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nagalase enzyme in vaccines depletes Vitamin D= severe D deficiency in vital cell tissue

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sweetpeaisme
Regular Member
Joined : Feb 2015
Posts : 498
Posted 2/29/2016 8:43 PM (GMT -6)
I just read an article about this enzyme that shuts off the bodies ability to create, use, and store vitamin D. Vitamin D is found, in normal healthy bodies, is found in EVERY cell tissue(or is tissue cell)?

The doctors who have submitted their research on the discovery of this enzyme that is purposely added to vaccines, have disappered and/or found dead. The enzyme is nagalase(if Ive spelled that correctly)?

When i first became ill, My MD discovered I had SEVERE vitamin D deficiency. She instructed me to just purchase a supplement over the counter and return to blood tests in 3 months, which I DID however there was no change in my D level-or lack thereof. My body wasnt absorbing the supplement due to food intolerences and leaky gut, but after treating that and correcting my diet, My D levels very slowly rose....I ended up using a product that is food based aka sesame oil. I take 10,000 I.U's once weekly and noticed last fall when Id run out, and stopped taking the Vitamin D supplement that my depression, anxiety, and moods were UNcontrollable.

Also, a severe vitamin D deficiency means you're not able to absorb calcium and thus resulting in either kidney stones OR gall stones. Ive had my gall bladder removed, as well as all THREE of my sisters who also have severe D deficiency. My sister-in-law and a friend from church, both have Degenerative disc disease also low vitamin D. My diabetic husband is low in vitamin D, as well as his mother who has tested positive HIGH for cancer markers. Cancer....

Studies(according to the article I read)now link severe D deficiency to cancer.

A lab tech last month informed me to verify w/my health Ins that theyll cover vitamin D testing because for some unbeknownst reason to them, SOME insurance companies no longer cover the D testing.....hmmmm
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PeteZa
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2015
Posts : 9729
Posted 2/29/2016 9:50 PM (GMT -6)
I live in sunny California and my MD checks all patients Vit D levels. I was super tan and he still checked mine. He said it is just what doctors need to do. Thanks for this information. Oh, and my D was fine. I get most of mine from the sun.
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 46704
Posted 2/29/2016 10:01 PM (GMT -6)
Sweetpeaisme - you were deficient and you only take 10,000 IU's once a week?


Are your levels maintained with that dose? Have you been testing regularly?

I take 3,000 IU's daily to maintain my levels... I have to pay for my vitamin d tests (in Canada)
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k07
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2015
Posts : 3470
Posted 3/1/2016 8:20 AM (GMT -6)
I was tested in the summer (North Carolina) and was at the pool with the kids a lot and my levels were still in the 30's. I must not be able to absorb much from the sun. I take 5,000 a day and I'm finally in the 70's. Ideally I believe they want me over 80. My 10 year old daughter was just tested and she is at 36. I have been supplementing her with about 2,000 units daily for 2 months prior. I was shocked she was still so low. My son was at 35. And the pediatrician said his vitamin d looked great! I didn't even argue with him...

This story just blows my mind. Could this really be happening?
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36488
Posted 3/1/2016 8:40 AM (GMT -6)
I would agree with Girlie - I was deficient as well, and I have been taking 6,000 IU's daily as per my doc because I can't seem to maintain my levels. And no one else in my family has been found to have low levels of vitamin D.

So that means I take 42,000 IU's a week compared to your 10,000 IU's a week, so you can see why we are concerned.
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ursamajor68
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 228
Posted 3/1/2016 9:42 AM (GMT -6)
I view the Vitamin D issue in a completely different light, and always have. I post this only for information purposes, not to debate...we can all think for ourselves and decide which treatment path is best for us.

I am providing a link that very well covers my following stance on Vit D supplementation - that low levels are the effect of our pathogens/illness, not the cause...and that high supplementation can actually interfere with pathogen elimination. There is plenty of other information out there, if you desire further reading.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160567/

No matter what you believe about Vitamin D right now (and there are strong beliefs, so I am stepping lightly here), please take time to read about the science of this. There is actually a discussion about how high Vit D supplementation, where pathogens are concerned, can make numbers look good and reduce symptoms but can actually interfere with elimination of bacteria from the body.

Nothing made sense to me regarding Vit D deficiency and the huge movement to megadose to get numbers up. I didn't like the oral supplementation idea anyway, right from the start, because it isn't how the mechanism in our bodies is supposed to work. So I was one of the rare ones who didn't grab for supplements when my D3 showed low. When something doesn't make sense to me, I just keep digging...it is just who I am.

I have low Vitamin 25(OH)D but I learned, especially in immune issues, you need to check you 1,25(OH)D as well. In inflammation, your VDR (vitamin d receptor) can be the issue. Often, your D3 can be low, but the 1,25 normal/high. That is what was happening in my case.

My point is simply that I am very concerned with the high dosing of Vitamin D people are taking. My body would not tolerate supplementation (i used baby drops of 400iu) and I am grateful, because it was talking to me and telling me to knock it off....which lead me to further research and testing, which lead me to Lyme and this forum.

Again, we choose our own paths - but I wanted to share a different viewpoint on Vitamin D. In a nutshell, I believe the pathogens in my body CAUSED my low Vitamin D issue, CAUSED my Hashimoto's, CAUSED my vitamin/mineral deficiencies....and as I eradicate them, my body will start to heal the inflammation, as it was designed to do. I ate healthy, yet was mineral deficient. I got sunshine, yet was Vitamin D deficient.......there had to be a root cause, and now I believe I found it. This is why I expect my tests of these conditions I listed to improve as I heal. It is already showing itself in symptom relief - I no longer have the Hashimoto swings at all with racing pulse, only 8 weeks into treatment. Getting the pathogens out, in my case, appears to be addressing the inflammation. That is the theory that works for me - I listen to my body above all else.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36488
Posted 3/1/2016 10:48 AM (GMT -6)
While I have no intention to argue, we do have to understand that "feeding the bacteria" can't be part of our equation. Why? Because we absolutely must have a well functioning body in order to heal, and we can't do that if we don't have all the nutrients we need, which is why we must have at least some testing with a good doc that understands the needs of these nutrients. I've been reading that in reality, the threshold for determining at what point a person is deficient in vitamin D (1,25(OH)D) is much too high, which means many more people are actually deficient. We are all different and have different needs though - to assume that we all need the same things only entraps us further.

This subject comes up from time to time, last time it was about manganese (because that's what the Lyme bacteria use most instead of iron like most bacteria) - and people were trying to avoid getting any in their body - but the thing is that the Lyme bacteria will keep on taking until the body is completely depleted of it - which of course by that point the body is in real trouble anyway - all we would be doing is helping the bacteria to take all it can. The opposite is actually what we need to do. Why?

Because we already know that a healthy body can beat these infections, so if we take in enough nutrients to make sure our body is getting what it needs despite what the bacteria uses, then our body actually gets enough to be able to get strong enough to kick those little bacteria butts!!

For those that start off with too high of vitamin D levels due to these bacteria, there is a protocol for that called the Marshall protocol, because you avoid all forms of vitamin D during that protocol. This doesn't help those that need vitamin D to heal though - I've watched several people that didn't have high levels of vitamin D that have come through this forum try to use the Marshall protocol and not do well until they switched over to a protocol that didn't avoid all forms of vitamin D.

Again, I firmly believe in testing for levels of vitamin D and that we stick closely to what our educated doctors tell us to do. We are all different with different needs. But for someone that is severely deficient, 6,000 IU's a week is a very small drop in the bucket of what they truly need.

Ursa, I want to be very clear here, we all need to do what is right for your own body and you are correct in that we are all different and much listen to our own body closely and monitor our testing. I am not arguing here, only presenting the other side and then meeting in the middle again with the understanding that we all are unique individuals.
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Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 46704
Posted 3/1/2016 11:14 AM (GMT -6)
ursamajor - I agree with Traveler - if it is the disease lowering our vitamin d levels...then we need to support our bodies by supplementing.

The same goes for thyroid. Even if it's route cause is LD - our bodies need to be supported with supplementation.
We need to 'prop' ourselves up in the interim.
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ursamajor68
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 228
Posted 3/1/2016 11:52 AM (GMT -6)
I appreciate your honesty and open-mindedness, Traveler. Vitamin D has become a hot topic and I rarely discuss my viewpoints on it, choosing to save my energy for my healing vs playing defense. I personally feel we are just at the baby stages of understanding the complexity of Vitamin D supplementation and we don't know the long term effects yet.

I made my decision based on a lot of countless hours thinking and researching, in addition to my own body's clues, which are of primary importance to me and have not let me down to date. For those who read the studies in the link I provided, one example discusses the ligand and VDR receptor relationship - and curcumin is one of those you can find information about, if anyone chooses to research further.

Back to my body's communication with me, all I can share is that when I would try to take any form of D3 and when I take turmeric (curcumin), my body goes wild (mild/moderate air hunger, clenching teeth, herx like feelings) - which fits like a glove in what you would expect, based on the hypothesis my article link presents. The pieces make sense, in my unique case, when taken in context of the article. Adding D throws gasoline on the fire inside of me, curcumin goes to work on the VDR system. I merely decided to avoid the gasoline effect (no D) while helping the VDR (yes to turmeric). For the record, both my daughter and I get "sun sick" as well - our bodies say no to sitting in the sun, too. My daughter had a panic/anxiety incident last summer when she visited me, after being out in the sun too long. We both have low D3.

We are often our own guinea pigs - and my expectation (hypothesis) is that when I re-check my thyroid levels/antibodies, vitamin/minerals and D status down the road, I will see those numbers drastically reduced because I am reducing the pathogen load and inflammation. Time will tell. I am having a drastic reduction of the symptoms of those deficits, since reducing the pathogen load - if there was no positive change, I would have thrown this guinea pig testing out. I can't stay in the middle on D supplementation. Because even a little can cause problems, as the article discussed. My body, fortunately, is making the decision for me instead of my having to flip a coin. It is unhappy at even the slightest dose. And like the article, I have the low D3 and higher D 1,25....just like they discuss.

In closing, I do recommend, regardless of where you stand on Vitamin D protocols, that you get your D 1,25 checked. It is intimately correlated to immunity, the Vitamin D Receptor (VDR), etc. D3 is only one spoke on the Vitamin D wheel. Especially when taking megadoses of anything, keep an eye on the whole system, not just one part. People focus on only D3 just to see if their levels are getting "up there" - but as the article explained, these levels we are reaching for could be extremely flawed. I won't go into that, the article points this out in detail, if anyone wishes to read about it. It is simply a belief that makes sense to me on my path.

Again, it is nice to be in a forum where all of our research can come together. Because we aren't alike, because our bodies are so different, it is important to present all sides and experiences. I am certainly the minority, and that is ok - but there are others like me out there. I just wanted the opportunity to show that there are other modes of thought where Vitamin D levels and supplementation are concerned. I appreciate your giving me the opportunity to express that here.
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ursamajor68
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 228
Posted 3/1/2016 12:32 PM (GMT -6)
Girlie,

I respect your viewpoint - and am very aware that it is where the majority stand....and that is ok!

I want to stress that my research only recently lead to Lyme - all of my testing, researching and guinea-pigging (new word!) was in the realm of autoimmunity and inflammation. So I am just learning about pathogens and spent most of my time and energy in the immune system.

I am overly-simplifying below, but the reason I chose this Vitamin D belief is because it is in synch with my other "beliefs" and experiences.

Many look at deficiencies as an empty cup that needs to be filled. If this is low, fill it, and so on...That seems to be the common view and approach.

My view is different, based on studying systems, and just how complex and elaborate they can be. I am very afraid to take a high dose of anything because it is connected to something else. Like the calcium/potassium/sodium/magnesium relationship. Take too much of one and you can really cause trouble by enhancing deficiency in the other.

I often give the example of when I decided to "just take a big dose of B12" and thought I was going to have a heart attack. Why? Because at the time my potassium was low and B12 draws from it, so I had serious potassium deficiency symptoms. I am very leery at giving others advice to take large doses of anything without knowing their status. My B12 is perfectly fine, by the way, which I immediately tested.

It is also why, I believe, I no longer have thyroid symptoms after treating pathogens, when I had a record high TSH and antibodies over 1,000 just this past summer! Just like with D, when I tried to take thyroid meds, it was gasoline on a fire.

In my viewpoint, which again is the minority (but the majority approach does not work for my body, which is the key reason I do what I do), trying to fill the cup only causes more upheaval inside of me. For me, it isn't about the deficiency, it is about the entire complex system that is being attacked. There are many, many stories out there about people healing Hashimoto's 100% without ever taking any thyroid or, once finding their root cause, needing thyroid meds no longer.

We are all unique - it just isn't a one size fits all, in my opinion. Some cups are filled, in my opinion, not by direct pouring...but by helping the body remove the cap...then the body takes it from there...
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36488
Posted 3/1/2016 12:57 PM (GMT -6)
Ursa, I think we do pretty well at trying to respect all points of view here, but we do try to make sure things are accurate. As you said, this is a very large ball of wax that we are dealing with and we must be careful because one thing never stands alone - something I've been fighting with doctors about all my adult life.

There was a fairly large number of members on this site at one time that tried to starve the bacteria that were inside of them by making sure they didn't take in certain nutrients. That didn't go so well and they ended up being worse off, which is why it's a red flag for me anymore.

I also think we do pretty well over all at understanding - or at least emphasizing that we are all unique individuals and we must do what we need to in order to heal. We have to listen to our body and we hopefully have a doctor to help us interpret what it means when we are first starting out or are unsure -but nonetheless, if we don't listen to our body, it will get our attention one way or another.

I think you presented your insights very well and without needing any defense. Thank you!! It was something that needs to be brought up from time to time.
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ursamajor68
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 228
Posted 3/1/2016 1:25 PM (GMT -6)
Traveler,

I do believe we all have to be careful...you are right. I also believe that you all do a wonderful job at focusing on promoting the uniqueness of our bodies. I think we have made our points and still "feel the love" :) hope so! You and I have both discussed we are thinkers....and this is what thinkers do or they self-destruct!

Because the discussion is wrapping up here, I do want to be certain that the starving the bacteria example was just an example you gave...not directed toward my mode of thinking, correct? I don't want to close out with forum members thinking that this is what I was saying in any way. I do not support starving bacteria. I make sure my diet includes everything, every day, that my body needs AND I supplement deficiencies, but gently...avoiding megadosing and keeping an eye on levels and the grueling task of learning what minerals have relationships in the body (like the pot/sod/mag/cal delicate balance).

The Vitamin D position I take isn't to starve the buggers.....the link explained it completely, and it is much, much more complex than that.

Ok...that was defense...but only because I didn't want my methods to be interpreted incorrectly after all of our dialogue.

Thanks.........
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36488
Posted 3/1/2016 7:04 PM (GMT -6)

ursamajor68 said...
Traveler,

I do believe we all have to be careful...you are right. I also believe that you all do a wonderful job at focusing on promoting the uniqueness of our bodies. I think we have made our points and still "feel the love" :) hope so! You and I have both discussed we are thinkers....and this is what thinkers do or they self-destruct!


YAY!!


ursamajor68 said...

Because the discussion is wrapping up here, I do want to be certain that the starving the bacteria example was just an example you gave...not directed toward my mode of thinking, correct? I don't want to close out with forum members thinking that this is what I was saying in any way. I do not support starving bacteria. I make sure my diet includes everything, every day, that my body needs AND I supplement deficiencies, but gently...avoiding megadosing and keeping an eye on levels and the grueling task of learning what minerals have relationships in the body (like the pot/sod/mag/cal delicate balance).

The Vitamin D position I take isn't to starve the buggers.....the link explained it completely, and it is much, much more complex than that.

Ok...that was defense...but only because I didn't want my methods to be interpreted incorrectly after all of our dialogue.

Thanks.........

Nope! You and I are still on very good footing. I too think good discussions are necessary to show differences in treatments and the differences in each body. I neither want to argue or attack you or anyone else here, my only point is that while you may find you do better without supplementing (and others too) this will not be true for everyone. And of course to be careful!! :-)
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