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Methylation

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Lyme Disease
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Razzle
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2007
Posts : 4415
Posted 1/18/2011 1:59 PM (GMT -7)
What is methylation?

Methylation is a process in which a methyl group (usually derived from Folic Acid, Methylcobolamin (methyl-B12), and other nutrients) is attached to a molecule of something else.

Methyl (or Methylation) Cycle Genomics is the gene expressions that govern or influence the efficiency and effectiveness of the process of methylation.

Why is methylation important?  Methylation is involved in the detoxification of byproducts of daily metabolism of various substances - including amino acids, ammonia, perfumes, alcohols, etc.  The methylation cycle converts more dangerous substances into substances that are less dangerous and more useful or more easy for the body to eliminate (usually via bile from the liver, and/or urine via the kidneys).

If a person has certain genetic variants that affect their methylation cycle, they may be unable or less able to efficiently detoxify these byproducts of daily metabolism (and byproducts produced by Lyme / coinfections).

Glutathione is a substance made during the methylation cycle.  The problem comes when someone has a genetic variant that causes the production of glutathione to speed up and put more pressure on down-stream metabolic cycles (other detox cycles) than what they are designed to handle.  The problem is compounded when other genetic variants reduce the effectiveness or efficiency of these downstream detox cycles.

SAMe promotes the production of Glutathione because it contains Methionine.

For more information about Methyl Cycle Genomics, see the following link:

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

Take care,

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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 1/18/2011 2:21 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks for that great explanation, Razzle!! I could actually understand what you said!!

In your experience & understanding, is it possible that someone who can't seem to absorb enough B-12 (shows on the low side every blood test) would do better with Methyl B-12?
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Razzle
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2007
Posts : 4415
Posted 1/18/2011 4:27 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks - glad I was able to explain it well enough. The whole thing is extremely complex...I've been working on trying to understand it for years now, and still feel like I've barely scratched the surface...

about the B12...

Absorption of B12 is very complicated. I don't seem to absorb it at all orally, apparently, so have found getting shots to be much better.

Methylcobolamin may absorb better for some individuals. I find I get side-effects from cyanocobolamin, so I do much better with Methyl-B12.

For B12 to be absorbed from food, first there has to be enough stomach acid and protease enzyme present to break the B12 apart from the protein (B12 food sources include meat, milk, eggs, and fortified cereals; there are no plant sources, though some species of fungus/yeast may also be a source).

After the B12 is in "free-form," it is then combined with Intrinsic Factor (also produced in the lining of the stomach). This B12-IF molecule then gets absorbed through the gut wall in the lower part of the small intestine (the lower ileum). Certain enzymes break apart the B12 from the IF for transport through the gut wall, and then certain other carrier molecules bring the B12 to the liver.

B12 supplements only get to skip the stomach acid/protease step...but must go through the rest of the steps for absorption.

Things that can impair oral B12 absorption include:

*Low stomach acid
*Poor enzyme production (pancreatic insufficiency)
*Inflammation in the stomach (preventing Intrinsic Factor secretion)
*Inflammation in the small intestine (lower ileum)
*Surgical removal of the lower ileum (such as in those who have had surgery for Crohn's Disease or other bowel disorders)
*Weight loss surgery can sometimes cause problems for B12 absorption
*Deficiency of any of the carrier molecules needed to bring the B12 through the gut wall or carry the B12 to the liver for further processing or storage
*A diet high in sulfites - B12 binds directly to the sulfites
*Poor dietary intake of foods rich in B12 - this is an issue for Vegetarians/Vegans especially
* Small Bowel Bacterial Dysbiosis - the bacteria may use the B12 instead of letting it pass by to the lower small intestine for absorption
*Alcohol (chronic high consumption)
*PPI medication (reduces stomach acid)
*Diabetes medication
*HIV/AIDS
*Diseases that cause malabsorption (Celiac, Crohn's, etc.)
*Pancreatitis
*Gastrointestinal Dysmotility
etc.

Conditions that increase one's need for B12:

MS (B12 is needed for repair of the mylen sheath)
Lyme (I've read that the bacteria uses up B12)
Neurological Disorders

Shots may be needed for the following scenarios:

Surgical removal of the lower small intestine (Crohn's, etc.)
Weight loss surgery
Pernicious Anemia (autoimmune inflammation that specifically targets Intrinsic Factor producing cells in the stomach lining)
B12 Dependence (a poorly understood condition in which a person seems to either have difficulty maintaining sufficient blood levels of B12 despite adequate oral supplementation)

Additional info can be found at the following websites:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12/

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminB12/

http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/full/105/3/978
https://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=c5987b1e-add7-403a-b817-b3efe6109265&chunkiid=101008

http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/b12deficiency

I hope this info is helpful...take care,

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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 1/18/2011 5:21 PM (GMT -7)
Thank you so very much Razzle!! I have been trying to figure out which b-12 supplement to use, because as I said earlier, I just don't seem to absorb enough by food & regular B-12 supplements that I can find.

There is one health food store in my area that was carrying the Methylcobolamin. Now that you have provided such a wonderful post explaining that, I feel confident enough to give it a try !

Thank you!!
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MoralAnimal
Regular Member
Joined : Oct 2010
Posts : 134
Posted 1/18/2011 10:59 PM (GMT -7)
Sweet! This is exactly what I needed to know. I've been wondering about methylation and afraid to dive into the subject alone. thanks Razzle!! I'm going to add this to the list of I have been compiling on detox & metabolism problems.
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diaba
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2009
Posts : 175
Posted 1/19/2011 12:38 PM (GMT -7)
Does this mean that taking supplemental glutathione would be bad for someone with a methylation system problem?
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Razzle
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2007
Posts : 4415
Posted 1/19/2011 1:03 PM (GMT -7)
Diaba,

It depends on what specific methylation genetic variants one has, whether or not glutathione would be a problem... I'm sorry I can't be more specific, as this stuff is quite complicated and each person's genetic variants may affect them differently than someone else with similar variants, due to the influence of other factors (other genetic and environmental factors, presence of Lyme/other chronic infections, etc.).

Take care,
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diaba
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2009
Posts : 175
Posted 1/20/2011 12:51 PM (GMT -7)
okay, thanks.

diana
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peacesoul
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 2446
Posted 9/14/2013 6:15 AM (GMT -7)
Razzle, I was just coming on here to talk about Methylation in the realm of Lyme Disease, but I see you already did it.
Awesome

It's crucial for anyone who herxes on anything to work on this

so bump
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TheAnswersYouSeek
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2013
Posts : 2543
Posted 9/15/2013 10:26 PM (GMT -7)
Yes yes yes.. You herx, you need to dig deeper into this stuff, l methylfolate and methyl b12 have been the biggest game changers for my health.
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Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2012
Posts : 2610
Posted 9/16/2013 4:16 AM (GMT -7)
P-5-P is another one that might help, it's in the pathway also and is often deficient or a hindering factor.

The "cyano" in cyanocobalamine is derived from cyanide. Just something to think about. Methylcobalamine is more bioavailable for many and the new salt form of hydroxocobalamin is now available in capsules. I couldn't tell the difference between the hydroxo and the methyl even though the hydroxo is supposed to be more bioavailable. I take the methylcobalamine when I take B-12 supplements.
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rowingmom
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2011
Posts : 1652
Posted 9/16/2013 8:48 AM (GMT -7)
Magnesium deficiency could be another problem.  I wonder if this is the reason why epsom salt baths are good for herxing/detoxing?  I had thought magnesium mainly addressed inflammation and stress.

http://gotmag.org/mg-deficiency-affects-mthfr-really/

If you are having real problems with herxing and detox, you need to understand the methylation cycles, any MTHFR deletions you may have and how to properly treat them first. You can run into trouble by supplementing with one or more methylated B's while having blockages in other pathways, or by supplementing with doses that are too high.

There are some good explainations at this site:

http://mthfr.net/

The site has a forum as well.
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Razzle
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2007
Posts : 4415
Posted 9/16/2013 9:13 PM (GMT -7)
Good info here:

http://www.dramyyasko.com/resources/autism-pathways-to-recovery/chapter-6/

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

http://metabolichealing.com/michael-s-blog/metabolic-gateways-cbs-gene-mutations-and-glutathione/

http://mthfr.net/methylation-inhibited-by-candidas-toxin/2012/09/08/

http://www.dearpharmacist.com/2013/08/08/2394/
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mikeb2308
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2013
Posts : 138
Posted 9/16/2013 10:17 PM (GMT -7)
Magnesium oxide is what you usually get when you go to your local drugstore, and from what I have read, it is not as easily used by the body as any magnesium ending in "ate".
I use Magnesium Malate that you can find online in the big health food shops.....You might pay a little more but it 'might' be worth it......Lets all get better!!!
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