Nutramedix (Cowden) Houttuynia vs Zhang HH capsules for Bartonella

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skBM
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Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 330
   Posted 4/7/2013 10:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Does anyone know of a dosage comparison of these two products? The former product is liquid drops, the latter is pills.

Heathersdad
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 1159
   Posted 4/7/2013 10:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I have no idea as to the answer to your question. I hope that if somebody knows the answer that they take the time and effort to provide an answer.

I presume that you are considering changing from one to the other?

Don
We are older parents and Heather is our only child. She became so sick and debilitated that we thought that she was going to die, and everything looked so hopeless and bleak. However, God answered our prayers, and used the healing hands of Dr. J. at the Hansa Center to more than restore the health of our precious daughter. I have a moral obligation to help others that are likewise suffering!

skBM
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 330
   Posted 4/7/2013 10:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm taking the tincture, I just want to know how much I'm getting when compared to the capsules, to know if I'm getting a high enough dose. I might try the capsules.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 4/8/2013 10:35 AM (GMT -6)   
They are actually the same herb. I used Houttuynia for my Bart infection - best thing I ever did!! I used it for 6 months and never have had the symptoms return in a year after treatment ended!

I used the raw herb and made my own tea with it, so I'm not sure about the dosages of either one you are considering.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

opugirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 3890
   Posted 4/8/2013 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
I get tea from wawaza.com. In japanese it is called dokudami tea. S. Buhner says your can use the powder from 1stchineseherbs which is super cheap 1 lb for $20

briggadoon
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/28/2013 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been taking generic Houttuynia Cordata capsules that I get from ___________. They work if anything better than the high price version. They also have houttuynia tincture, so maybe they can advise you on comparable doses.

Post Edited By Moderator (Traveler) : 4/29/2013 6:16:51 AM (GMT-6)


Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 4/29/2013 7:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Briggadoon,
Welcome to our little community! I have to ask - you've chosen to only post in the three threads that mention Houttuynia and are "advertising" where you got your herbs without saying much else. Are you connected to that site in any way?

We don't allow any advertising here, so I'm editing your posts until I hear from you.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

briggadoon
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/29/2013 7:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm not advertising anything. I see you do not edit out specific brands that are very expensive, only posts that inform people with bartonella that the same substances are available far more economically in generic form. This is a herb, not some patented, lab created medicine. My MD prescribed Houttuynia which has helped my bartonella. I think people should know these products are HOUTTUYNIA CORDATA. It is available as houttuynia capsules and houttuynia tincture. It is obvious this forum is edited as a shill. Obviously you are not editing out the name brands, just the places where generic houttuynia can be bought for a fraction of Z__not edited, or N__not edited. People specifically asked for sources, and you are editing out the generic, low price sources, and leaving the ones you are apparently a shill for.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 4/30/2013 12:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Briggadoon,
I'm really sorry that you don't agree that we need to keep spammers out of this community. I had ever reason to be suspicious, since all you did was come on and tell people where to buy something.

Had you come on here, introduced yourself, told us a little about yourself and then casually told us where you get your herbs, it would have been a very different reply from me.

One of my jobs as a Moderator (for 2 years here) is to keep spammers out. I could have just reported your posts to Admin as a spammer and had them delete your account, but something told me that you weren't just another spammer, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

It would be nice if you would kindly extend that back.

To be honest, the cheapest place anyone could get Houttuynia would be from my Practitioner, but that would be advertising - and touchy as I'm a Moderator - and had you taken the time to read more of my posts, you would know that your accusations are baseless.

I'm so sorry that you were so offended. I do hope that you will understand that Moderating isn't the easiest thing to do and takes up hours of my day every day that I'm here. I'm now healed and could easily be off doing other things, but I choose to stay and help those that wish to receive help from me - but no one is required to like me.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

skBM
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 330
   Posted 4/30/2013 7:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Traveler for your work moderating this forum. I'm glad to hear you are better now.

Brig, I wouldn't mind seeing the source, if you are indeed not just here to sell something.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/1/2013 3:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for your kind words, skBM!
I'm sorry for editing out information that could have helped you! It's tough to read minds on here! LOL!!

I do know that 1st Chinese Herbs sells the whole herb, if that's what you are looking for.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/18/2013 9:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Phantasmagoo,
I don't have any scientific articles for you, only personal experience. I have used only Houttuynia (whole leaf herb) to take care of my Bart. I had almost all the symptoms (all but 4), and they weren't mild.

After using the medicinal tea for 6 months, I haven't had any of those symptoms return - and that was over a year ago(treatment was from June to January in 2012). I've had tons of stress in my life for the first three months of this year (my FIL moved in with us and then succumbed to the effects of Alz.), so I figure if anything was going to come roaring back into my life, it would have by now.

As you said, there is very little literature on this herbal treatment, but that in no way means that it doesn't work.

I do agree with you on this: So it is hardly a backdoor “co-infection.” Perhaps Lyme is the “co-infection.”

Just my thoughts on this subject!
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/18/2013 10:15 AM (GMT -6)   
"Yoi ichi-nichi" - LOL! I had to look that up!!
Are you in Japan or do you speak Japanese?
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/18/2013 10:42 AM (GMT -6)   
My doc and I read that as well, but still chose to try the Houttuynia as she knows Chinese herbs best. I'm not saying that there is no other way to heal from Bart, only that, despite what others are saying about it, Houttuynia healed my Bart infection in 6 months.
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/18/2013 11:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Very interesting links, Phantas! Thank you! A lot of information there!

I did notice that the first four links all referred to Houttuynia's affect on viruses, and the last two referred to houttuynia's affect on lung cancer (always nice to know!), but none of them refer to it's bacterial fighting properties. Since Bartonella is a bacteria, and Houttuynia was the only treatment I had for Bartonella, I believe that it has to have bacterial fighting properties as well - or I wouldn't have healed.

However, I did find this:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981565
"These data suggest that HCWE is stable and beneficial in the treatment of bacterial infection including intracellularly replicating pathogens and may solve antimicrobial misuse and overuse."

en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-SYYD702.024.htm
"Pharmacological researches show that Houttuynia cordata has the functions of antibiosis,antivirus,increasing immunity and anti inflammation."

/www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cpb/54/7/54_7_936/_article

Oh boy!! I think I hit the 'mother load'!! LOL! Here is a study that declares: " Both results indicate that HCT fractions inhibit cell wall synthesis as like as β-lactam antibiotics" (Penicillin, Amoxicillin, Ampicillin, Carbapenem, & more)
link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13206-010-4312-8.

Thanks for the incentive to get me to look some more! smilewinkgrin
Treating with Acupuncture, Traditional & Modern Chinese Medicine & Western Herbs. Before tx, I had all but 20 of the symptoms on the "Master Symptom List" for Lyme disease.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence" - Dr. Edwin Masters, great LLMD & researcher -RIP

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on the blue envelope under my screen name

PrayingForAMiracle
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 5/18/2013 4:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm still taking Houttuynia tinture, Chronic tonic from Misty Meadows and the Lyme defense tea they sell. Those items pretty much cover everything.
I have fought Lyme disease for over 10 years, I have been bedridden quite a few years. I continue to pray for a cure.

opugirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 3890
   Posted 5/19/2013 12:27 PM (GMT -6)   
phantasmagoo I think I *heart* you. Thanks for the info.

skBM
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 330
   Posted 5/20/2013 10:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, thank you!

I searched "Yu Xing Cao" on the maxnature site and there are several products.
Could you email me which one you were referring to?

krissi
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2015
Total Posts : 120
   Posted 7/18/2015 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Here is so much good info on HH found by Traveller so i just felt to bumb this thread.
My journal


http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3412117

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4893
   Posted 1/3/2017 5:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Bump ...nmedics seemed weaksauce ...anyone try zhang hh? I have dryed herbs but ive heard not to boil ?

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/3/2017 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Blue, are you asking if we are not supposed to boil the Houttuynia? I was told to bring the water to a boil, then remove the pot from the heat, THEN add the houttuynia to the 'just boiled' water - so no boiling the water while the herbs are in it.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4893
   Posted 1/3/2017 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks trav ..anyone try hh pills

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1709
   Posted 1/3/2017 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I've used Zhang's HH2. They are very potent and I felt they worked really well.

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4893
   Posted 1/3/2017 9:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks jrspf ...whats the differnce between hh and hh2 ?

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/5/2017 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
I found this:
"Original HH Capsule contains 90 mg new sodium houttuyfonate in each capsule and one day three capsules make the daily dose of 270 mg of new sodium houttuyfonate. The HH2 Capsule contains 180 mg of new sodium houttuyfonate, the daily three capsules makes the daily dose of 540 mg per day. This double dose HH 2 Capsule may have stronger anti-infection especially anti-bartonella effects. At the same time the possible Herxheimer's reaction strength may also be stronger. For people already responding to the original HH Capsule well, you don't need to switch to the HH 2 Capsule. Only those do not respond to HH Capsule well and need increased dose can move to the higher dosage and try the HH 2 Capsule."

www.personalconsult.com/articles/newlymeformulations.html
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)
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