Can Lyme get into your bones?

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jennysetter
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 2/27/2016 10:18 AM (GMT -6)   
So my main complaint is Bartonella. I am constantly getting new symptoms but don't get too freaked out anymore. I've been on treatment for over a year and am at about 70-75% of my old self. Brain fog gone, attitude and ability to live life again are returning to normal, etc. Muscle atrophy has seemed to cease and am getting a little better at moving around and for the most part, feeling pretty good on most days.

One of my new symptoms that I find odd is that my brow bone hurts on and off and it goes back and forth between sides. It's as though the actual bone is bruised and stays sore for a few days. Have you ever bonked your brow bone, like bending over to get something off the floor and hit it on the counter? You know that real deep, sore feeling and tenderness you get? That's exactly what it feels like but I have not bonked my noggin. The pain is in the bone part, not the muscles or skin around my eye.

Anyway, I have my follow up with my ND next month and trying to decide if this should go on the list of things to discuss with her?

Thanks for your input!

Jenny

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 2/27/2016 10:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Definitely put it on the list to discuss and return with what she says.

Personal opinion here is - yes. Bones are kept alive with blood. One of lyme's highways around our body is blood.

jennysetter
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 2/27/2016 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks PeteZa for the response. So many weird things to cover and so little. time....! LOL

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/27/2016 12:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Yep, there are plenty of articles showing that Lyme can get into the bones - I'm not sure about Bartonella (sorry, my brain isn't right due to herxing).

It should go on your list, but not really at the top. If you have time and it's still going on, it might be worth double checking, but because it keeps moving around, I find it not too worrisome. I actually find that when my symptoms move around, I'm comforted because that's "just Lyme" doing it's thing and more treatment will ease those symptoms as well.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/27/2016 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
That's a weird one jenny, but then again nothing should be labeled unusual with these bugs. For example the skin around my nose and down each side almost to my lips along with the fold where my right eye meets near my ear is perpetually red and dry. Moisturizers help a little but because its caused most likely by Bart it will not get better until the bugs are flushed out.

What may feel like a deep bone bruise may not be what you think it is so definitely bring it up with your doctor. Pretty much any symptoms that aren't normal to you should be discussed.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/27/2016 1:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky, here is an article that shows that Lyme does get into the bones - bone marrow to be exact: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2141.2003.04084.x/full
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/27/2016 7:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Understood Traveler but what may be possible isn't always the case hence its important to work with your doctor on such things.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32654
   Posted 2/27/2016 7:13 PM (GMT -6)   
This sounds really bad...but I've given up telling my Dr. about everything that pops up...I'd be there twice a week...lol.

If something new pops up and sticks around for awhile, and is not getting better....then I will discuss with my LLND and also my regular Dr.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

rowingmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2011
Total Posts : 1652
   Posted 2/27/2016 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes. Bartonella has a tendency to infect bone marrow, especially in the long bones like the shins and forearms. K had painful bones for several years, and the pain increased with herxing and exercise.

She is all good now, even with extreme exercise.
13 yo daughter:
2010 - Dx ADHD, Tourette’s, Aspergers, motor delay, PANS/PANDAS
June 2011 - Igenex PCR positive bartonella, IND lyme. CD57 18. Positive ANA (speckled type), heterozygous A1298C MTHFR. Multiple Abx, herbals/homeopathics
April 2013 - ANA titers negative. Weaned abx. Start Buhner bartonella protocol, methylation/detox protocols, organic PerfectHealthDiet gf/cf/sf. Minimize EMF exposure
Nov 2013 – Clinical babesia diagnosis. Start Buhner babesia protocol
Sept 2014 – Symptoms 99% resolved

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4721
   Posted 2/28/2016 12:42 AM (GMT -6)   
How did you treat bart? Is there a way to get bart /lyme out of bone marrow...? I feel that deep drilling ache you described..also throbocytopenia points toward that

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 2/28/2016 5:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Bart gets into the bone marrow.

There is a good reason for that, the bone marrow is the place where the red blood cells are being grown and released in the blood stream. Bart uses the red blood cells as transportation. Unlike babesia, bart does not hurt the red blood cells, it just hops in and spreads everywhere, then it settles in the endothelial tissue of any organ and then it multiplies there.

Borrelia certainly gets into bone marrow, too:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2141.2003.04084.x/full

There's no special thing you need to do to get it out of there, antibiotics and/or herbs do reach the bone marrow and kill both of them. That article above suggests the guy with bone marrow borrelia recovered with abx.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/28/2016 10:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
Understood Traveler but what may be possible isn't always the case hence its important to work with your doctor on such things.


I don't believe I said that anyone shouldn't work with their doctor????

A question was asked if it could get into the bones - the answer is yes. I even provided a link to a scientific article showing this, plus I've had evidence of this.

I did not tell anyone to do any treatments on their own for this - and as you can see, more than just Lyme can get down into the bones, so I'm not at all clear as to why you posted this comment as if I had done something wrong. This is a community for sharing information - good solid information mostly.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

jennysetter
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 2/28/2016 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the confirmation everyone! I kind of had an idea that it was the bart and not to worry about it too much but it always feels better to reach out and make sure, you know? I'll tell my doc about that one and some of the other stuff that's popping up. In many ways it almost seems as though now that I've been in treatment for a little over a year, my symptoms are regressing. - some of the one's I got when I was first diagnosed are popping back up again and also a few new ones that I haven't had before. Kind of weird! I take it as a good sign though. Overall feeling better and more like my old self. It's nice to be able to actually deal with a little stress here and there and life again without feeling like it's the end of the world when I run out of butter! LOL.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 2/28/2016 11:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Jenny this is a strange journey we are on. I can't help but remember the Grateful Dead's song Truckin' and the words in that song say

What a long, strange trip it's been

I am so anxious to say those words and use the past tense!!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/28/2016 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Some people do find that their symptoms that they had at first are the last ones to leave! So hopefully that's the case for you and you are coming to the end of your healing journey!!! That would be sooo wonderful! I can't wait to add you to our "success stories" thread!! :-)
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

jennysetter
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 228
   Posted 2/28/2016 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler, that's so awesome that you say that! I was kind of secretely wondering that myself.....wow! I was sick on and off for about 15 years with no idea that it was Lyme before being diagnosed at a time when my total body tanked. I was in pretty sorry shape and thank God I'd been seeing a LLND by chance for my stomach issues already. When I hit the floor, she tested me, got me on TX and I was on my way immediately. I am so thankful for that. When reading of stories of folks that went from doctor to doctor for years, I honestly don't think I would have lived though that.

Well, I'm just waiting to see how all this goes. I honestly don't think I'll be completely clear but I do believe that my immune system is getting back into fighting shape and we're going to get these little bugs back into their corner and keep them there!

Another kind of "funny" symptom that has re-emerged is itchy feet. Oh boy, for about 2 years before being diagnosed, I would just sit and watch TV and scratch the bottoms of my feet. I haven't had this symptom for quite a long time and in the last week or so, I am gong CRAZY with it. I think I wore out entire runs of carpet in my living room rubbing my feet raw. Oh! Lordy the itch!

Well, thanks again everyone. One day at a time. I wish you all the best and I appreciate your input.

Jenny

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/28/2016 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Well, have hope! Itching can be a sign of healing!! Because it's your feet, it could be that the nerves are healing. Watch for improvements with them!!

Yep, I'm one of those that went from doctor to doctor to doctor. I did that for about the last 17 of the 37 years that I was sick, so I do understand!!

You have to come back and let us know if you have more issues we can be of help with, but I'm secretly hoping that the next time we hear from you, it's all about how you've healed!!! :-)
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/28/2016 4:22 PM (GMT -6)   
>>I don't believe I said that anyone shouldn't work with their doctor???? A question was asked if it could get into the bones - the answer is yes. I even provided a link to a scientific article showing this, plus I've had evidence of this.

No reason to be defensive Traveler I was just making a point its important to work with one's doctor. We read a lot on the Internet and I can tell you from my personal experience its led me in directions in regards to self-diagnosing that were just plain wrong. Hoping to drive home things I've learned so others can avoid some of the pitfalls. Her bone bruise may not be a bone issue at all hence my comment.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 2/29/2016 10:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I was not being defensive, but you did say: "Understood Traveler but what may be possible isn't always the case hence its important to work with your doctor on such things." So I clarified that I've never said that someone shouldn't work with their doctor - as you implied I did.

And considering the OP never said she has a bone bruise, then of course it most certainly may not be a bone bruise. The OP's words were: "my brow bone hurts on and off and it goes back and forth between sides. It's as though the actual bone is bruised" in case you missed it.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)
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