How is it possible that every babesia med makes my ears ring?

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DazedPete1
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Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 7/31/2015 3:32 AM (GMT -7)   
I have no idea what to do. Every single babesia med I've ever taken gives me intolerable tinnitus. I know some of you will say this is a herx, but it is not because the ringing is accompanied by hearing loss. I've been on bactrim for over a year and it has done well for my bartonella but hasn't touched my babs. I'm not sure what to do at this point. Even artemisinin kills my ears. They get so sensitive that it hurts to listen to myself type this. It's hard to imagine but very true.

I gave herbals a very long, hard try for 9 months. I took very high doses of CSA, cryptolepis tea, A-BAB, Crypto by itself, Sida by itself, and any and all combinations of these herbs together and nothing put a dent in it. Simply at a loss. How will I ever beat babesia without getting permenant tinnitus? My uncle has very bad tinnitus and it has ruined his life. I fear the same fate for myself if I continue using these babesia meds. Worst of all, babs meds can't be pulsed.

I dare you to tell me everything is OK, because it is not. BTW I have the duncani strain, the one that is notorious for being a bear to get rid of.

Georgia Hunter
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Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 2021
   Posted 7/31/2015 4:08 AM (GMT -7)   
It is possible that you have a nutrient deficiency and that the babesia meds are causing too much oxidative stress. When you do not methylate with enough efficiency, superoxide radicals can cause problems. Antioxidants, appropriate minerals, and eating a lot of colored fruit and berries would be something that may help.

If it were me, I'd get a urinalysis from Doctor's Data to see where I was on nutrients.

sebreg
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 7/31/2015 5:09 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm sorry, that sounds brutal. I can't tell you it'll be ok, but I do have a few questions:

Do you ever get the tinnitus while you're not on the meds? is the tinnitus you get now when taking meds just as acute as 9 months ago? is the hearing loss permanent or does it come back? can you not pulse with babs due to resistance issues? are you working with llmd?

I'm of the belief there has to be a freakin way to nail this thing without causing permanent tinnitus!

Keep hanging in there! Hope others can provide some guidance or ideas or help for you.

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2597
   Posted 7/31/2015 5:59 AM (GMT -7)   
i'm curious why you say babs meds can't be pulsed. i'm pulsing Omnicef/Tindamax after a round of Coartem on a M,W,F schedule. have you considered this combo? Tindamax is also every effective at reducing bug loads for 2 forms of Lyme as well.

NotQuiteAntonio
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Date Joined Jan 2015
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   Posted 7/31/2015 6:13 AM (GMT -7)   
I remember being paranoid about using drugs, both OTC and otherwise, when I first got tinnitus. I forgot what the word was for them..

Ototoxic? Something like that. Basically, drugs that are bad for your ears. But, I mean, in your case, if those antibiotics fit the mold, well, you still need them, right?

It could be a herx, it could be some other type of reaction, could be them doing damage to your ears, but.. either way, guess you're gonna have to decide which is the lesser of the evils.
In a room full of empty..

daddylonglegs
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 117
   Posted 7/31/2015 6:13 AM (GMT -7)   
I always assumed that art had to be pulsed...as in your body needs a break from it because of an enzyme or protein or something...
===========================
erythema migrans June 7th, 2015...doxy/vitamins/herbs...possible babesia which i'm treating for just in case...

sarahm620
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Date Joined Feb 2014
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   Posted 7/31/2015 6:21 AM (GMT -7)   
I think Georgia Hunter is on the right track. Do you know if you have heavy metals, Pete?
Sarah
-positive IGM Western Blot- 39, 41 in January 2014// Igenex & CDC positive 11/14
-positive ANA and very low CD57
Chronic daily headaches since 2005

DazedPete1
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 7/31/2015 7:51 AM (GMT -7)   
No heavy metals, been tested for that. I've spoken with my LLMD and he said to tolerate it best I can but honestly he doesn't really know what to do either. Some of these meds are just bad for your ears if you're sensitive enough to them, which I clearly am. If you look up ototoxic meds, antimalarials are tops on the list. When I go off the meds, it takes a while to go away but I can never stay on any meds for more than 10 days, at which point the noise sensitivity becomes too much. I can't even have a conversation with someone or leave the house really because everything outside is so loud. Things like closing my bedroom door and flushing the toilet hurt my ears.

I'm not sure how I'd ever be able to stay on a med for as long as it takes to get rid of duncani.

sebreg
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 7/31/2015 8:05 AM (GMT -7)   
Part of me wonders if classes of drugs like ivermectin (and albendazole) could work against babs. Could be worth looking into? I don't think they have the ototoxic tendencies, but you'd have to check.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2597
   Posted 7/31/2015 9:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Pete I'll ask again, why aren't you pulsing with a quick half life antibiotic at least and something like tindamax for this? I have ducani also and there's no way you're going to get rid of it without meds.

DazedPete1
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 7/31/2015 9:43 AM (GMT -7)   
All of the antimalarials have extremely long half lives. I've been on pretty much every abx for 1.5 years now and the only thing that will work is the antimalarial class. Quinine: 12 hr half life; Malarone: 2-3 day half life; Mepron: 3-4 day half life; Plaquenil half life: 40 days. You get the idea. None of them have short half lives like antibiotics do.

sarahm620
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 1808
   Posted 7/31/2015 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Pete, have you had genetic/methylation testing done? I apologize if you've mentioned it before. I'm wondering if you have a methylation problem that is preventing you from detoxing effectively.

Methylation issues can sometimes cause tinnitus.

How is your liver?

 

 

http://www.sacredlotus.com/go/diagnosis-chinese-medicine/get/zang-fu-liver-gallbladder-patterns-tcm

 

http://www.carahealth.com/health-conditions-a-to-z/digestive-system/liver/240-the-sluggish-liver-explained.html

Post Edited (sarahm620) : 7/31/2015 11:14:00 AM (GMT-6)


DazedPete1
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 7/31/2015 10:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Liver is perfect. I'm pretty positive it isn't a methylation issue because I don't think those can cause hearing loss. It is a side effect of the medication that I have to take, and nothing else. Not a herx, not a symptom, but a side effect that will ruin my ears. I'm only 24. Some medications are ototoxic by nature and antimalarials are one of them.

sarahm620
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 1808
   Posted 7/31/2015 10:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Pete, I am only trying to help. I know you are frustrated, I'm 25 and also sick, and have been for over 10 years. The Chinese medicine link lists deafness in the symptoms of liver stagnation. Just something to think about.
Sarah
-positive IGM Western Blot- 39, 41 in January 2014// Igenex & CDC positive 11/14
-positive ANA and very low CD57
Chronic daily headaches since 2005

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 2021
   Posted 7/31/2015 11:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Just because heavy metals didn't show up on a provocation test doesn't mean you don't have heavy metals. Pathogens have been proven to be able to sequester metals and they won't show up on a heavy metals test. I've seen the studies. IMO, the virulence of Babesia depends on its ability to hold on to these metals. Aluminum would be my main concern with babesia.
I have traced the metabolic pathway that leads to problems like ototoxicity and minerals are almost always an issue. Correct the imbalance and the ototoxicity will decrease or go away.

Babesia treatment is limited by the body's ability to handle the oxidative stress and damage that occurs. Blockages in the methylation pathway cause detrimental side effects and impede treatment.

DazedPete1
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 7/31/2015 12:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Sorry if I seem like I'm being short with you guys, just in a very frustrating spot right now and not sure how I'll get out of it. Hunter: I eat a very healthy diet full of minerals and supplement with them as well. I take things like CoQ10, NAC, ALA, and milk thistle for antioxidant support. I understand that minerals could be an issue with tinnitus, but I get very bad hearing loss for a couple hours right after I take my meds, and I doubt that could be anything but the meds.

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 2021
   Posted 7/31/2015 1:22 PM (GMT -7)   
When you take your meds, the meds kill pathogens. The pathogens burst open and release their intracellular contents. Some of those contents may be metals or free radical containing compounds. Your body must have antioxidants to bind the free radicals or damage can occur. You don't have enough antioxidants to bind all the freevradicals. It doesn't matter how good you eat, you are being overloaded.
Depending on your genes, CoQ-10, NAC, milk thistle, and maybe even ALA can be considered harmful. All of these are thiol containing products and can be trouble with CBS mutations. If you haven't looked at your gene profile, you need to.
I have a protozoan like you so I know where you are at. Hang in there, it will get better.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 7/31/2015 1:32 PM (GMT -7)   
I may have missed this, but what have you done to specifically treat the ringing? Buhner suggested this to one person that was asking about "extreme ringing in ears":
"This is a tough one. I would suggest celery seed tincture 10-30 drops 3x daily, pasque flower tincture 10 drops 3-6x daily, Sida acuta tincture 30 drops 3x daily for 30 days."

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/extreme-ringing-in-ears/

I would also encourage you to take a look through these posts on Buhner's site to find some more possible options:
buhnerhealinglyme.com/category/symptoms/eyes-ears-nose-mouth/
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15
*I can usually post a link to any info that I post. Wish to see a link? Please just ask!
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