne disease because Canada is too venal to approve and use natural nanotechnology, bacteriophage therapy, discovered by Canadian microbiologist, Felix d'Herelle in 1917.

While 8000 to 12000 Canadians are dying from antibiotic-resistant superbug infections annually the joke is on us, as some countries still practice technology discovered by the Canadian, Felix d'Herelle in 1917. Phage therapy uses highly specific viruses, bacteriophages, which are harmless for humans, to treat bacterial infections. Phage therapy is not currently approved or practiced in Canada. According to a letter signed by a former federal health minister it can be made available legally to Canadians under the Special Access Program of our Food & Drugs Act! A discussion of phage therapy is currently very timely because of the release of the Canadian film: Killer Cure: The Amazing Adventures of Bacteriophage and the book by Thomas Haeusler entitled, Viruses vs. Superbugs, a solution to the antibiotics crisis? ( see http://www.bacteriophagetherapy.info ). Both references are available at Ottawa libraries.
This file has dramatically changed because the US Food and Drug Administration has amended the US food additive regulations to provide for the safe use of a bacteriophages on ready-to-eat meat against Listeria monocytogenes (see http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/02f-0316-nfr0001.pdf ). Also http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opabacqa.html . The idea that ready-to-eat meat can be treated if contaminated with Listeria bacteria while a doctor could not get a pharmaceutical grade phage therapy product when faced with a patient suffering listeriosis strikes this author as absurd especially considering the recent massive recall of ready-to-eat meat in Canada due to contamination with listeria. Information is available on phage therapy treatment in Georgia , Europe ( http://www.phagetherapycenter.com ), or Poland - (
http://www.aite.wroclaw.pl/phages/phages.html ) or more recently at the Wound Care Center, Lubbock, Texas ( http://www.woundcarecenter.net/ ) .
Canada should establish 'The Superbug Victim Felix d'Herelle Memorial Center for Experimental Phage Therapy' to provide phage therapy to patients when antibiotics fail or when patients are allergic to antibiotics.


TOguy
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/6/2010 9:46 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Phdkso for those interesting facts ,what do the rest of you think in treating Lyme D with Phage Therapy?, can it be cured this way?, has this therapy cured Lyme patients? Phdkso do you know of anyone being cured with lyme with this therapy? where are the clinics that offer this therapy?
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


phdkso
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   Posted 1/6/2010 5:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Allow me to just elaborate a little more. If a disease is caused by a bacterium then there is every likelyhood that there are bacteriophages that will kill that bacterium. If you consider that the lytic bacteriophage is a virus that causes a fatal disease of the bacterium (and there are now good techniques to isolate, purify and administer phages) there is no reason why it should not work for most bacterial diseases.  While I am not specifically aware of the research that has been done on Lyme disease, I would recommend you google "The next phage" for an interesting story on phage therapy at the Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas and start writing to your elected representatives to demand that phage therapy be made available when antibiotics fail.

TOguy
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/7/2010 8:22 AM (GMT -7)   
If they dont harm you , it wouldnt hurt to try phage , antibiotics have done nothing for me and I have yet to hear anyone who has been cured by them, I do believe they work good in the beginning in getting the germ load down, but later become damaging to your body and immune system , so a runned down body has a hard time recovering my thought, is anyone going to Russia Georgia? do we have a ginny pig?,I will have to do more research on this?

Phdkso, can I ask are you a Lyme sufferer? are you a doctor?,how does the medical world feel about this treatment, doctors?
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


TOguy
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/7/2010 11:15 AM (GMT -7)   
good to hear, sorry maybe I should of been more clear, has anyone with chronic lyme d been cured with antibiotics ,
did she have chronic Lyme?, if caught early antibiotics do the job ,ive heard of that in many cases , but most of us that are not so lucky and have chronic presisting lyme antibiotics dont seem to be doing the job, in result we are stuck looking for alternative treatments, so I would say antibiotics with me have failed so far , I have tried antibiotics for 2 years straight with no luck, some relief but not a cure for me it kills my stomach with yeast and I lose so much weight cause i cant eat properly, and yes I take tons of probiotics,yeast and sugar free diets,etc. ,ive tried everything under the sun, i think antibiotics puts my body at risk and weakens my system, when off them I function alot better
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
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   Posted 1/7/2010 1:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Isn't it superior to support the body's own natural defenses against infection, rather than introduce yet another pathogen into the already over-taxed system??? The body's immune system (& detox pathways) has to clean up after the mess left by the phage treatment anyway, so why give the body more to deal with than the Lyme/coinfections?

When man tinkers with nature, I get concerned...after all, isn't that how some superbugs are created in the first place (lab 257/Lyme, etc.)?

Just my humble opinion...
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


TOguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/7/2010 2:04 PM (GMT -7)   
here is a link to phage center The Republic Of Georgia thats been treating patients with bacteria infections for over 80 yrs , I just like to research and keep an open mind to alternative therapys when the ones we are trying are not sucessful, and with every die off you should detox, I think antibiotics are more toxic then Phage and will be an easier detox to our bodies, I would think so, it should be researched thoroughly before doing
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


TOguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/7/2010 2:06 PM (GMT -7)   
opps the link here you go http://www.phagetherapycenter.com/pii/PatientServlet?command=static_about&secnavpos=0&language=0
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


phdkso
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Date Joined Jan 2010
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   Posted 1/7/2010 5:32 PM (GMT -7)   
I am a retired microbiologist and do not have lyme disease. I have known a couple of people who have had lyme before I retired and before I started researching the literature on phage therapy. I now give talks on three topics: Phage therapy, the academic literature on bullcrap and food safety - if you are interested in looking at some of my stuff go to http://bullcrapcitynorth.blogspot.com.
 
There are several companies in the USA doing phage therapy research - go to http://www.bacteriophagetherapy.info and you can find who is doing what worldwide - the research has been done. Phages do not stress the body as they harmlessly disappear once they have munched up all the available bacteria. Bacteriophages are very common where ever bacteria are found and among other things probably account for why rivers like the Ganges are considered healing - that is where the first hint that phages exist was discovered in 1896 and they have been used to treat infections since about 1920. A quick way to find out more is to get the book - Viruses vs. Superbugs - 2006 - here in Canada it is available in soft cover from the shelf in large book stores.

phdkso
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Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/7/2010 5:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Sorry I forgot to answer how doctors feel about phage therapy - most Western doctors don't know about phage therapy also there is a large literature. Doctors who know about is are impressed - if you look at the article "The next phage" from Popular Science last year you will see the reaction of the doctor from Texas Wound Care Center who is frustrated that he can not use it more -- frankly our attitude towards phage therapy has been described as hubris and russophobia.

TOguy
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/7/2010 5:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, Phdkso, i will read up on your links, sounds like a good treatment to try and i have tried everything thus far, i will do more reaserch, and if anyone knows of any Lymie that has done this therapy would be useful in getting there input on there treatment and if it worked for them, and Phdkso the couple of people you knew with Lyme d do you know if they were cured with Phage? or what did happen to them
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


phdkso
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Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/8/2010 5:39 PM (GMT -7)   
No they did not use phage therapy as it was before I retired and would have been before Dr. Kutter discovered that phage therapy was still used in the former USSR. I have lost touch with the two people who had Lyme disese; however, I met one about 5 years ago and he seemed much better. I do not know of any Lyme patients who have been treated with phage!
 
If you look for Dr. E. Kutter's website and also google Alfred Gertler you can see that she took Alfred Gertler to the clinic in Tbilisi, Georgia - his infection was staph. but he was the first western patient to go over there. Generally speaking patients do not want to advertise when they are receiving such treatment or what disease they have. It is fairly unusual to see a patient allow coverage. Again go to The Next Phage to see another patient receiving phage therapy.

TOguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/10/2010 8:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for all the info, anything else you can provide let me know, or you can email me aswell
 
 
     Respectfully,JB


phdkso
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/10/2010 4:58 PM (GMT -7)   

I don't know if you will be able to get this; but my

Google Web alert for: phage therapy just posted this:

YouTube - Killer Cure - Video about Phage Therapy ,Tbilisi , Georgia
Video about George Eliava institute of Bacteriophage , Tbilisi,Georgia.

Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 1/11/2010 2:20 PM (GMT -7)   
I still think this is risky. How do we know the virus (phage) will die off once the bacteria it attacks is dead? What if it doesn't die but goes dormant instead (similar to the chicken pox virus)? What if it mutates and doesn't die off but instead creates another infection? Western Medicine isn't able to do much against viral infections compared to bacterial infections. And viruses seem very prone to mutation.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Bartonella (clinical dx only), Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, etc.; G-Tube; Currently trying to wean off TPN.
Meds:  Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Singulair, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, Milk Thistle, Ailanthus, homeopathy.


phdkso
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/11/2010 5:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Razzle and JunkYardWilly:
 
We are exposed to bacteriophages all the time. You can isolate them from river water and ocean water. They can be isolated from food and have even been found in vaccines for human use and at times they can cure a bacterial infection naturally - that is in part how they were discovered. Additionally they have been used for nearly 100 years by doctors - please read the scientific literature and convince yourself that phage therapy has much less adverse effects than antibiotics. Perhaps we need to remind ourselves that we all are walking ecological systems of microorganisms and phages are very important to keep natural balance.

LupnerRN
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 350
   Posted 1/12/2010 6:32 PM (GMT -7)   
hello phdkso,
  this is very interesting.  do you know if there's a clinic other then the wound care center that may be using this therapy in the U.S.?
 
I'm researching some new treatment routes to take and this I'm considering.  Unlike the advanced cell therapy.  sounds way too hookie to me and I do quite a bit electral dermal testing and biofeedback (which is helping neuro symptoms quite a bit).
 
Do you happen to recall any of the article names you've read on this?
 
Lisa
 
 
11/07 symptoms start
7/4/08  IGenX LD positive,gluten sensitivity,low magn, low WBC's,+yeast/bacteria/tapeworm/roundworm, EBV,HHV,CMV,Parvo,
7/25/08 started on Biaxin
9/08 IGenX co-infections neg, but probable Bart, Bab, Erhl
11/08  Biaxin,Plaquenil,Cipro, Artemisinin,3 probiotics,Transfer Immune, Bcomplex,MultiVit,omega3,magnesium,
1/29/09  Added: Rifampin 600mg- Ehrl, Lomatium 15dropsBID-parvo, andrographis 15dropsBID (super yuck!)-LD, Alinia-cryptosporidium.   


TOguy
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/13/2010 5:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Razzle said...
I still think this is risky. How do we know the virus (phage) will die off once the bacteria it attacks is dead? What if it doesn't die but goes dormant instead (similar to the chicken pox virus)? What if it mutates and doesn't die off but instead creates another infection? Western Medicine isn't able to do much against viral infections compared to bacterial infections. And viruses seem very prone to mutation.
 
I have read after phages have done there job they just exit your body same way die off exits our bodys from the abx kill, just washes out so no phages stay in your body ,so they shouldnt do any future harm in creating a different strain of resistant virus, from what I have read only, dont know to much about this thearpy yet , but I am reading more on this and contacting there clinic in Georgia


 
 
     Respectfully,JB

Post Edited (TOguy) : 1/13/2010 5:31:00 PM (GMT-7)


phdkso
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/13/2010 5:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Bugs "R" us!
 
Even as microbiologists we often forget that "bugs 'R' us! I recently read in a major paper on antibiotic resistance that stated that normally there are about 5 microorganisms in and on our bodies for every cell that makes up our bodies. When I googled to see how many cells in the body I found estmates of 50 to 100 trillion - so all of us have a lot of bugs. Shortly thereafter I heard a scientist on a science radio show talk about the same subject. The point was made that if we could take away the body cells; but keep the bugs in place and could stain them so they are visible, the body outline would remain.
 
Also, if you google virus therapy, you will see that pahge therapy is only a small part of the field. Viruses have been used to prevent and cure disease for a long time. Think of small pox vaccine - a live virus. Polio and flu vaccines can be live and killed viruses and there is considerable research to use live viruses to treat certain kinds of cancer.
 
Please remember that most classical phage therapy uses lytic viruses to minimize mutations and integration of the phages.
 
As far as I know only the wound care center in Texas is actually using phage therapy in the USA, however, Phage International in California works with the Phage Tharapy Center in Tbilisi, Georgia.

pelagiaeast
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Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 1/4/2014 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I have contacted Dr. Kutter, and from what she told me, it seems that phages have not been used for lyme except (if I understood her correctly) very early in the infection. I think the problem may be that the phages do not cross the blood brain barrier, and to get to the bacteria, that needs to happen. She is in Oregon, btw.
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