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Can a bulls eye rash be the result of something else?

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Posted 1/14/2011 8:53 PM (GMT -8)
I have a bulls eye rash on my right upper thigh. It started back in June or July (not sure of exact date but it was early summer) with a small bruise. The bruise did not hurt and it definitely had a small bug bite and another bug bite next to it. I remember that most because I remember going to pee and looking down at the odd bruise. It was odd because of the flea bite in the center.

I also know that during the early part of summer that when I would walk my dog at the park with friends they were telling me they found ticks on their dogs. They told me to check my little dog whenever we walk. We were even avoiding a certain area that had lots of fallen leaves. The park sets next to a camp ground and mountains in Yucaipa California. It is in the San Bernardino county area. I have only lived here for 5 years. I did not even know what a tick looked like at that time. So the bruise/rash did not make me think anything except "how odd"

It has slowly grown. It is now almost the size of my fist. It is perfectly round. There are no raised bumps or anything. Its as if it is under the skin. I have no itching or pain. It has worried me. My fear was cancer because my dads family has a history of stomach and colon cancer and those cancers also are related to skin cancer. So that is my first thought. When I went researching the oddly circular rash the main titles that show up in the search engine is Lyme disease. When I read the information a light went off but I keep feeling like I'm imagining that it could be that. You know, I don't typically get sick often. My mother says it seems like I've had quite a few flus. I don't really remember getting sick much this year. But she says I got sick in the summer and mostly slept but I did not know why. I also had a stiff neck one day, I remember that. However, I'm known for getting knots in my shoulder blade. My neck usually is not a real problem though. So far if I have been sick I have not passed it along. And again, I don't remember much of that but my mother does remember that I had been sick a few times in the past six months or so. Currently my shoulders ache all the time. When I sleep they hurt to sleep on. They don't feel stiff but just feel very bruised and painful. I'm constantly waking up to get off of my shoulders through the night and I've never had this problem. Like I said I'm active. In fact, I roller skate 3 times a week, walk my dog 3 to 4 times a week and even end up at the gym on occasions. I'm really active so I don't normally have these kind of pains. I just don't know what to think. However symptom wise nothing else is happening.

My main question is this. How long does the rash last? Because I still have a rash and its been about 6 months. So I'm thinking it can't be lyme disease. However the bug bite on the rash and its growth makes me wonder...

I do see a doctor on Tuesday but I'm unemployed right now and I'm a 99er and can't really afford to have something go wrong. I dropped my insurance in November out of neccessity so I'm out of luck. I have not found work because every time I interview for a job I'm told that they can't hire me because I'm "over qualified" and won't stick around long enough for a lower paying job. Its not true but anyways this is my situation. Also, I understand that doctors are cynical about testing for Lyme disease in Southern California... So I'm not sure how far I can go to deal with it if it is lyme or how I will manage to get a doctor to help me out here and test me. I do run a small crappy swap meet business while unemployed as a way of doing something while I hunt for a job but it just barely pays my bills and leaves about $20 to $40 a week in my pocket. If I have lyme then I'm just basically screwed I guess.

Any advice, opinions, or help is appreciated. I know that right now I know nothing and will have to wait and see. But I hate the unknown especially since I now have a reason to be concerned about a stinking rash...

Posted 1/14/2011 11:54 PM (GMT -8)
I should have added pictures but I've never taken them. I did tonight. But the lighting is not very good. I just want opinions before I go into the doctors office. I am in So Cal and I think it will be harder to get a doctor to check for Lyme... but maybe with the rash. I just don't want to risk going through some major illnesses that I don't have to if its just a matter of hitting it with antibiotics sooner than later. Even if time has gone by its at least 6 months and not years.... Thanks in advance for any opinions.

http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/superchix71/Rash/
Posted 1/14/2011 11:56 PM (GMT -8)
This doesn't really answer your question, but the following cnn article describes how to keep the cost of blood tests down:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/08/low.cost.lab.tests/index.html

Best of Luck!
Posted 1/15/2011 12:01 AM (GMT -8)
Thank you. I will check it out.
Posted 1/15/2011 12:17 AM (GMT -8)
A Bull's Eye Rash by itself is diagnostic of Lyme Disease - there is no other disease that can cause this rash.

Since you don't have funds to see a Lyme-Literate doctor, I'd recommend doing everything you can to strengthen your immune system and reduce inflammation in your body (reduce intake of processed and refined foods, increase intake of fresh fruits & vegetables, eat more fish and less red meat, reduce intake of sugar, avoid artificial sweeteners, avoid soda and other "junk food," reduce intake of dairy (yogurt/kefir are ok) and wheat, try to eat garlic, raw pineapple, tumeric, and other foods that are known to reduce inflammation, make sure you are getting enough Vitamin D...two doctors have told us the body uses 4000-6000 I.U./day of this vitamin, and not everyone can get enough from the sun...supplements of Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) are very inexpensive).

Other things you can do: Try hard to keep exercising despite the pain, because I have read and observed that those who can manage to exercise are the ones who get better more quickly from Lyme.

Also, make sure your intake of water (not coffee, soda, etc.) is high...most recommend half your weight in ounces daily, plus extra if you exercise regularly.

Detoxing - make sure your elimination pathways (skin, bowels, bladder) are functioning well - is very important to help deal with the toxins the Lyme bacteria produce during their life cycle and also when they die. The toxins are more likely to cause symptoms than the bacteria itself, hence the importance of detoxing. The thread at the top of this forum for those new to Lyme contains information about how to detox.

Some substances seem to support the immune system and may also kill the bacteria that causes Lyme:

Probiotics (yogurt by itself is not enough; kefir or a good supplement is better)
Coconut oil
Raw Garlic (eat parsley or drink chlorophyll to cut the garlic odor from eating raw garlic)
Cat's Claw (an herb that is not expensive)
Oregano
Thyme
Clove
Lemon
Homeopathic remedy called Ledum (homeopathy is very inexpensive)
Fish oil (or flaxseed oil, but fish oil is a superior source of Omega-3 fatty acids)
Niacin
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Zinc


I know there is more but I'm not able to think of them right now. Basically, if there is anything on the above list you can incorporate into your diet/daily activities, then do so.

Also, it is best to try to replace as much of your diet as you can with organic foods, because the non-organic foods tend to be less healthy and contain more toxic substances (pesticides, etc.) that can take away from your body's ability to deal with the Lyme. Also, it has been proven now that milk from cows treated with Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH, or rBST) contains more of a substance that promotes inflammation in the body...organic certified milk is not allowed to come from cows treated with this hormone.

I also encourage you to read as much as you can about Lyme...there are a lot of ways of dealing with the infection. Antibiotics are not the answer for everyone...some of us have to use both antibiotics and herbs/alternative stuff to get well. And some respond well to antibiotics alone.

Be aware that die-off (herxing) of Lyme can initially cause your symptoms to get worse or cause new symptoms to appear. However, with appropriate detoxing and reducing inflammation in your body, the "herxing" will be less severe.

I hope this helps...take care,
Posted 1/15/2011 12:37 AM (GMT -8)
Razzle, thanks for the information. I was hoping someone would tell me of another situation that does not sound as difficult or time consuming to deal with.

Technically I can sign up for medi-cal in my state but I'm trying not to. I've never needed to reach out to any type of resources... but this economy hit my county and neighboring counties hard. We have about 15% unemployment in my county and a few of the neighboring county. I also have a credit card that is meant for medical purposes that I could tap. I could even get the amount interest free if its over $700 for 6 months. I'm just hoping not to strap myself with more bills and from what I understand Medi-Cal will require that I pay back at a later point when I am stable. I figure eventually I'll find a job since I am starting to see more jobs coming back. It is just the challenge of convincing someone that I'm not over qualified or too good to work.
Posted 1/15/2011 5:27 AM (GMT -8)
Here is a link to some good photos of various Lyme rashes:

LDF -- Picture Gallery

The ones I got back in 1985 and again in 1986  looked like picture

  # 1. 

They were not quite round but had rings like a bullseye with a dot in the middle. 

 Luckily a very ordinary, local doctor....a GP (I don't think there was such a thing as an LLMD back then in New Jersey)  immediately put me on Doxy.  and said I had contracted Lyme.  No blood tests due to classic rash. 

I never had a single symptom, took the abx and was in perfect health until last year.  Now live in Westchester NY....reinfected....unless the 1980's Lyme I had has layed dormant all these past years.   

But I don't think so.  I went to Africa over two years ago and had to take Malarone for a month as an anti-malarial (preventative) and tolerated the medication perfectly--- no herx, etc. 

So I think I was bitten again (no rash that I ever saw) by an infected tick sometime within the last year. 

If so....that must mean the Doxy I took back in the 80's.....really did work. 

 

Posted 1/15/2011 8:12 AM (GMT -8)
Razzle is right -- support your immune system to help your body fight this on it's own to a degree. Detoxing is extremely important and if you have Lyme Disease, makes all the difference in the world in how you feel day to day. It's the toxins left behind by the die-off that make us feel like crap, so we need to eliminate them from our bodies to feel better. It's all explained in the New to Lyme section at the top. I don't ever take the detox baths because I don't have the time or patience for it, but what I do is stop the drain when I take a shower, throw in three big handfuls of epsom salt and about a 4th or 5th of a big bottle of regular hydrogen peroxide, and if I have some on hand, a big tablespoon of ground ginger root -- my daily showers are about 10 minutes long and I just swish the water around while showering to make sure it stays mixed up. When I'm feeling worse, I add some 20 minute epsom salt/hydrogen peroxide foot soaks while on the computer or reading for a few days and that usually gets me back to feeling better. Do what works for you and see if it helps you to feel better.

I honestly don't know if this is helping me at all or if it's coincidence, but I read one person on this forum was taking apple cidar vinegar daily and got well, so I researched it and figured what the heck, it's cheap and can't hurt (and I love vinegar). Of course this person was taking other supplements at the same time, and I don't remember her specific Lyme history -- maybe she didn't even have it for all that long; the longer you have it, the harder it is to fight it.

I also was on a few different antibiotics for 9 consecutive months after being diagnosed and even though much, much better than I was initially, still had symptoms when I finished the antibiotics (there is a whole story to why I went off antibiotics, but won't go into that here because I've talked about it before). I had LD for 4 years before I was diagnosed and have been treating it for 17 months now - better but not gone. As soon as I finished up the antibiotics, I started a teasel root therapy (you can look it up on-line for sources - Lady Barbara's Garden is where I got mine and it is explained in her website), along with supplements. The teasel root didn't cure me either, but I'm no worse after going off antibiotics and I honestly felt like I herxed while on it (did that for 5 months when I finished up the bottle of drops). I've also been on several different supplements at the same time as the antibiotics and then the teasel root, and now the apple cidar vinegar.

While supplements are "over the counter," they are not cheap. What was recommended to me by my 'sort of' LLMD, was treating the adrenal fatigue that I tested for and failed (I take Future Forumulations brand Adrenal C Formula and Super Adrenal Stress Formula; and for over a year also took ashwagandha to support the adrenals); supporting my liver (milk thistle, plenty of water and sometimes lemon water; I also drink many cups of green tea a day); and now that I'm no longer on antibiotics or teasel root, I also take grapefruit seed extract, in addition to olive leaf extract (which I have taken with the antibiotics and teasel root) to fight the LD, in addition to the apple cidar vinegar. When I researched the ACV I was confused about how much to take a day, but came up with 1 tblsp in the morning in a cup of water and the same in the evening; not at the same time as the supplements; some of these things you need to take separately by an hour or two. Some days I just cannot get myself to take the evening dose and I love vinegar, but it's like my body is screaming no. I know I'm not any worse, but I still have symptoms. Seems like things are still slowly getting better -- pain is mostly manageable with Tramadol, but I definitely feel it if I try to skip it -- still feel dizzy at times, memory is still poor - although MUCH better than it was before I was diagnosed and started treatment - and a few other symptoms that are much better, but still show themselves to a degree or come and go. Unfortunately there is no one cure or treatment for all of us, we just have to experiment what seems to be helping and not making things worse.

Another thing you could try at home on your own is getting the book "Beating Lyme Disease 2nd Edition" by Dr. David A. Jernigan. There are a few people on this forum who went this route and got better. If you've seen the Hansa Center posts, he's the doctor at that clinic. Again, his supplements/products are not cheap, but it may be worth your time/money to try this on your own. This is my "big gun" if my cheaper route doesn't do the trick. I have read the book and am ready to buy the supplements. My plan now is to go that route next summer if I don't feel I'm any better by then. I'm at a point now where I can function just fine and it's worth it to me to try the apple cidar vinegar/supplements to see if it actually works, but if I get worse or it just stays the same, I'm ready to spend the money.

Good luck!
Posted 1/15/2011 10:57 AM (GMT -8)
Well I do plan to use a doctor. I just pobably won't go to a "Lyme-Literate" doctor. I have a small savings and I have credit cards and medical credit cards and I could appy to Medi-Cal. I just was not wanting to. Hopefully it is just an odd round rash.... and not lyme... That would be ideal for me!
Posted 1/15/2011 11:14 AM (GMT -8)
Hi Cali-girl!

Welcome to our forum!!! I am really sorry to hear that you have the bulls-eye rash, as Razzle said, that's all you need to verify Lyme Disease.

Should you decide to see a LLMD (Lyme literate Medical Doc) you can email either myself or the other Lyme Disease Moderator, Cajungrl for a few suggestions.

Not to bring more unhappy news, you could also be infected with what are known as co-infections, since there seems to be some difference in what you remember & what your Mom remembers. Some tick-borne infections that can "travel" with Lyme Disease are Bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia, & Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.

As you have seen with the really great posts that have been made already, we can help you understand not only what is going with your body, but some things to do to. Of course we will do our best to answer every question you

have, but it would be best for you to do a bunch of reading on Lyme & other tick-borne infections. One of the best places to start is the thread at t he top of the forum titled "New to Lyme?...Start Here!", as it is full of great info that the members here put together.

You might be able to get at least one round of abx from your doc on Tues. just by showing the doc the rash & explaining you believe that you have Lyme Disease. If you can, the best to get would be Doxycycline at least 200 to 300 mgs a day, for at least 6 weeks - if your doc will do that.

A couple of the biggest things that I feel people infected with Lyme and/or co-infections need to realize is the need to detox (Razzle & Tala pretty well covered that), and that this is a very serious disease that doesn't fool around. Please listen to what we are saying here.

I do hope that we have been able to answer some of your questions so far. I'm sure that we all are looking forward to getting to know you better through your posts as we exchange info with you!

Trav.
Posted 1/15/2011 11:34 AM (GMT -8)
Cali-Girl,

I too am in CA....lived most of my life in Southern CA although I'm now on the Central Coast.

A round rash, whether or not there is a "clearing" in the middle, that slowly expands over time, associated with neck pain and other odd aches and pains sounds like CLASSIC Lyme disease.

I'm not a doctor, so cannot diagnose you, but I don't believe there is any other rash that expands like that and can stay with you for many many months. It's called erythema chronicum migrans.

Yes, Lyme rashes can hang around for a very long time. The tick that bit you might have been smaller than the period at the end of this sentence....the nymphal (immature) ticks are very small indeed.

Please click here for pictures and click here for the story of Sarah Olson, who says that her bullseye rash remained with her for 7 or 8 months.

I do so hope that I'm wrong and that you DON'T have Lyme, but Razzle and Traveler are correct, the EM rash is enough for the diagnosis of Lyme, without any bloodwork. Current blood tests for Lyme are very inadequate....at least 50% of people who actually have Lyme are missed due to falsely negative blood tests.

Good luck...and please keep us posted!!
JoAnn

P.S. if you email me, I can send you a list of all of the LLMDs in CA. Just click on the little envelope under my name in the left panel.
Posted 1/15/2011 12:42 PM (GMT -8)
My pics were not very clear.  It was taken in the evening and I took in myself which is a challenge. But the rash does not have clear skin in the middle. However, it is light pink almost white in the middle and slightly darker ridges around the edge. The ridges are thick in appearance. My mother and I worked out on Wed night at the gym and then took a swim. When I got out of the pool she was tripping out on it. The lighting in the gym was really good and maybe activity made it brighter or something. However, the ring was really dark and the middle looked like it was almost clear... but typically it actually looks light pink in the middle and expanding to a darker color at the edges.
Posted 1/15/2011 1:28 PM (GMT -8)
Lyme rashes can take on various appearances and aren't always totally clear in the middle. I've heard of some who have had a bruise-like rash instead of the classic bull's eye.

And some other herbs you might find helpful include Astragalus, Andrographis, Stephonia, Japanese Knotweed, Teasel, Sasparilla, & Nettles (great for joint pain). There are others, also, but choose one or two and stick with them for a few weeks to see if they're helping...

Take care,
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