I cannot take multi-vitamins...anyone else?

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sebastian72
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 9/7/2010 3:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone.  This is my first post...I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.
 
So every single brand of multi-vitamin that I've tried has brought on a flare up of sorts.  I am tired, my muscles ache, my muscles begin to spasm, and just generally feel as though I am getting the flu.  This happens after usually the third day.  I'm not sure what to make of it.
 
Just some basic background...I began getting sick about 2 years ago, however, was extremely ill about 13 years ago which is when I believe I actually contracted lyme.  Recently (2 years ago when I had health insurance), my ELISA was positive twice and both times I was tested, I was positive on bands 23 (igm) and 41 (igg).  My neurologist called to inform me she believes I am CDC positive.  I am right????
 
Thanks everyone!!!!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 9/7/2010 4:03 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Sebastian!!
Welcome to our forum!!! I'm sure you will find us to be a helpful, caring bunch!! We have a lot of good info here, and have such a wide variety of people here, that you will surely find someone that is going through some of the same things that you are going through!!!

I am really sorry that you have a need to be here, but sure am glad you found us!!!!

You are correct that with those two bands positive, you do have Lyme. Band 23 sensitivity indicates the outer service protein of LD & band 41 is indicative of the tail on the Lyme spirochette - at least that's my understanding.

The flare up each & every time you try to take a multi could be from your body being highly sensitive to 1 or more ingredients in the multi.

Are you seeing, or looking for a Lyme Literate MD(LLMD)?? What kind of treatment are you on right at the moment??

Hope this helps some. I look forward to reading more of your posts!!

May you find peace along your journey to health...
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we will never cease to be amused!!!! :)
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

sebastian72
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 9/7/2010 4:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for the warm welcome.

I was diagnosed February of 09 (just looked it up :)) and have never been on any form of treatment. My health insurance ran out and I wasn't able to afford any other doctor appts unfortunately. I am still unemployed and hope to have insurance soon. I do know of a LLMD in my area so when I am able, I will call. Do you think they'll give me antibiotics or does it depend upon my symptoms?

My hair has been falling out for a few years and I've tried many forms of vitamins to help decrease it. Would you suggest trying vitamins that don't have copper or iron? I've heard that may be an option.

Thanks again.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 9/7/2010 4:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Sebastian,
It's possible that you are having issues with gut motility & absorbtion issues. I discovered that I have those things.Here's one example that is easy to keep track of with a simple blood test - I have now tried most forms of oral supplementing with B12 - to no avail!!! I will need to go to B12 injections when I can afford to, because no matter what I do or what brand I try - my blood levels are still coming back as low on B12.

There are links that we can share with you, should you be interested, where you can apply for reduced or even free abx. I would suggest calling the LLMD that you already know & asking the office staff if there is any way you can make payments or some other arrangement for the financial part of the equation.


There are quite a few of us "Lymies" that have heavy metal & chemical sensitivities, so we get overloaded with these metals pretty quickly. A lot of 'sensitivities' are corrected once the heavy load of toxins has been dealt with by detoxing.

Treatment will be determined by what symptoms you currently live with, as that will tell a doc what infections you are currently dealing with.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the treatment that works for you will be as unique as you. This is not a 'one-size-fits-all' or even most!! These infections attack the weakest point in our bodies first, then spread to the next weakest point & so on.

I do hope this is of some value to you.
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we will never cease to be amused!!!! :)
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

Willowrose
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 699
   Posted 9/7/2010 7:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Sebastian, and welcome! I am glad to hear you will be contacting a LLMD. You are ahead of the game because you have some test results you can share. Often there is a wait for an appointment, so if you have some idea of when you'd be able to go, it might be a good idea to call now to see how long a wait there would be for you to get in.

about hair loss - that was a huge problem for me. Every time I ran my hand through my hair I would come away with a handfull of strands. My hair mucked up the drain in our shower, it was all over the house it fell out so much. What worked for me, and it has caused no adverse effects, is Biotin. It's a vitamin. I've been taking it for two years now and my hair shedding days are over. My hair is now thicker and healthier than it has ever been. Biotin is not expensive, and it can really work.

Rose
I have Lyme; it doesn't have me.

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 9/8/2010 3:50 AM (GMT -7)   
It is possible to be sensitive to the ingredients that have nothing to do with nutrition in a pill - such as fillers, binders, coatings, etc. Also, many vitamin companies use synthetic versions of vitamins or vitamins derived from genetically modified foods (such as corn) and these things are difficult if not impossible for our body to use efficiently.

Also, if one has methylation issues, sometimes the vitamins need to be in a different form (co-enzyme form of B-vitamins, for example) otherwise the vitamins may actually be toxic to the body.

In addition, I have seen posts here about niacin killing Lyme - I don't know much about this, but if the multivitamin has a high dose of niacin in it, then it may be enough to trigger a herx reaction. I know for myself, if I take the megadose of niacin in some multivits, I get very very restless, my whole body shakes (esp. my hands), and I cannot sleep for 2-3 days.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme & Bartonella, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, etc.; G-Tube; TPN via PICC (trying again to wean off the TPN).
Meds:  IV Cipro, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Singulair, Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver, probiotics, digestive enzymes, Milk Thistle & other liver support herbs, Magnesium, Progessence+ (wild yam + essential oils), Moducare, homeopathy.

sebastian72
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 9/8/2010 6:48 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you all for your replies. I did try to take biotin last year with a multi-vitamin. I think I'll give it another try on its own.

Simela
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 552
   Posted 9/8/2010 7:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Sebastian:

My hair has been falling for about 10 years. Not sure if I have had lyme first or if it is a coincidence. A possible cause is thyroid problems. Although I have been on multivit and thyroid med, my hair is still falling.

madrivergirl30
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 9/8/2010 8:00 PM (GMT -7)   
I have always heard/read/been told that you need seven positive bands on a Western Blot to be considered positive by the CDC. I could be wrong about this, but I also thought if your ELISA was positive, you were then supposed to get the Western Blot (per CDC). I could be wrong on that...but I didn't think ELISA was considered "good enough" for CDC positive.

I would check the ingredients in the multi-vitamins; there very well may be a herb (or more than one) that is known to kill Lyme, thus causing a Herx reaction. Check for Samento, Cat's Claw, Stephania, Red Root, Sarsaparilla, and Japanese Knotweed.

Otherwise - if it makes you feel worse, don't take it. If you're lacking a specific vitamin (e.g. vitamin D), just take that alone.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 9/9/2010 3:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Sebastian and welcome!
 
I drink my vitamins and minerals using a great product called Green Vibrance which also acts as an immune booster and detoxifier and so much more.   I buy it at the Vitamin Shoppe (yes, it tastes like grass, really! but I got used to it though one can mix something sweet like stevia to it):
 
 
As Traveler mentioned, detoxing is really important..  I believe that half the battle in getting better is to put oneself on a strict detox regime which you can read about in the sticky thread on top called "New to Lyme?  Start Here!"
 
Detox baths, dry skin brushing, foot baths, infrared sauna, diet, etc. are essential in good health.   When I first heard of detoxing I thought to myself "what??  That doesn't make any sense to me as far as getting better, duh!  But as time went on I learned more and more and finally started a detox regime which I know helped me get better. 
 
No matter what protocol a person is on, lyme bacteria dies (no matter what kind) and what do they leave?  Toxins.  Even if a person is not on a protocol the lyme bacteria dies on it's own also leaving toxins so where do the toxins go?  If not eliminated from the body with the help of a regime, they get circulated right back into one's blood stream and joints only causing pain and more havoc.  
 
People talk about herxes and I believe that herxes are a sign of toxin overload...
 
Learn, read, and ask questions..  This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable people. 
 
Hope this helps,
Denise
It's all about Detoxing Daily, strengthening the Immune System mixed with a dose of Positive Thinking!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being symptom free for over 4 years:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds81S61UvPA
 
Currently taking Estrovera, ProgX (progesterone), Adrenotone Plus, CoQ10, Vitamin B Total, C, Green Vibrance, CALM (Magnesium/Calcium)

sebastian72
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 9/9/2010 4:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the replies.

Deejavu, I will take a look at your product. Thank you!

Madrivergirl30, According to CDC criteria, I am positive. I had two positive Elisas, which prompted the WB tests (I've had two as well). I was positive on 41 IGG, 41 IGM, and 23 IGM. CDC considers a positive result if two of the following IGM bands are reactive: 22-25, 39, and 41.

Thanks again.

Mamyou
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 317
   Posted 9/9/2010 5:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Deejavu - I took your advice some time ago and bought the Green Vibrance from the Vitamin Shoppe. I don't bother mixing it in anything, I just spoon it out and let it dissolve in my mouth. Yes, it's VERY green and I don't recommend this for everyone, but it gets the job done. I am impressed with the number of ingredients and VS has a good discounted price. I have never done well on a multi-vitamin either. I also try to do something that encourages detox every day. Gosh, it's hard trying to fit it all in.

The B vitamins which includes Biotin are supposed to be good for hair loss. I don't tolerate B6 well though. Maybe as Razzle says, I should try the co-enzyme form. Razzle, where do you get yours???

My daughter had significant hair loss during a period of great stress. I'm assuming the adrenals had something to do with it....or as Simela said, thyroid since it works in conjunction with adrenals. Stress??? Are we under stress with Lyme????? Surely not.....

Sebastian, you do what you can when you have no insurance. I pay my LLMD-in-training out of pocket and I'm fortunate that a couple of our stores offer free antibiotics. Do you have that opportunity? Do you qualify for any programs based on income, i.e. the compassionate drug programs or Medicaid? I, too, send you my best and I know for a fact this is a great and informative forum. Just keep reading the posts!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 9/9/2010 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
madrivergirl30 said...
I have always heard/read/been told that you need seven positive bands on a Western Blot to be considered positive by the CDC. I could be wrong about this, but I also thought if your ELISA was positive, you were then supposed to get the Western Blot (per CDC). I could be wrong on that...but I didn't think ELISA was considered "good enough" for CDC positive.





Actually the CDC doesn't endorse any testing methods for diagnosis of LD - " Lyme disease is diagnosed based on symptoms, physical findings (e.g., rash), and the possibility of exposure to infected ticks; laboratory testing is helpful in the later states of the disease." I'm not all that clear on what they mean by that last part, though.

They also have a link on the same page for "ISDA Guidelines for treatment of Lyme Disease" & that will take you to "Chicago Journals" "Clinical Infectious Diseases", where the ISDA guidelines are posted.

Here's the link to the CDC site for LD-
www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/
Blessed are we who can laugh at ourselves, for we will never cease to be amused!!!! :)
May we all find peace along the journey to find healing.
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP
Trav

Sue123
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 12/3/2011 9:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I think you may be experiencing this ... it will get better....Laura (below the blurb is the vitamins I take)

The Herxheimer Reaction is a short-term (from days to a few weeks) detoxification reaction in the body. As the body detoxifies, it is not uncommon to experience flu-like symptoms including headache, joint and muscle pain, body aches, sore throat, general malaise, sweating, chills, nausea or other symptoms.

This is a normal — and even healthy — reaction that indicates that parasites, fungus, viruses, bacteria or other pathogens are being effectively killed off. The biggest problem with the Herxheimer reaction is that people stop taking the supplement or medication that is causing the reaction, and thus discontinue the very treatment that is helping to make them better. Although the experience may not make you feel particularly good, the Herxheimer Reaction is actually a sign that healing is taking place.

Source Naturals Lifeforce Multi Capsules
Minami Omega Fish Oil, 3g
(It's important to take 3g with mental illness)(a cheap fish oil will result in burping up a bad taste, means the oil is rancid; plus, cheap fish oils use cheap fish sources and bad processing which results in making the oil next to useless)
Source Naturals DLPA 1500mg,
helps brain function and if you have associated pain with depression
Source Naturals N-Acetyl Tyrosine 300mg,
helps DLPA get absorbed
Metagenics, Magnesium Glycinate, 400mg
a couple of hours before bed (note to take a good version of magnesium, most stores sell the cheap magnesium oxide which will cause diarrhea)
Vitamin D, (D-Drops), 2000 I.U.
(Most in the Northern Hemisphere are deficient in Vitamin D, the RDA of 400IU is not enough to protect us, recommended to up it to 2000 IU by most doctors. The Source Naturals multi-vitamin has 1000 IU in it already, and I've increased it as it helps the nervous system)
Source Naturals Megafolonic 800mcg
Source Naturals B12 Methylcobalamin
(B12 is best absorbed under the tongue or by injection, extremely little absorbed by pill format)

Sue123
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 12/3/2011 9:28 PM (GMT -7)   
also, read this for vitamin quality...http://www.multivitaminguide.org/
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