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Cistus Tea is essential for biofilm breakup, according to Dr. Klinghardt of Washington State!!

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Lyme Disease
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Heathersdad
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 1159
Posted 1/10/2013 8:22 PM (GMT -7)
Samjones,

I appreciate your clarification. There is no problem here! I have sometimes posted things that others have called me on. I was forced to give a clarification if I had misstated something.

Iron sharpens iron. I appreciate your openness to pursuing truth. Great job.

I actually agree with your criticism to some degree. Was his claim a result of scientific research or was it his personal opinion based on clinical experience only? I believe that it was probably based on his personal experience. If so, his claim is a very bold one.

At any rate, I am enjoying and learning things from your posts.

Don
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TICKLEDPINK
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 914
Posted 1/11/2013 5:54 AM (GMT -7)
Hi Rori.

No,it's one of the few things that I haven't tried.

My point was, that this company is a reliable source of herbal medicine here in Germany.

Tickled
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Razzle
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2007
Posts : 4415
Posted 1/11/2013 10:45 AM (GMT -7)
Some interesting links re: Cistus for Lyme, and Biofilms...

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/cistus-incanus/

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/incanus-as-biofilm-buster/

Not saying I agree with Buhner's position on biofilms, just providing this info here as a contribution to this great discussion...
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 1/11/2013 11:05 AM (GMT -7)
So I've been watching this conversation as well - interesting and I really appreciate the fact that everyone is staying civil!! Woo hoo!! Giggle.

I happen to agree with what Buhner has to say in the two links wonderfully provided by Razzle, but I'm no researcher. I think that this is only one small aspect of the many things that needs to take place in order for those with these infections to heal. Of course we are mainly -although not exclusively - talking about those with chronic infections.

I'm also one who questions everything - no matter who it comes from. People make mistakes. It's that simple in my mind. I think it's a healthy way for us to know that we are doing all that we can for our health, that we aren't relying on someone who doesn't understand what we are living with. Maybe I'm just "gun shy" now after all the doc's that mislead/ignored me and my symptoms for so many years, but it's how I am now.
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opugirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 3922
Posted 1/11/2013 11:24 AM (GMT -7)
IT is interesting! Thanks Razz for posting those links. I'm beginning to really admire that Buhner guy - he is so smart! I also got his updated book for herbal remedies and it is AMAZING. It is like the herbal Bible.
I am lucky to be where I am. There is a seminar next week on bee venom. I'm soooo excited!
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samjones
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2013
Posts : 355
Posted 1/11/2013 9:21 PM (GMT -7)
Opugirl... Bee venom, that is something very interesting and something I know nothing about, other than the fact that I am allergic to it. If you go, I would love to hear about what you learn and all about it. Please share!!
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kathleenta
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 111
Posted 1/11/2013 10:42 PM (GMT -7)
I feel compelled to join this particular discussion.  I believe all of us are on this forum because we're either sick, have been sick or love someone who is/has been sick-sick in ways that for a variety of reasons too often mystify and/or polarize medical professionals = many of whom are more comfortable with a more typical presentation, a more typical treatment and a more typical successful response. This is not us, is it?  We don't have to look too far here to read post after post of people who have had horrible experiences with health care folks, including being called crazy or worse.  Too many of us have been ignored or insulted or patronized or ridiculed, by so called health care professionals. Rather help us look for real answers, they're most comfortable making US the problem because then they can wash their hands of us and not have to spend any energy on things that don't fit in their small comfortable boxes. 

So as a result, we are too often left to question our own sanity, question what to do and who to turn to.  It can be too exhausting and feel it's too risky to keep putting ourselves out there - realizing we're not likely to find who or what we need easily.  Who amongst us has not/does not feel fearful, angry, and downright desperate at times?  I certainly do.  And because of that it is so understandable and easy for us to want to find everything and anything we can to help make us better.  And unfortunately, that makes us very vulnerable to those folks and companies who can use our vulnerability and desperation to their own financial advantage.   I don't know how we readily identify those people or places on our own.  It seems we can best share our experiences and thoughts and keep our minds and hearts open so we can hopefully help each other.  

I can share a bit of my own recent personal experience - as it does relate. I've learned that it's very important to not assume that just because someone is an LLMD for example, that what they say is gospel.  We can't assume that because someone is considered a guru, that they always has our best interest at heart. Being considered a guru often comes with an ever increasing ego and that can often go hand in hand with narcisism.  It is very important to be brave enough to indeed try and find out who is profiting from the products he/she touts as being good/needed, etc.  I didn't ask such questions. I can blame it on my trusting that because someone is highly visible in the Lyme community, I didn't feel the need to question.  I thought that surely being a leader meant that someone else was monitoring such things.  I know, I was naïve. I also think my lack of initial questioning was due to my fear of never getting better and due to my desperate hope this might be the person or the treatment or the g" that would help give me and my loved one our lives back.  I thought that because I saw and heard that this person was "one of the very best" -and therefore what they recommend or say is true - surely this was being monitored by someone who knows far more than me. That doesn't seem to be the case.   I thought all of us - including LLMDs and their touted clinics were in the same boat with the same goal- getting us well as ethically and respectfully (including financially) as possible.  I've learned that's not always the case.

I learned the hard and expensive way that it's better literally to breathe and take time to ask, do some real research, etc before deciding to blindly "go for it" in large part because someone renowned is recommending or touting something. The effect for me has been that I am more cautious (which can also add to the fear ---- what if my doing research on a doctor or clinic or protocol, for example makes my treatment even more delayed?!).  The additional effects are that I am outraged that someone could be so arrogant as to think that their word is gospel and woe to anyone who might have questions about it or them. I feel sad for myself and for others - I doubt I am alone with this kind of experience. It can be hard to talk about - none one wants to feel they were "played" especially when finances are so much a central part of our treatment and care. It's hard to not feel foolish.   A few hundred or thousand dollars gone to me (and I image for most of us here) does not have the same meaning and consequences as it does for someone whose making a great deal of money as a guru in the field. 

I can choose to stay stuck in this negative experience and its emotional and financial consequences or I can choose to move on, learn and share.  That is what this post is about.  And I will say despite all of this reality for me, I am still hopeful.

I think this forum is a gift - to share what we've experienced, to pose questions, to say what we think, what we know and don't know, what we believe, what we hope and what we want.  We can provide those things to each other through this forum and thereby truly help each other.  And of course, each of us can "take what we like and leave the rest" with any post, including this one of mine.  We don't all have to agree (thank goodness!) and yet, I think we owe it to ourselves, to each other and to our united dreams of getting well to share as honestly and best we can.  Questioning is not a bad thing.  Anyone competent should be welcoming questions.  If questions aren't welcomed, that's a big red flag for me now.

I hope this all makes some sense.  I've come through an unfortunate experience and I'm trying to learn from it so I can use it to help me navigate this often maddening journey of healing and hopefully help someone else to not go through what I did. May we all get well soon.    Thank you all, Kathleent

 

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samjones
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2013
Posts : 355
Posted 1/12/2013 11:55 AM (GMT -7)
Kathleenta,

Where were you when I wrote my post the other day?? That was exactly what I was trying to express when my word of "scam" came out instead. You hit the nail on the head with your term of "ego," and that was the word I was searching for while I was writing, just couldn't nail it as well as you did. Very well written, your words touched my soul. It is exactly the way I feel.

On another note, and back to the tea.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828122
Here is a study that states, "C-reactive protein was mostly affected by Cistus and decreased significantly in the treatment group." Something very promising for us with high inflammation. However, I found another study.

http://www.uop.edu.jo/download/research/Theses/Hiba%20Hani_Dec_2009.pdf

This study describes many different types of Cistus (we are particulary looking at Cistus Incanus). This study discusses the quality control of Cistus Incanus in pharaceutical preparations (not as a tea). Many state that the tea does not have any side effects, however on pg 17 of this study, I believe it states something very different. I am not a doctor, so I would love if someone could comment on it to tell me if I am incorrect. It discusses the negative, "deleterious effects of flavan-3-ol on human health." Flavan-3-ol is found in Cistus Incanus. It states,
"Many reports showed the deleterious effects of flavan-3-ol on human health including activation of procarcinogens, reactive-oxygen species formation (pro-oxidant activity), hemorrhage formation, initiation of hepatotoxicity, alteration of pharmacokinetics of therapeutic drugs, increased
estrogenic tumor formation, mutagenicity, modification of plasma biochemistry, instigation of gastroenteritis, antinutritive activity and weight loss.
(Nagao et al., 2007; Aron and Kennedy, 2008).

None of that sounds good to me, especially if there is a way it can alter the way we absorb our meds, or any of the other stuff there is going on there, especially with our immune systems already weakened. Like I said, I maybe reading this inceorrectly, so insight or opinions are welcome and urged.






"C-reactive protein was mostly affected by Cistus and decreased significantly in the treatment group."
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nan777
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 343
Posted 1/13/2013 3:35 PM (GMT -7)
Interesting thread and discussion!

Some thoughts on "proof" and cures, etc.

From my years of seeing docs and reading countless articles and many books....I think this disease is not well understood. No one seems to have a cure that works for everyone. And doctors know different things and ways to treat. And they are learning more all the time. In my opinion, innovation is absolutely welcome.

This is especially apparent to me from reading Dr. K's articles over the years. He continues to learn more and share. And the disease and bugs seem to be shifting.

Doctors can only do the best they can with what they know. And that body of knowledge is increasing all the time.

In a sense, we are on a cutting edge of illness and treatment.

I have not encountered anything that was a "scam" in my opinion...except if it looked like a scam online (like a product claiming it cured the disease), I moved on. One product just won't do it. If something looked promising, I researched it. Same with doctors.

However, I have tried a lot of remedies and protocols. They did not "work" in one sense as I am not yet well. However, I will NOT say they are not beneficial. They may "work" for someone else. They may have worked for me in a sense that my body did in fact get better but not cured, and what is now called for is a different approach. (My current doc said that I must have had good treatment, or I would have been a lot sicker than I was when I got to him).

I am grateful for the treatment I have gotten to date.

Bodies change and doctors know different things on how to treat. They can only do what they know.

I would be wary of calling any approach something that "does not work" or a "scam" just because someone did not get well from it. Or it is new. Many people get well from different routes. Doctors are trying new things. Thank goodness they are trying new things!!

It requires research, knowledge of one's body and in the end one's best judgment and even intuition on what to do.

All that being said..if there are indeed products or doctors out there who are pretty clearly all about money or have secondary investment motives, then by all means it is helpful to know this.

May we all find what we need!


Samjones: I saw on a previous post on the CFS board that you wanted to ask me some questions...I am happy to chat on email. Just email me. I did not see your post for a few weeks on the CFS board.
Nan
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Justme4508
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2012
Posts : 674
Posted 1/22/2013 7:13 PM (GMT -7)
I brought the tea, does anyone know the best way to brew it?



I did use google translate, but am still a little confused.

Thank you.
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Ilexis
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2013
Posts : 43
Posted 1/23/2013 2:15 AM (GMT -7)
Hi, I've been reading about cistus here. Interesting conversation.

I'm particularly interested in the claim that it makes you repellant to ticks.

I was looking up sources and found several places that sold cistus essential oils. I wonder, has anyone heard of using the oils for the same purpose?
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TICKLEDPINK
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 914
Posted 1/23/2013 3:35 AM (GMT -7)
I've just read the instructions in German,which I can translate for you.

By the way if you all ever need anything translating from German to English,I'm your woman, lol

10 grammes of tea in water that has freshly boiled but cooled down slightly( it must not be on the boil)

Leave it for 10-15 minutes

If you don't wish to drink it all in one go,sieve and keep at room temperature.

Hope this helps

Tickled
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Justme4508
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2012
Posts : 674
Posted 1/23/2013 4:47 AM (GMT -7)
Thank you, any thing that helps break up the biofilm I think it's worth trying, I brought it from Germany, took a while to get here , but so much cheaper .

I have done some of my own research , and I have found positive things about the tea and Lyme disease, so I am giving it a try.
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bucci
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2006
Posts : 1477
Posted Yesterday 12:48 PM (GMT -7)
Hello
Haven't posted in ages.
I googled cistus tea and saw this thread.

After 10 minutes of reading through all these long posts
I never did get to read anyone's actual
Experience drinking this tea.

The first person Gia posted it as a product
recommended by Klinghart and all I saw after that
was posts of doubts and opinions on anyone who recommends
products and on and on .

If there was one person who did actually post about
their either good or bad experience with the
Cistus tea I missed it because my eyeballs were crossing
reading through all the opinions.

Is there anyone who drank Cistus tea?

This means .. ONLY post a reply if you have
drank this tea.. Please.

Bucci
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Justme4508
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2012
Posts : 674
Posted Yesterday 4:59 PM (GMT -7)
I did drink the tea, and I will tell you my experience.

One after drinking the tea for two days I threw up some worm like bugs( sorry I have to be honest here).
Also it gave me a horrible belly ache, so I stopped after about a week. It is very strong even brewed properly and I feel for me at this time, my body can't take it.

I found a much lighter Tea , called Flor Essence - its a gentle detox, and it's much better on my body. I do think I need to detox my body before I could move on to the Cistus tea again.

I am in enough pain, and do not need to add to it with stomach issues.

justme
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wellbeautifulspirit
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2012
Posts : 671
Posted Yesterday 6:27 PM (GMT -7)
I was just drinking cistus tea. It doesnt taste bad, and doesnt taste that you are going to enjoy it.

I got it thinking it may break up the bio films. when you are soo ill,
so desperate as sometimes I am, to get well

forking over hunderds of dollars, or close to it, alot of money to get well
when you have a chronic illness that with no set cure

that what happened to me, I got the tea, in hopes....

I dont regret it. It may help , but nothing negative comes from it, so it's all good. I ordered it from germ. and I also ordered this tea infuser cause I wanted something from germany. ( great grandparent from there, so attatchemnt to the country) so now that silly little tea infuser thing, is a prized possesion of mine.

but yeah, when you are soo ill, with brain fog too, it is best to do your best
and use discerment when choosing products to try to get well.
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multifacetedme
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 1598
Posted 10/23/2016 10:23 AM (GMT -7)
After reading Traveler was giving this a go, and finding an article by Julie McIntyre about the value of cistus tea, decided to order some from Germany and integrate this into my protocol once my month of no herbs/supplements are over.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 10/23/2016 10:36 AM (GMT -7)
Do remember to titrate up slowly!!! LOL! I did one week of only one cup (I was nervous about it, LOL!), and then I tried to do a week of 2 cups a day and that's when all sorts of mayhem started up in my body.

You are supposed to use the same tea bag (or loose tea, which is what I have), 3 times to get all the goodness out of it (each time it's brewed, it supposedly brings out different components of the tea). And even though I would follow this, still when I got to 2 cups a day, it was really quite surprising what happened, and I'm still not sure what all happened, other than it felt like I was being overwhelmed with bacteria (due to the number and severity of symptoms) and so I chose to stop the tea, then about 2 weeks later, I chose to stop treatments for a bit and to only detox to see if I could get things back under control.

It proved to be a wild time for me, although I've read where others didn't find it particularly helpful. This could be due to my having had these infections for so many decades now that I had tons of biofilms built up all over my body, or something else.
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multifacetedme
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 1598
Posted 10/23/2016 2:24 PM (GMT -7)
WOW! What a story Traveler! Where did you order yours if you don't mind me asking. I am not sure how the billing works with this German company. I might not be able to get it. Yes. I imagine, since you've had it in your system for such a long time it probably brought bacteria out hiding in places even they thought they were hiding in. ha, ha, ha. I think your notion that you have a lot of biofilms built up makes sense.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 10/23/2016 2:32 PM (GMT -7)
The Cistus incanus tea I had was gifted to me by someone that I met that had some extra. All the printing is in German and I can't read a lick of it! LOL! I had to search online for instructions!! Ha ha ha!

It's also known as Rock rose tea. I've seen if for sale on Amazon and I know that one member ordered some from a company known as Donkey Island: www.donkeyisland.gr/eng/cistustea.html
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multifacetedme
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 1598
Posted 10/23/2016 2:35 PM (GMT -7)
Ooo thank you!!! I'll see if this transaction manifests. Hoping someone contacts me about how to pay. If not, I'll try donkey island just cause I like the name and how cool is that? Gifted tea! I want to try and grow it. Rock rose grows super well in our region.
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tonesg
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2009
Posts : 58
Posted 10/24/2016 8:00 PM (GMT -7)
There are good prices on the tea at the following link. I bought 1lb of organic tea on e-bay from one of the companies for about $20.00 with free shipping from Poland. If anyone can answer, to use the tea as a tick repellent, do you drink it or spray it on?

http://www.always-review.com/searcher/Cistus%20Incanus%20Tea
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PeteZa
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2015
Posts : 9729
Posted 10/24/2016 8:11 PM (GMT -7)
tonesg, you drink it.

www.fransussman.com/cistus-tea-or-how-to-become-repulsive-to-ticks/
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AK
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2016
Posts : 248
Posted 10/30/2016 7:23 AM (GMT -7)
Has anyone used Cistus tea and found that it is a good tick repellant?

Also wondering if anyone has any other strategies for making humans less attractive to ticks? We all know the pants in the socks routine but is there anything that people have t devised to make us repulsive to begin with?

Do healthy people ever take a drop or two of Byron White Formua or some of the Buhner stuff every day during tick season as a prophylactic?

I know a naturopath used to prescribe some homeopathic lyme drops to be taken every day in the summer. I don't know how well that worked but just looking for a strategy for a friend who is outside all the time.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 10/30/2016 7:35 AM (GMT -7)
Buhner suggests the use of astragalus as a preventive, as well as Japanese knotweed and cats claw.

buhnerhealinglyme.com/basics/recommendations-for-those-without-symptoms/
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