Ya the bart herx is actually from bartonella struggling and swelling up the endothelial cells that they live in. You just gotta stay the course for a bart herx, if you back off you could get into antimicrobial levels that are too low and gives bart a chance to breathe, which also resets treatment time back to day 1. So bart herxes, it's better to just put the petal to the medal and ride it through. It's not a lyme herx that releases all the toxic lipopolysaccharides.
I'm resurrecting this old thread since we've been talking about
bartonella a lot lately, and it's been beating me stiff for weeks now. I was slowly and steadily working on Buhner's bart protocol since August. Then I added the added IHA and sida acuta in late September/early October. In December I added kudzu, phellodendron, and Bidens pilosa. I kept trying to increase everything by a drop here and there. Three or four weeks ago, I got into a really bad flare or herx of what I thought was bartonella, as I had a lot of skin symptoms flare up. My herxes tend to involve increased joint, tendon, muscle, foot and tissue pain. Because the foot pain is so prominent and I know that bart hits tendons and joints, too, I've associated these with bartonella all along. I don't know if I'm right or not. I could be wrong, and it could just be cytokine induced inflammation that could just be random immune dysfunction and not a response of any particular infection.
Anyway, in response to this last flare/herx which also included horrible burning inflammation in my intestines, I dropped back my doses on the herbs by a drop or two. That got me out of the worst of it, and then I got shingles without the outbreak. Over the last 1-2 weeks, my head symptoms and chemical sensitivities have improved noticeably, but my joints, muscles, and feet are still stiff and weak, and I still have lost stamina and tolerance for exertion.
I came across this post while looking for something else and was intrigued by the somewhat heated debate over whether or not bartonella causes a herx. I could say a lot, but it would be a really long post, then LOL!! I was especially interested in what Lymepickle said here about
pushing through a bart herd, lest you end up back at day 1 in treatment. I hope I haven't done that. I think Lymepickle is probably right about
what is actually happening when we have a bartonella herx and probably herxes from other infections too. When the symptoms we have that are unique to the infection we are actively treating increase in response to treatment, it very well may have nothing to do with bacteria dying and releasing endotoxins. More likely IMHO it's the bacteria getting uncomfortable due to what we're doing and making us miserable.
Medical definition of herxheimer reaction is very different from what we call a herx. It involves fever, chills, fatigue and sickness.
"You just gotta stay the course for a bart herx, if you back off you could get into antimicrobial levels that are too low and gives bart a chance to breathe, which also resets treatment time back to day 1. So bart herxes, it's better to just put the petal to the medal and ride it through. "
Does anyone else agree with that? How do you handle bart herxes?