Open main menu ☰
HealingWell
Search Close Search
Health Conditions
Allergies Alzheimer's Disease Anxiety & Panic Disorders Arthritis Breast Cancer Chronic Illness Crohn's Disease Depression Diabetes
Fibromyalgia GERD & Acid Reflux Irritable Bowel Syndrome Lupus Lyme Disease Migraine Headache Multiple Sclerosis Prostate Cancer Ulcerative Colitis

View Conditions A to Z »
Support Forums
Anxiety & Panic Disorders Bipolar Disorder Breast Cancer Chronic Pain Crohn's Disease Depression Diabetes Fibromyalgia GERD & Acid Reflux
Hepatitis Irritable Bowel Syndrome Lupus Lyme Disease Multiple Sclerosis Ostomies Prostate Cancer Rheumatoid Arthritis Ulcerative Colitis

View Forums A to Z »
Log In
Join Us
Close main menu ×
  • Home
  • Health Conditions
    • All Conditions
    • Allergies
    • Alzheimer's Disease
    • Anxiety & Panic Disorders
    • Arthritis
    • Breast Cancer
    • Chronic Illness
    • Crohn's Disease
    • Depression
    • Diabetes
    • Fibromyalgia
    • GERD & Acid Reflux
    • Irritable Bowel Syndrome
    • Lupus
    • Lyme Disease
    • Migraine Headache
    • Multiple Sclerosis
    • Prostate Cancer
    • Ulcerative Colitis
  • Support Forums
    • All Forums
    • Anxiety & Panic Disorders
    • Bipolar Disorder
    • Breast Cancer
    • Chronic Pain
    • Crohn's Disease
    • Depression
    • Diabetes
    • Fibromyalgia
    • GERD & Acid Reflux
    • Hepatitis
    • Irritable Bowel Syndrome
    • Lupus
    • Lyme Disease
    • Multiple Sclerosis
    • Ostomies
    • Prostate Cancer
    • Rheumatoid Arthritis
    • Ulcerative Colitis
  • Log In
  • Join Us
Join Us
☰
Forum Home| Forum Rules| Moderators| Active Topics| Help| Log In

LLMD's more often hinder than help

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic locked
1 2
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
profile picture
peacesoul
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 2446
Posted 9/15/2013 8:18 AM (GMT -7)

bbrian said...
Traveler,I don't know if your referring to me or not with the comment with this latest post of yours but I will guess you are. You deleted one of the greatest advocates for herbals because you couldn't handle his opinions. He was an independent thinker and valuable poster the likes of which we have never seen. Its assumed you threw him off because you were pushing your herbal concoction and he called you on it. We all have opinions and we should be able to be heard without threat. You are an incredibly valuable asset to this forum but so was he and you eliminated that voice by deleting all his posts after he suggested you were pushing product which you still promote in each and every post.

As far as what treatments to use to control these bacterial infections its pretty clear that the majority of the medical community believes the first line of offense is antibiotics for 21-28 days after which opinions vary. Someone who is recently bitten can certainly choose to start a herbal treatment program right away but it takes a lot of time to figure out which one to choose. How can someone who is so sick decide on Buhners, Crowden, Zangs, or Klinghardt just to name a few. Each of those herbal protocols is very involved, multi stepped and time consuming when you don't have time at that point. So I am an advocate for main stream medicine over the course of the first month if its discovered right away.

I am still disgusted that magoo / shoobie was deleted because he was unlike anyone else I have read here. He took each and every one of those protocols apart and studied each component in them. Then gave us his analysis of each for our review. He worked out the individual herbs that were most effective in each protocol for each type of infection. The work on his part to get well was herculean and lost forever to this forum.

I'm sorry I missed this poster you're referring to.

Trying to decide on any of the Lyme protocols is tough. But I am also against the "one size fits all" herbal protocols. No one, and I repeat, no one heals at the same pace and no detoxes at the same pace, so how on earth can these protocols work for everyone. They actually don't.
Buying a protocol off the net without any medical guidance by seeing an MD or Naturopath makes little sense.

My patients are the people who have done the LLMD, the abx, the on line protocols and they come to be exhausted. Yes of course it's a money saver to "do it yourself" healing, heck I did the "do it yourself' when I was so sick with Lyme, I couldn't get off my couch for 9 months, but all the "do it yourself" did was make me broke and kept me sick cause I didn't know about detox and drainage and proper diet for chronic illness.
Now being a LLNP, oh how I would have healed differently back then.


Abx are a personal choice, but people need to know this, taking months or years of abx harms the organism more than helps. If I was reinfected with Lyme today, you can bet your butt I would be back on abx, but in chronic stages, they just are not as effective as other forms of healing.
profile picture
bluebyyou
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2006
Posts : 1952
Posted 9/15/2013 8:22 AM (GMT -7)

bbrian said...
Traveler,I don't know if your referring to me or not with the comment with this latest post of yours but I will guess you are. You deleted one of the greatest advocates for herbals because you couldn't handle his opinions. He was an independent thinker and valuable poster the likes of which we have never seen. Its assumed you threw him off because you were pushing your herbal concoction and he called you on it. We all have opinions and we should be able to be heard without threat. You are an incredibly valuable asset to this forum but so was he and you eliminated that voice by deleting all his posts after he suggested you were pushing product which you still promote in each and every post.

As far as what treatments to use to control these bacterial infections its pretty clear that the majority of the medical community believes the first line of offense is antibiotics for 21-28 days after which opinions vary. Someone who is recently bitten can certainly choose to start a herbal treatment program right away but it takes a lot of time to figure out which one to choose. How can someone who is so sick decide on Buhners, Crowden, Zangs, or Klinghardt just to name a few. Each of those herbal protocols is very involved, multi stepped and time consuming when you don't have time at that point. So I am an advocate for main stream medicine over the course of the first month if its discovered right away.

I am still disgusted that magoo / shoobie was deleted because he was unlike anyone else I have read here. He took each and every one of those protocols apart and studied each component in them. Then gave us his analysis of each for our review. He worked out the individual herbs that were most effective in each protocol for each type of infection. The work on his part to get well was herculean and lost forever to this forum.

Bbrian, that member was banned because he could not follow the rules, not because Traveler couldn't "handle his opinion". He was given warnings, he decided to ignore the warnings and he decided to continue his behavior, and, subsequently, he was banned. He chose not to comply with the rules of the site. The loss of his site contributions is, sadly, is his own fault.
profile picture
Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 9/15/2013 8:30 AM (GMT -7)

peacesoul said...

Traveler said...
Opugirl just posted that " I became almost asymptomatic on antibiotics BEFORE taking herbs/homeopathy" - so we have a current member that has stated healing due to abx.

One thing to keep in mind here - both herbal and abx therapy are discussed on this forum and will be allowed.. No one gets to push one or the other on another member for any reason. Treatment protocols are a very personal choice and needs to remain this way on this forum. Personally, I could argue for both sides, even though I healed on herbals only and abx made me quite ill.

There are many reasons why someone couldn't heal on abx or herbals alone. Let's be very careful to not attack anyone for their choice of treatment here!

This thread is not about abx vs herbal use. My opinion on abx varies and I would never advise a patient to get off or get on them. That is their choice and I work around it. My personal and professional opinion is abx does not heal lyme in chronic stages.

Peacesoul, I was not directing my post at you. A different poster asked "have you seen members get well using just antibiotics? ".....and it wasn't even Bbrian.
profile picture
tonesg
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2009
Posts : 58
Posted 9/15/2013 4:03 PM (GMT -7)
Here we go again. Blame the victim, your sick because your getting  some emotional benefit from of your "illness", i.e., it's psychosomatic, go after lyme literate MD's, make broad apsurd geralizations with implied or semi-veiled attacks on the very existance of bacterial, infectious lyme disease and the sanity, emotional maturity, self-awarenesss, integrity of those who have lyme and those who treat them, i.e., LLMDs. Sounds like it's coming right out of the lyme deniers playbook.  If anyone had the chance to read the New York Times article of a couple of weeks ago, "deconstructing lyme," you might recognize a similar, and in some cases identical, line of thought among both the long term chronic lyme deniers who were interviewed for that article, and the arguements and positions being posted here, though here, on a lyme forum, the proponents of denying the reality of chronic infection induced lyme try to massage or mask their disinformation in a wash of new-age, psychobable mumbo jumbo. I can't fathom what might be going through someone's head who has the moxy to come onto a lyme forum and assert that a significant (or all?) number of chronic lyme sufferers are suffering because they are in fact getting an emotional benefit from being labeled a lyme patient, which indicates, apparently, that if one can eliminate the emotional benefit then one can eliminate lyme, in effect, once again, it's all in your head.  

The fact that some are still taking this position, that is, casting doudts on the physical infectious bacterial nature of lyme and co., and are trying to undercut what little help lyme patients are getting from MD's, and attack lyme MD's who risk their licenses, their careers etc., to treat lyme patients, and engage in these attacks on the integrity of lyme sufferers, all this,  in spite of the now well developed and abundent information about this epidemic, it's nature and reality, which includes lyme diseases primarily physical infectious basis, and are doing this in a lyme forum, is simply dumbfounding.

 

Post Edited (tonesg) : 9/15/2013 5:42:06 PM (GMT-6)

profile picture
Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36318
Posted 9/15/2013 4:33 PM (GMT -7)
Uhm, Tones, although I am truly sorry that you got that offended at this thread, I don't think anyone here denies that chronic Lyme disease exists.

I believe the main point here is that for chronic Lyme what should the treatment be, abx or holistic/natural/herbal. My point in this thread is that all will be talked about and that members are free to choose their own path, and not put down in any way for their choices.
profile picture
peacesoul
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 2446
Posted 9/15/2013 5:02 PM (GMT -7)
Tone just loves to argue....Tone if you dislike my views, you have the free will not to respond. You are one angry soul.
profile picture
opugirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 3922
Posted 9/15/2013 5:12 PM (GMT -7)
Sorry, I'm shutting down this thread. Can we please play nice??? We have been doing so good for awhile!

~beth

If you have any issues about the locking of this thread please feel free to email me.
✚ New Topic locked
12

More On Lyme Disease

CBD And Pain Management: Is This Supplement Right For You?

CBD And Pain Management: Is This Supplement Right For You?

10 Steps For Healing Well With Chronic Illness

10 Steps For Healing Well With Chronic Illness



HealingWell

About Us  |   Advertise  |   Subscribe  |   Privacy & Disclaimer
Connect With Us
FacebookFacebook TwitterTwitter InstagramInstagram PinterestPinterest LinkedInLinkedIn
© 1997-2021 HealingWell.com LLC All Rights Reserved. Our website is for informational purposes only. HealingWell.com LLC does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.