Lyme in the Tendons

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LymePickle
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 10/25/2014 3:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Can anyone else relate to feeling tendon pains?

And also what did you do to treat it if you did?

I think some of my residual symptoms are actually related to lyme being in the tendons. I'm having some medium level tendonitis today... Mainly in the arms and legs. Unfortunately I'm reading lots of stuff saying treatment here becomes a bit difficult do to limited tendon blood supply. Pretty much the only thing I can find is that macrolides are the best to treat these kinds of areas. I think children have an advantage here as there is better blood flow and their tendons are still growing.

I was taking biaxin and I had the issue really bad for 3 weeks when I first went on the macrolide last time and then it seemed like it cleared and stopped. Now the pain in my tendons is coming back but I started taking the biaxin at 500 mg twice daily again.

Anyways does anyone else have this issue? Did anyone have this issue and then have it clear up? And what was done to help it ?

Gosh... I am thinking this is where I have to say ugh... I need to shell out another $5000 for a high quality rife machine. I was hoping the abx would take care of it.

Chapelle
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   Posted 10/25/2014 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
lymepickle - I definitely have joint issues - can't decifer if its the tendons or not - but what supplements are you taking to help your muscles/joints?

I take coenzyme q, magnesium, pc biofilm, and omega fish oil. all of those things help the muscles and joints. you may just have residual issues that do not need antibiotic treatment. I have so much to report. my llmd appointment was excellent this week, I felt better than ever these past few days, and have been off antibiotics for 5 weeks now. I am just having an issue with a reaction to a detox kit I tried, so I will post the update once I get passed this. I posted a thread about it, my stomach turned into a balloon!!
Registered Pharmacist in NY
Tick Bite in October 2013 (didn't realize it at the time)
Started with Flu Symptoms November 2013 then Muscle/Nerve Symptoms
January 2014. Clinical Self Diagnosis (lyme test was negative) in Feb 2014.....started doxy February 8th. Battled lyme and bartonella for over 7 months. Almost finished with antibiotic treatment. 99% symptom free. Looking forward to recovering!!

LymePickle
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   Posted 10/25/2014 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
So Chapelle, no lyme in the tendons for you or tendon pain at all? I think you were on azithromycin for your whole treatment so I think this has not really been an issue for you. Did you recently get joint aches again?

In your opinion what antibiotic do you think is best for the tendons?

Does anyone else have experience with tendon pain related to lyme? And did it go away?
A pooper scooper trooper. Battling bartonella, Lyme, and mycoplasma.

Somewhere around 90% recovered... Not easy to get the last 10%! open to any advice I can get!

Chapelle
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   Posted 10/25/2014 7:13 PM (GMT -6)   
No, I had joint pain with all of this, with all different joints, including my fingers and hips! My right knee and shoulder still bother me. But my Dr said it's not the lyme causing the pain anymore, its just leftover inflammation.

there is no antibiotic that is specific for the tendons (except stay away from levaquin since it can cause tendonitis), so as long as you are taking teasel root, I think the teasel root will draw the lyme out of the joints, and the antibiotics will kill it. At least that's what I think it did for me.

LymePickle
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 10/25/2014 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Do you think macrolides are the way to go for lyme in the tendons?
I don't get it... I started the biaxin back in August ... And I had like all my tendons hurt really really bad... And then it stopped? Then I was like symptom free. Then past couple weeks I reduced my dose of abx... Now I went back to the full dose of biaxin and I have tendon pain again... My tendons are herxing.

Okay I'm going to buy a GB4000 rife machine and my decision is final. At first I thought it would be a big investment and I thought the lyme would be gone by now. But it's not. Lyme spirochetes die easily from certain resonant frequencies. I want to get the disease out of me completely. And I need something that really resonances deeply into the joints, bones, and tendons. Lol my goal is 100% remission and I refuse to stop until I get there.
A pooper scooper trooper. Battling bartonella, Lyme, and mycoplasma.

Somewhere around 90% recovered... Not easy to get the last 10%! open to any advice I can get!

LymePickle
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 2132
   Posted 10/25/2014 7:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Chapelle... I too also have the hip and shoulder issues. Yesterday my left shoulder was sore. And my hips ache too. My knees aren't a problem anymore since I got proZolone injections in them and they are now sterilized... But they did take some time to heal. I only have it in my left shoulder though like you. My right shoulder is fine. Both hips are equally achy but more on and off.

Now to the issue is the shoulder pain and knee pain from the lyme or left over inflammation? For me in my case I believe it is still active disease as the symptoms respond to antibiotics. They are hard to kill and keep rebirthing! Lol. Like they are coming back from the dead or something. You are lucky your case is just left over inflammation. Maybe your immune system is just mopping up the dead ones... My disease just comes back to life, I kill them, they die, then I have no symptoms at all, then they come back to life, I kill them again, symptoms go away. Lol what a viscous cycle. But I believe someday they will stay dead. Or they will learn to behave themselves and stop causing me disease! Lol.
A pooper scooper trooper. Battling bartonella, Lyme, and mycoplasma.

Somewhere around 90% recovered... Not easy to get the last 10%! open to any advice I can get!

Lyme Contractor
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 10/25/2014 8:47 PM (GMT -6)   
LP,

I can relate, I have tendon issues. I haven't found many on here that have had the same thing like I have. I too have the pain in the tendons, particularly my IT Band. It pops over top of the outside of my knee it is so tight sometimes. My shoulder tendons pop and the ones on my wrists pop over top of the bone. I haven't found anything that helps this issue yet, although I haven't made a whole lot of progress on anything in the past year. I am doing herbal, not antibiotics.

LC

Mom of 2
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Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 306
   Posted 10/26/2014 6:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Lyme Pickle, I have it in my tendons. So does my husband and one of my sons. I brought this up to my LLND on my last appointment. He told me to take Glucosamine with MSM. I will be seeing him again on Tuesday for my kids and will ask him again and let you know.

LymePickle
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 2132
   Posted 10/26/2014 10:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for your replies all. I feel glad I'm not the only one with these issues.

Gee... I feel frustrated with this illness. I would like to say I'm 90% or give some number of recovery but I just don't know anymore.

My symptom now is mainly tendon pain in my arms. And it just started on Thursday! It has been getting worse though.

I'm going to attempt high dose amoxicillin this week with a hot tub. Hopefully that helps.

And I'm buying a rife machine. I don't know what else to do? The only people that really seem to get well went to quite the extremes it seems to get well. Abx alone don't seem to be cutting it for me.
A pooper scooper trooper. Battling bartonella, Lyme, and mycoplasma.

Somewhere around 90% recovered... Not easy to get the last 10%! open to any advice I can get!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33939
   Posted 10/27/2014 12:50 AM (GMT -6)   
LP - how can you tell if it's in your tendons? How do you differentiate between tendon pain, and other pain - i.e. muscle...joint...?
Symptoms started Sept, 2013 (maybe sooner?)
Buhner's protocol May 15/14 to July24/14
Igenex positive July 3, 2014; Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14
Zithro July26-Aug.24/14
Amox 1000mg x3 + Probencid started Aug. 29/14; added biaxin 500X2 Sept. 26/14
Probiotics, Gaba, Psy-stabil, milk thistle, VitC, B12,D, Cal/Mag, extra mag, Ashwaganda, Curcumin

LymePickle
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 2132
   Posted 10/27/2014 1:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie... I know it's in the tendons because it feels painful where my tendons are.

I think maybe I am further in treatment so I can differentiate between them? I got no more muscle pain. Just tendon pain. Maybe when you get further in treatment you will notice your muscles aren't burning, it's only the tendons. I think in your case it just feels like it is all burning?

It is just pain where your tendons are. Bottom of arm, top of arm. And some tendons in my legs too.
A pooper scooper trooper. Battling bartonella, Lyme, and mycoplasma.

Somewhere around 90% recovered... Not easy to get the last 10%! open to any advice I can get!

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 10/27/2014 9:42 AM (GMT -6)   
LymePickle - I can relate. Body pain was my worst symptom. Years ago it felt like all over body pain and stiffness, when it all hurt, was hard to tell where it came from. But is was everything - muscles, the outer facia that holds our bodies together, and tendons.

If a joint is visually swollen - then it is in the joint. But some complain of joint pain with no swelling- in that case it can be tight muscles and tendons pulling on the joint, creating what is called refered pain in the joint(s).

I think you have to be very self analytical to figure to lyme body pain - which is not a natural inclination for most people. DRs are of no help in this area either.

As I progressed in non medicine options (actual muscle and tendon PT work), I could tell more of the specific areas it was originating from - mostly fibrous muscle ends - the tendons. I did have muscle adhesion's and knots in muscle as well, which shortens muscles putting strain on the tendon ends.

I've spent 10 years fixing and healing the body pain. It wasnt till a year ago that I started antibiotics that I would have quicker muscle recovery almost like non-lyme healthy people do (2 days vs 6).

This is the order of fixing lyme body pain that seem successful so far, I learned to do some of this stuff on my own, not as effective as a "body" practitioner (PT/ chiro ect) but saves thousands of $..

1) Feel muscle for tight knots - treat manually by Trigger Point Therapy to loosen muscle mid sections.

2) Treat muscle ends and TENDONS with Active Release Therapy - its trade marked and has a web page site, some is on U tube before it gets removes (cause its tradmarked). Use MSM topical cream on tendonitis areas, with MSM capsules, and Magnesium oil and mag glycinate tablets.

3) Learn Myofacial Release (5 min of pressure, yes FIVE) on muscle facia surrounding area, lay on med pressure inflatable able 4" ball (more deep than those foam rollers). I also use a 2" super ball and 4" Whamo brand super ball to lay on - works on sides of shoulder rotator cuff tendons too. I also bought a There-Cane to release tight areas.

4)One all these fibers are loosened, then chiropractic can accually be effective, (if your still tight chiro does not hold).

5)Finally, muscle rehab of the effected areas, its best with the help of a manual PT therapist or athletic trainer for people that do not have a good grasp on muscle movements. ****Note doing muscle training while body is still tight can do more harm than good.****

I learned all this the hard way. Unfortunately not of the "body work practitioner" that do the above, do all of it. They mostly know their treatment and don't know how to put the above plan together. I have discussed the order of my plan above that was the only thing that helped me, and they mostly agreed (accept for some tunnel visioned old school chiros).

I am still working on some suborn tendons while rehabbing muscles. The loser and stronger I get, the trouble areas become more centered and obvious as opposed to pain everywhere.

All this is available in pieces on the internet, I hope all this put together with help others. Many people need muscle and tendon rehab that antibiotics cant correct. Many times treating long term
Lyme only stops new pain, whats damaged needs repairing, and this is beyond most LLMD's knowledge areas..

I'm not really up to par on how this forum works, but if there was a "pain" section within, I think it would be bennificial to have that 5 step plan it, as these questions are asked hear a lot if you search for it. I know there are others that have discovered new pain recovery tricks too, but its lost in the forum.

Moderator??

hope this help people understand / treat lyme pain better

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 10/27/2014 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
There is something else for chronic tendonitis when nothing else works, as in this is "the last resort".

Its an injection procedure called Prilotherapy (spelling off?). Its fairly new and proven to work. Note: this is not steroid or cortisone injections, its different.

Of course this only makes sense to use once your lyme or co-infection has been optimally treated, and all other tendon treatments have been exhausted (I have not tried this, my Lyme is not gone).

There is a web page of providers that do this I think, - it falls under experimental medicine, so most likely insurance will not cover it.

I will say that after doing my previous five steps, I can do stuff with less pain, and better recovery since 25 years ago (infected time). My whole body was stiff with muscle and tendon damage to where I could only walk a block with out pain 6 years ago.

I know pain free is no longer a reality but 90% would be nice, still working on it.

kobetobe
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/6/2018 3:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello All.
I know it's been a while since the thread had been started. This is my first post here so stay with me.
I've got bitten in 2015.04. Year after I started to feel hip pain(or what I thought was hip). In the end I think it was more located in tuber ischiadicum and connected tendons. Looked for help with
few orthopaedists, had XRay, MRI, ultraSound picturing and so on. Nothing gave the answer.
In 2017.08 made 2 trier LB tests and got both positive. Got 4 weeks of 200mg Doxy.
Tendon pain never stopped permanently. It faded for a months but in general it increased and few more new places shown up with the pain.
So atm I think I have 4 different places painful at times.
I all those places I can locate and I am able to annoy/deep touch it increasing the pain.
When rolling over a had ball it pain reliefs for some time.
I have no typical lyme arhisis thats why I am not getting any more abxes. Started to look on my own for answers and found this publication: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3751012/
which sheds much light on the lyme and tendons and ligaments.

What is yours story after so much time?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 4/6/2018 9:12 AM (GMT -6)   
kobetobe- welcome to the club

I see this post is four years old. There are a couple recent tendon posts too.

As far as my last reply in this thread, I did achieve less tendon pain, so my dream came true.

The tendons and ligaments around my tuber ischiadicum (sit bones) are way better. Working on my upper IT/glute junction right now and left foot tibialis tendon.

Unlike most people here, I also had many soft tissue impact and repetitive motion injuries from a specialty sport while having lyme for decades - this altered healing at the time. I am now healing in reverse order.

I stopped abx Jan 2016, and have been doing my own PT (mostly myself) with topical DMSO and Cissus capsules. Still improving.

"Lyme Arthritis" is just a label, for lack of a better term.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/6/2018 9:22:15 AM (GMT-6)


kobetobe
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/6/2018 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks astroman!
In regards of that paper I linked - I am not sure how accurate and how legit it is. And what is the author reputation. Or what is our own (patients) experience.
This is the part of the reason I published it here.
With my own PT and running I am simply afraid now of spontaneous tendon raptures etc. So doing all very light or none.
What do you think?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 4/6/2018 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
I read PubMet from time to time.

Sometimes its straight forward with good info (what I like), sometimes its overfilled with technical wording without "cutting to the chase" (this case). Its been known that lyme effects internal soft tissue and can even cause external autoimmune skin conditions.

These symptoms can vary greatly on a case per case basis, lyme forums (the people) will show this.

Its my believe that the more soft tissue stresses one had from physical strains/work/sports, the more likely they will get soft tissue issues with lyme.

Ive never ruptured a tendon (some ABX can do that). My tendons lost flexibility, thus shortened many muscles. I also have scar tissue that can be felt in muscles too, which would have (should have) healing in a non-lyme infected person. I have broken down scar tissue and remoddled it too with various form of trigger point pressure and self gua-shaw till I'm black and blue, then natural healing begins.

Just started Cissus, its great for stiff tendons i/t bands ect.

Since your a runner, its important to workout your I/T's and glute junction "sideways" too with bands or adjustable weighted pulley machines.

I started making gains after abx. During abx I did less exercise, more rollers and light PT just to keep from getting worse.

Spanish
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 146
   Posted 4/6/2018 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I cant really relate to tendon pain on its own but one of the things I noticed before my diagnosis was that I would pull/tear my tendons really easily and they would then take forever to heal. It would be agony for months,

This symptom has now gone away only to be followed by terrible joint pain.

My llmd has prescribed Plaquenil as this is used to treat arthritis aswell as lyme and so far it seems to be working great, 90% of the pain has gone.

Missouri
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 397
   Posted 4/6/2018 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I am struggling with patellar tendonitis. I was 6 weeks into Plaquenil prescription when it got really bad.

acarined
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 231
   Posted 4/7/2018 11:36 AM (GMT -6)   
How do you know if it is Lyme or bart?

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33939
   Posted 4/7/2018 12:08 PM (GMT -6)   
acarined said...
How do you know if it is Lyme or bart?


That is the question.


So, if you're treating lyme, and you don't respond...then move on to bart...and you get symptom improvement...


There's a lot of overlap with these infections.

Some LLMD"s treat all three B's (Dr. J clinic does)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 4/7/2018 12:25 PM (GMT -6)   
And the luxurious prize package behind door number two goes to .....(contestants waiting, drum roll)......

....Girlie!
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33939
   Posted 4/7/2018 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
And the luxurious prize package behind door number two goes to .....(contestants waiting, drum roll)......

....Girlie!




What did I get??? What's the prize??? turn
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

kobetobe
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2018
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 4/8/2018 12:33 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
The tendons and ligaments around my tuber ischiadicum (sit bones) are way better. Working on my upper IT/glute junction right now and left foot tibialis tendon.

The pain in sit bones was first thing which pushed me to do Lyme tests. I've been having achilles tendon and tibialis tendon pains as well.
@astroman Tell me one thing though. You stopped abx in 2016 and still working you collagen deficits and flexibility? Have you supplemented it well?
See I finished abx in Aug 2017 (the one course of 28days@doxy@100mg x 2 which I had) and still getting those symptoms. But for me it's only now I found out that collagen thing around BB and I've just started to supplement it. That paper I linked implies that BB cells can stay in collagen and ligaments and tendon even after abx courses. My doc started to hesitate to put me on IV abx but she never told me about collagen and tendon thing. For her its all lyme arthritis in general and she waits for better prove of it. I wonder should I insists on a month iv abx or just start working on those collagen deficits and rebuilding strength and flexibility of tendons?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5095
   Posted 4/8/2018 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
"@astroman Tell me one thing though. You stopped abx in 2016 and still working you collagen deficits and flexibility? Have you supplemented it well? "

The typical soft tissue sups were a waste of $ for me, did nothing, collegian, glucosamine ect- tried all.

Cissus is way better at soft tissue repair, it actually helps healing.. The "muscle heads" on lifting forums have proven this.

My soft tissue is worse than others here, as I competed in contact and endurance events for two decades with lyme (many impact injuries that never healed correctly from lyme in the picture). My competitors would always heal, so I knew something was wrong, in addition to all the other lyme symptoms.

"That paper I linked implies that BB cells can stay in collagen and ligaments and tendon even after abx courses." - I'll have to read it again.

We do know that lyme never goes away, its just lower levels.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again and with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in Jan 2016. Rebuilding / fine tuning / fixing muscles since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.
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