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Doxy and sun reaction, mouth ulcers

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PennyPru
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/2/2012 1:52 PM (GMT -8)
I've been on doxy for a few weeks. Yesterday I was in the shade but some sun broke through and has created a rash on my arm. It doesn't hurt, but it does tingle. Today I feel AWFUL again and I'm wondering if somehow the sun has triggered something else? I am developing a cold sore on the corner of my mouth and now have small ulcers under my tongue.

Wondering if mouth ulcers are a herx, a side effect of doxy, OR just coincidence.

(I learned my lesson about NO direct sun.)
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Summer3
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Joined : Nov 2011
Posts : 1020
Posted 8/2/2012 3:57 PM (GMT -8)
I never had mouth ulcers with doxy. Do you have a LLMD? I think you should call him/her if you do. I had the terrible sun reaction as well on my hands. I couldn't avoid going in the sun (I work outside) so I had to start using zinc and titanium dioxide sunscreen with THICK face makeup layered on top of any exposed skin.
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beachlover89
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Joined : Nov 2011
Posts : 265
Posted 8/2/2012 4:13 PM (GMT -8)
I have been on Doxy since April.  My skin would get blotchy (no pain) after 2-3 mins in sun and I had mouth sores too but they didn't last long.  :-)
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LupnerRN
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Joined : Sep 2008
Posts : 350
Posted 8/2/2012 4:42 PM (GMT -8)
OMG, I will NEVER use doxy ever again!!!!

Even the heat in the full shade was too much for me. When I was in the sun it felt like hot skillets were on my skin. And I got so many side effects from doxy it was horrible! I don't remember if I had any canker or cold sores, but I can see it happening with doxy as a side affect. And don't forget, we all have herpes!

I have recently read up on doxy and Lyme, and they're thinking that doxy is really only helpful in the beginning stage of the infection, right after being bitten. I would suggest if you have to be outside at all, switch to minocycline. You don't get the sun issues. I've heard of people doing really well with Tigecycline.
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PennyPru
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Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/2/2012 6:02 PM (GMT -8)
I see my LLMD on Tuesday. I'll call her office tomorrow and check. I was recently bitten (in may) so I'm being treated for current bite AND previous suspected infections of the past. Other than this sun problem and typical herx stuff, I've not had probs with doxy. I was supposed to start zithro any day now, but I'm a bit intimidated with the mouth ulcers. I don't want to confuse symptoms even more so I guess I'm going to have to wait on the zithro.

Is mino and Tigecyline the same family as doxy?
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SteveFunk
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Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 7
Posted 8/3/2012 5:43 AM (GMT -8)
I also had sores in my mouth and severe esophagus irritation from doxy, but not quite as much sun sensitivity
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beachlover89
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2011
Posts : 265
Posted 8/3/2012 9:19 PM (GMT -8)
odd..I had esophagus irration before any antibiotics...I thought maybe a symptom of lyme???
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Dowa
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Joined : Sep 2008
Posts : 1120
Posted 8/4/2012 11:10 AM (GMT -8)
LupnerRN: You stated "and dont forget we all have herpes." I just tested positive to HSV1, how is this connected to Lyme? Thanks~

 

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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36542
Posted 8/4/2012 12:19 PM (GMT -8)
Lyme Disease lowers our immunity, and most people have been exposed to some form of herpes by the time they reach adulthood. It is estimated that 97% of people will test positive for the Epstein-Barr virus by the time they are adults. Epstein-Barr is a herpes virus that is responsible for Mono, a highly contagious viral infection that can stick with you for a life time, and can make a person so ill that they require a hospital stay.

My doc told me that cold sores are due to a lack of L-lysine in the body and to take 500 mgs a day until they were gone. I also know that for me, they indicate when I need to be extra careful as I catch a lot of colds and flues when I have one - because of the lowered immune system.
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Dowa
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Posted 8/4/2012 3:07 PM (GMT -8)
The strange part is I do not have cold sores, just a very high positive for the HSV1. That was my first question, why the high titers without cold sores. I was told you can be a carrier of the virus, but it does not seem like your test result would be so high if that were the case. Not sure.
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PennyPru
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Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/5/2012 9:27 AM (GMT -8)
Thanks for all the feedback. FEw more questions: Does doxy lower a person's immune system? I am pretty familiar with my herx symptoms, but I'm feeling like the abx is making me feel bad, beyond herx. Also, I'm noticing "out of it" feeling mid-afternoon. Not out-right brain fog, but blah. I'm wondering if the abx could actually be messing up my adrenals. Anyone know if this could be the case?

My mouth sores and cold sore is nearly gone. Would lower dose of doxy, like 300 a day instead of 400, be effective? At 200 I didn't have any sx, but when I stopped for a few days, I rebounded.

I see my LLMD on Tues. and I've not yet started the zithro. Could cysts make me feel bad, or is it only the spirochettes that cause activated problems?
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Summer3
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Posts : 1020
Posted 8/5/2012 9:32 AM (GMT -8)
When I started getting completely "out of it" in the afternoon and overwhelmingly exhausted to the point that I needed to lie down or leave work, my doctor added adrenal support meds. I'm on Doxy/Rifampin. I think the Rifampin is known to mess with adrenals. Doxy might as well.

I don't think the cystic forms can make you feel badly until you start opening them with a cyst-med. I prefer higher doses of doxy because the lower doses as well as doxy by itself converts Lyme into the cystic form and I don't want to have more to deal with later.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36542
Posted 8/5/2012 10:36 AM (GMT -8)
Pennypru,
I would suggest that you try laying down during that 'blah' time whenever you can. It might just mean that you need to be resting. I have found that even just laying very, very still with my eyes closed for 25 minutes can make a major difference for me. It's worth a try!!

Like Summer3, I wouldn't lower the dose at all - it will only lead to longer treatment times, as well as the possibility of increased damage that can be done by these infections.

Are you detoxing? The increased symptoms that you are experiencing can be dealt with by using effective detoxing methods. They are being cause by the toxins released by the dying bacteria that are now circulating in your blood stream. Detoxing is the only way to deal with this issue. It may take a while before you notice much improvement, as some of us have sluggish or blocked detox pathways because they've been overloaded for so long. You may need to detox more than you have been if you are detoxing now, or even increase the amount of time that you spend detoxing. Not knowing what all you are doing right now makes it hard for me to recommend something.

All too many of us have issues with our adrenal glands and our thyroid, thanks to these infections! If you haven't already had your checked out thoroughly, then I would suggest that you start by informing yourself with information. Here is a really great site for that:
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
They cover adrenal issues as well, since they frequently go hand in hand. There are even self testing that can be done easily and accurately at home.

And of course, please talk with your LLMD about all of this on Tues, and be sure to let us know how your appt goes!!
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PennyPru
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/5/2012 10:47 AM (GMT -8)
LOL!!!!! I was a HUGE participant on NTH yahoo and the thyroid forum years ago, when I was super sick. (Do we know each other???) Thyroid was one of my probs that actually healed. (Now I understand that it was probably Lyme related.) My thyroid is pretty balanced right now and I no longer have Hashi's antibodies. Pretty amazing, but true! Now my adrenals are another matter.

Thanks so much for the other great info (((Traveler))). I guess I'm just not sure what to expect or accept as Herxing and healing with this treatment. You are probably verrrrrry accurate, that I'm dealing with the effects of die off. It's just so differenet than the first week of doxy.

I've been doing baths, but not daily, as I feel sooooo dreadful afterwards. I'll try to increase the baths this week and see how it goes.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36542
Posted 8/5/2012 12:18 PM (GMT -8)
I don't think I was ever on a Yahoo group for thyroid issues, but I'm 'Traveler' or 'Artraveler' everywhere I go, so if you remember that, you'll know where I've been - LOL! Although I also don't post much on any other site than here. I can't even remember where all I've gone for help on the different things for dealing with these infections!

That's really wonderful that your thyroid has healed so well!! I didn't know for sure that it could be done, so you just encouraged me a great deal!!! My Grandmother had her thyroid removed and no one knows the reason, so once I started having thyroid issues, I figured that would most likely be the final outcome for me as well - but now with your news, I feel like it may not have to come to that! WOO HOO!!! turn

The first week of abx for most people are pretty uneventful -although it wasn't for me. It kind of gives a sense of false security. Then the toxins have a chance to really start backing up because they can't get out fast enough, and some people have quit treatment because of it. Just hang in there, you'll get through this too.

Would you like some links to articles about toxins creating the herxes? I"d be happy to link them for you if you are interested. I promise that I don't just go around making stuff up, I've searched for information and come up with articles and papers stating the things that I tell others. That was the one thing that bothered me the most when I was a newbie to all of this -

everyone had their own version of what to do and why. I could tell that they were listening to their LLMD's - which was a good thing, but each had their own opinion on these things, so I decided to go find independent research and articles that could back up why I should do this or that. If it's only something that has worked for me, I almost always say so, or if it's just something that I've heard that works for others I always try to say that as well.

As for the detox baths, since you are 'feeling' them so much, I think it would be wiser to just use the foot soaks when you add in more. For me, when I first started using the detox baths, they gave me 3 day migraines every time, as my detox pathways were operating so poorly. Of course that was after a full year of abx without detoxing even once since my LLMD didn't know about the need, so there was a whole lot of junk backed up, and that's why I "push" detoxing. It quite literally saved my life.

Sooo now that you know more about me than you ever wanted to (giggle!! turn), I should go back to the foot soaks. Just use about 2 - 2 1/2 cups of Epsom salts and about 10 oz of peroxide to a half full 15 liter (or so) dish washing tub, or whatever you are using. Be sure the water is only a bit warmer than luke warm, as the higher temperature water will have it's own die off

that's triggered - no need to add more to what you are already dealing with! Also don't leave your feet in the water for more than 7 - 10 minutes until your reactions have settled down. Then you can add either warmer water, or add a bit more time, but not both - at least until your reactions to detoxing go away more. You may even want to forgo the actual baths and go just to the foot soaks for a while.

Each time you are in a herx, the healing slows down equally to the severity of the herx. In other words, the harder you herx, the slower you will heal. That's why they are also known as 'healing crises'. Your body is in crisis mode, only doing what is absolutely necessary as the crisis rises in severity.

I hope this helps some!! :-)
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PennyPru
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/5/2012 12:42 PM (GMT -8)
Wow Wow WOW! All that you have shared here helps me so much, Traveller. Thank you!!!! It makes so much sense. I suppose I thought I'd be feeling better than I am NOT worse. Especially since it seems my herx sx have changed.

On the thyroid stuff, I want to share that my thyroid was really terribly off. I had hash's antibodies, swollen thryoid, went from hypo to hyper like every other month. Up 10 lbs, down 10 lbs. I was on Armour. (are you??) and that helped me til I went hyper. At the time I felt like my thyroid was dying. I had NO idea the cause at the time, b/c I was also dealing with a host of other problems that I now have come to endearingly refer to as "Lyme" LOL! My adrenals gave me panic attacks that started in my sleep and landed me hours later in the ER, as the "surging" wouldn't stop until I had meds.

The best things that helped my thyroid heal seemed to be removing all fluoride from my life (toothpaste, drank reverse osmosis water only), avoided goitrogenic foods (strawberries, brocolli among others) and I also used a lot of organic coconut oil, celtic sea salt. I gave my thyroid my thoughts of love and healing and asked that whatever was attacking my body, to literally be loved to death. (I didn't know I was loving Lyme.)

Somehow my thyroid created a new norm and the last scan I had showed no hashi's damage. I'm not on any meds for thyroid and my Basal temps are normal. I had a successful pregnancy since then, and did not need thyroid meds during my pregnancy.

Oh Sweetie, it is SOOOO possible for you too. For me the thing that has not normalized since my illness is my blood pressure, perhaps to do with my kidneys or adrenal system. LLMD is hopeful this will improve when treating the Lyme and coinfections.

So good to connect and share stories here. I'd LOVE and welcome any links to research you have about toxins and herxes. I'm very informed by research and really appreciate the science. Also, do you have research about what exactly happens in the 30 day cycle, and with the die off? As part of my daily routine I want to visualize the bacteria as they are (i.e. what form, cyst, spiro or biofilm) and help them die in my mind's eye. Do they have to shapeshift or do they die in their current form?

Another qusetion: Do we WANT to herx? I mean, should I be happy I'm feeling so crappy? LOL!
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36542
Posted 8/5/2012 3:04 PM (GMT -8)
LOL Pennypru!Thanks for your kind words and your words of support! They are greatly appreciated!

I am currently taking a Homeopathic medicine for my thyroid and my adrenals. I was diagnosed with Hashi's and my adrenals were on the verge of shutting down when I first started treating them. I buy the meds over the counter, so it's really easy on me when I need more. I've been having great success with them also - my adrenals are healing - ever so slowly, but they are healing! I don't really know about my thyroid though, as I have so many other things still going on, but I do know that they aren't as bad as they were when I was trying to use Synthroid. Your words of encouragement are not wasted! I now have a lot more hope that they will heal when it's time! So thank you so much!

I removed all forms of fluoride from my diet about 7 years ago, we have well water, so no fluoride there either! I have never heard the term "goitrogenic foods"!!! LOL!! So I'm off to go look it up and check it out! Hubby is on warfarin, so things like broccoli are served only on occasion, and I've been avoiding soy for a while now as well. I still eat gluten, but it's pretty restricted as well. I didn't realize that those things could possibly interfere with the thyroid function as well though!! I will continue to read more about this so that I can be more knowledgeable about this now too! Thank you again!!!

As for the herxing, no it's not good to herx frequently. My doc would rather I not herx at all!! A herx is also known as a healing crisis. The body doesn't heal well at all when it's in crisis, so the stronger the herx, the bigger the crisis in the body, resulting in even slower healing. So it only makes sense that a person not want to herx - besides the whole feeling like crud stuff!!! Do a search for "Healing Crisis" and do some reading to learn more.

This are two of the best - in my opinion- articles written about what causes the herx reaction in Lyme Disease:
/docs.google.com/document/d/1OQh291RcezoAirjbSUcWx0QdkAQ_n_UW1fwI8QE3bpk/edit

www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm

Here are some others:
lymebook.com/blog/the-recovery-process/mold-and-lyme-toxins/

www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/victoriabowmann/Cleansing%20Neurotoxin%20Overload.html

This one isn't quite as clear as the others about this, but still a good article: www.jemsekspecialty.com/lyme_detail.php?sid=10

For more just use the search terms " toxins causing symptoms in Lyme disease", then sit back and get ready to do some reading!! LOL!!!

For the articles on the cycles of Lyme Disease, I'll need a day to gather my thoughts and find them - I hope that's okay! I can tell you that they do that shape-shifting thing all the time!! **Off the top of my head** Anytime the bacteria feel threatened they can go into the cyst form, they can also hide in biofilms for extended periods of time (generally in the intestines & mouth), waiting until it's safe to come out again. The only way abx can kill the bacteria is when they are in the spirochete form in the blood, at least that was the latest when I last looked. If anyone has newer information, please let us know about it and provide a link to the info!!!
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PennyPru
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/5/2012 5:13 PM (GMT -8)
Traveler, Thanks for the articles. I just read most of them. Really interesting, esp Dr. Bowmann's.

Hmm, if they go into hiding in mouth, could they literally cause ulcerations ... I wonder? I was thinking about these weird bumps behind my bottom row of teeth, that I've had for the past few days, and now are nearly gone. The strangest things ... made me wonder if they could be the bacteria pushing out of me somehow.

If a detox bath makes me feel worse, is it creating a herx? OR is it actually releasing the crud that makes me herx if the first place? If it's the latter, I'll take a bath tonight. I'm not afraid to be worse before I get better, IF it's for some light at the end of the tunnel. OR is the bad feeling after bath counter productive to our healing? I guess that's my question. I did foot bath tonite and a big glass of lemon water and felt a little better. Bad thing is when I herx, my bp goes up pretty high. (My LLMD knows this is a problem for me.)

Thanks for looking for info on the cycles of Lyme, whenever you have time, no rush. I haven't added the cyst buster yet (zithro), as I'm hoping to get to "ok" before adding another thing to my list confusing my sx even more.
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Lavrose9
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Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 1
Posted 8/18/2012 5:21 AM (GMT -8)
Yea. Doxi burned and scarred my feet while I was wearing flip flops, you cant be in the sun at al!!! Weird! Plus it so taxing on the body, I was so hungry or throwing it up, you HAVE to take it with food. I was taking 2 100mg pills. twice a day, 400mg a day. made me so sick, i had no energy, felt like I had morning sickness 24/7, messed with my hormones, I was a hot mess on Doxi, HOWEVER, it pretty much cured my infection, so 3 months of doxi was worth it. I gained weight on it tho, was hungry all the time, messed with my stomach so bad, and was either feeling nusious or hungry ALL THE TIME. Horrible stuff but it works..
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PennyPru
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 149
Posted 8/18/2012 12:39 PM (GMT -8)
Sounds like you were herxing pretty bad. I have too, but I've been on the same dose you were on now, for a month. Funny you say that about weight gain... I've gained too and had NO idea why. Probably the doxy hunger.

blessings to you and so glad to hear you recovered from Lyme!
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summer16
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 1388
Posted 8/18/2012 10:11 PM (GMT -8)
Traveler, after reading the first article you recently posted describing the ammonia levels I am now wondering if it is harmful to eat alot of protein and vegetables. I was just diagnosed with a yeast infection and have started the Candida diet. Wondering if this is not a good idea??????

Thanks for posting these fascinating articles......on to more reading.

Patty
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