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Best thing to kill systematic, long term Candida?

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afiya4health
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2013
Posts : 196
Posted 4/16/2016 7:57 AM (GMT -8)
I need recommendations for the best thing(s) that KILL candida (not probiotics, not "support" supplements) in someone who's had it for a long time. I don't care if it's natural or prescription.
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PeteZa
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Posted 4/16/2016 8:04 AM (GMT -8)
My acupuncturist totally believes that all you have to do is starve it to death. You don't need supplements or herbs or anything. Just starve it and it leaves.

To starve it you eliminate sugar. You have to read everything you buy because most everything in a bottle, jar or box has sugar in it. You are left with eating only real foods. And his belief is that you avoid even the fruits.

A girlfriend of mine went through it and was not easy. She craved sugar. Which is so typical because Candida thrives on sugar and grows and grows.

Candida thrives as a result of a compromised immune system, dysfunctions in the digestive system, hormonal imbalances in the endocrine system and an overload of toxins. All the anti-fungals in the world will not take care of the problem if you do not address it on all levels. It requires modifications in diet, lifestyle, stress management, eliminating toxins and rebuilding your immune system. Diet is a vital part of the program and there is no magic formula for dealing with the cravings.

This is just my opinion and I am not a doctor. It will take huge will power to fight the will power of the Candida's need for sugar.

Good luck.
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blueberrymuffin
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Posted 4/16/2016 8:16 AM (GMT -8)
I have the same opinion as PeteZa - diet is a key. You must eat strict anti candida diet. Good luck!
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afiya4health
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Posts : 196
Posted 4/16/2016 8:25 AM (GMT -8)
To PeteZa and blueberrymuffin:

Thank you and i understand that you trust your acupuncturist and obviously your girlfriend, but this is incorrect. I have tried this. Others online have tried simply starving and it does not work. Even if the symptoms disappear and the thrush or whatever outward appearance disappears, once you have sugar, or bread or even dairy for a few days it comes back. And it doesn't matter how long you "starved" it for, if you take nothing to kill it and reduce it then it will come back.

Diet alone does not work. If the candida comes back after eating something with sugar or carbs then it does not work. Are people going to avoid sugar all their life?? No.

This is why I ask for recommendations on what kills candida.
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Pirouette
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Posted 4/16/2016 9:19 AM (GMT -8)
Hi afiya4health -

Good info so far. I think we can all agree on a holistic approach because there are MANY different aspects of addressing an existing yeast/fungal overgrowth, prevention and maintenance. In a healthy state, we all have a "normal" amount of y/f everywhere in/on our bodies but an imbalance can be horrible to deal with, often dangerous if left unchecked and VERY difficult to eradicate. So that's where my opinion differs from others.

I'm not an expert - but lived through a y/f crisis of sorts. I'm not sure how/why but I developed chronic sinusitis that dropped into bronchitis--for 13 months. I was in/out of ER, MD's offices and urgent care and prescribed abx and steroids over and over --maybe 9 courses of different drugs. No one ever thought to culture the infection and I was too uniformed to ask for it. I became so ill I thought I might stop breathing (my nephew died of asphyxiation due to phlegm in his chest) and somehow had the strength to do the research online, at least enough to suspect fungus. Within 3 days of taking basic antifungals I was nearly fully recovered.

I've had experience with just about every area and opportunity for overgrowth that people can experience... eyes, ears, sinuses, nose, mouth, face, throat, GI---the entire alimentary canal all the way down south, vaginal, nipples, bellybutton, nails... you name it.

I've learned in my investigation that some people are more susceptible (me - I was born with a naturally "low" level of good gut bacteria) and a few other DNA mutations that I think challenge my body's ability to metabolize sugars/carbs. I know some people have taken abx successfully w/out any intervention for y/f overgrowth--and while I think it's rare, some people do naturally have less of a risk. As with many other things, we're all different and the following might not apply to everyone but in all of my research, I think it covers most people.

Overgrowth vs. prevention/maintenance
Also, there is a difference in approach to overgrowth vs. maintenance and prevention. For most people, they are measurably different.

Time is of the essence
With an existing overgrowth you will want to it it fast and hard with an anti fungal Rx. Yeast/fungus grow within hours--most of us here know that one abx dose can wipe out your entire intestinal flora, and the good bacteria (also wiped out) are what keep the y/f in balance. So, within hours of your abx doses you could easily develop an overgrowth. Y/f can also quickly morph into hyphae stage.

GI & immune damage
Also, if left unchecked, y/f can do a lot of damage to the GI - yeast grow "roots" into the mucosal lining, creating holes which allow fecal matter, toxins, debris and y/f to seep through and into the blood stream, which carries this junk throughout your body. This is known as "leaky gut" and is the likely cause of food sensitivities/allergies and many immune overreactions--it doesn't recognize that junk and starts producing antibodies against it. Next thing you know, you've developed an immune response to all the food you eat. Since 70% of our GI IS our immune system, gut health is critical to our healing and it is VERY difficult to heal your GI after this kind of damage - takes years if you know what you're doing.

Resistance
And, y/f can develop resistance to antifungals so these are a few of the reasons why you want to hit it hard and fast and why I usually recommend people jump directly to an Rx until it's been managed and then can wean themselves off and onto a natural maintenance approach. But not all Rx are created equal.

Diagnosis
You didn't provide much info on the type of overgrowth you have - is it in your mouth? GI? skin? do you know if it is systemic?

The best approach (but certainly not foolproof) is to do a stool test (Doctor's Data stool tests also show you a graph that indicates the level of efficacy of say, 10 or so common Rx and natural antifungals to the specific y/f strains found in your stool---other labs may also do this but I know for sure the DD's does). Not all y/f shows up in stool or blood tests, however but if it does it's important to know how to target it.

Systemic antifungals
Or, you can skip tests and experiment w/ different antifungals - Diflucan (Fluconazole) and Ketoconazole are common systemic Rx.

A systemic anti fungal, taken orally, crosses the mucosal barrier of the GI and gets into the blood stream, which takes it throughout your body (hence, "systemic") and it kills the target fungi on contact. This medication is also flushed through the liver, which can be tough for it to process so if you have a known liver issue--you need MD support with this. For the rest of us, it's critical to have your enzymes checked monthly and it's a good idea to take liver support while you're on it (regardless of your enzyme levels) like milk thistle seed and/or burdock root.

Local anti fungal
A common local Rx that does not cross the mucosal barrier and therefore treats the GI and alimentary canal more specifically is Nystatin--but I would skip the Nystatin pills and get an MD to prescribe PURE Nystatin powder 500,000 units (can be filled at most compounding pharmacies). The great thing about the powder is it's derived naturally from the earth and safe to take for awhile (although you could eventually develop a resistance but I've read it's uncommon) and no enzyme issues. Also, since it's a powder, you add it to a little water, swish it around your mouth and swallow it--and it coats everything from your mouth all the way down through the alimentary canal, killing everything on contact.

Naturals
There are several natural antifungals that work really well for prevention and maintenance but I don't recommend them for an existing overgrowth. These also should be cycled in/out of rotation to prevent resistance - I'd take two at a time and cycle to new ones after a month.

Detox
Regardless of what you take you're now killing another "infection" and creating additional debris and toxins that need to be flushed out of your system, so detoxing is as important as killing the overgrowth.

Diet
Diet is non-negotiable. Regardless of what you take, as long as you're on abx and are at risk for a y/f overgrowth, you absolutely have to limit sugars and simple carbs in your diet. The more you feed the y/f the more it will grow, which also puts you at a higher risk for developing resistance. Also, y/f have been shown to feed on other types of foods if it's strong enough so that's also why it's important to hit it hard and fast.

Probiotics
And, regardless of what you take, you're going to be more successful in eliminating overgrowth and keeping it from reoccurring if you replace the good bacteria while you're on abx. 100 billion/day of high quality, multi-strain is best and rotating different products helps too.

Again, with an existing overgrowth you probably need an Rx but an Rx will not be successful without ALSO replacing good bacteria, avoiding all sugars and simple carbs and incorporating a robust detox program.

Hope this helps - please let me know if you have more q's. Tried to keep my post to the basics.

-p
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astroman
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Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 9014
Posted 4/16/2016 2:11 PM (GMT -8)
afiya4health - Pirouette covered it.

That said, I fully understand the patience limitations/frustrations with systemic candida. I now think I had this as a child with leaky gut too.

Its naturally in us (in healthy people) and can only be reduced, so thats what we do, reduce it so you dont notice it anymore.

It got bad a few years before ABX, and I treated on my own with NOW Candida support, cut 90% of sugar and glutan for 3 months, no beer, no soda. Of course probiotics AND D-Limonene from Jarrow. A lot of chicken, brown rice (not white rice), and veggies.....yes, boring after a while. AND D-Limonene from jarrow. It worked.

But after ABX candida came back worse than ever. Non of the natural BS did squat this time around. So I pulled out the big ammo which is Diflucan Rx. That kills stuff, and I herxed, hot all the time with sweats too. And my liver enzymes went up again, so only stayed on three months.

I will never return to the crap I ate 10 years ago. But I dont eat like a saint either, I'm in between since I'm here to live. For bread I eat real sough dough bread, its fermented and does not bother me, its good for celiacs too.

Used to love pizza and pasta, now not so common. If I feel uncomfortable after eating something, its not really worth it. Soda pop, candy, doughnuts - vary rare for me.

Some people are more susceptible to it than others.
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magoo2
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Joined : Mar 2015
Posts : 1628
Posted 4/16/2016 2:16 PM (GMT -8)
You may want to consider the connection between heavy metals and yeast. Its a natural response
Your best bet might be to get rid of heavy metals
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Georgia Hunter
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Joined : May 2012
Posts : 2687
Posted 4/16/2016 2:42 PM (GMT -8)
Anti-candidia diet, titrate up to about 10g of raw Nigella sativa seeds per day, and as magoo2 said, eliminate the metals.

Many Lyme patients have bad yeast and don't have enough Saccharomyces in their GI tract. Florastor may be a good option.
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astroman
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Posts : 9014
Posted 4/16/2016 2:50 PM (GMT -8)
But, as my LLMD noted, Saccharomyces ( Florastor) can actually make some candida worse in some people. Weird, yes. That was my case. At least it wasn't an expensive experiment LOL.

Sometimes you fight fire with fire, sometimes with water.
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magoo2
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Joined : Mar 2015
Posts : 1628
Posted 4/16/2016 3:58 PM (GMT -8)
If you have candida and your doc didn't test metals you may consider using two docs.
First of all metals can mess up you immune system and may be one of the real causes that
you have lyme-people with good immune systems do no have chronic lyme.
Second-if you are struggling with candida-use google and read for yourself. Yeast is a natural
reaction of the body to metals.
getting a heavy metal test just makes sense for anyone with chronic disease

Post Edited (magoo2) : 4/16/2016 7:52:55 PM (GMT-6)

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astroman
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Posts : 9014
Posted 4/16/2016 4:36 PM (GMT -8)
There are many pieces of the puzzle to candida. PH being a big one too, and seldom mentioned here.. There is no one reason. I find it a little odd how so many people here do have high metal levels. I should have high metals from the jobs I've held, always came out good on tests (from different labs too), lucky I guess.

I'm guessing there are many people in the general public with candida that just dont know what it is. More common than we think. People I know with poor eating habbits (junk food) all have bloated bellies. Coincidence? Probably not. And the classic "beer belly", probably more than likely from years of "candida belly", from their self induced beer-yeast factory.

Candida and leaky gut usually hand in hand, they heal in a parallel fashion in my experience, but probably to less than 100% recovery than we'd like to hope for.

I'm guessing I'm 75% better than I was, and that remaining 25% or so, might just be normal for my body.

Think of all the "gluten sensitive" (not glutan intolerant) people out there, who might be feeling candida creep up when they eat gluten. But most dont think that far and are satisfied with the now so common "gluten sensitive" label as a diagnosis.
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Pirouette
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Posts : 6235
Posted 4/16/2016 4:49 PM (GMT -8)
astroman -

I agree with your entire post--whole heartedly. Many good points.

Regarding the previous mention of heavy metals and your comment... I had MANY amalgams in my teeth - in all of my back 8 teeth upper/lowers. I had all of them removed except for those in 2 teeth about 4 yrs ago and not by a "bio" dentist (I wasn't aware of the issues at the time) and I think I suffered some leeching into tissues despite repeated negative hvy mtls testing.

When I tried to detox using chlorella--I nearly killed myself. I learned quickly that if you don't know what you're doing, you are likely to leach mtls out of tissues, fail to detox them efficiently and they will be reabsorbed. So now I'm pretty sure that has contributed to my y/f challenges but I'm not in a healthy enough state for mtls detox... not yet anyway.

-p
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afiya4health
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Joined : Nov 2013
Posts : 196
Posted 4/16/2016 6:16 PM (GMT -8)
What are the symptoms of heavy metal??
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Tillybear
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Joined : Dec 2015
Posts : 383
Posted 4/16/2016 7:16 PM (GMT -8)
Get rid of sugar and processed simple carbs and add fermented foods to your diet, LOTS of fermented foods and coconut oil whenever you can add it including into your coffee. All the huge amounts and diversity of implantable probiotics will take over as the candida croaks from lack of food. I'd also get some tea tree essential oil and put a drop on the sole of each foot before bed. That stuff is great at killing fungus.
I believe this is what turned my candida issue around in a matter of 10 months although I did take diflucan last June for one month and for 10 days after Christmas (with the smallest bit of diet cheating). My candida level last appt. in March was 0.0

You can kill it with the anti-fungals but ultimately restoring your gut microbiome is what will keep it in check.
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Georgia Hunter
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Posted 4/16/2016 7:30 PM (GMT -8)

afiya4health said...
What are the symptoms of heavy metal??

The same symptoms of Lyme.
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FUBU
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Posts : 750
Posted 4/16/2016 7:33 PM (GMT -8)
All good advice here. I was diagnosed with a blood test and also through the OATS urine test. I did the strict diet, 3 rounds of 10 days on/10 days off Diflucan/nystatin. I also drank a quart of red clover/stinging nettle/pau d' arco tea for 4 weeks. I also got an LDI shot for Candida and I think I am over the worst of it. I used to buzz and vibrate anytime I ate anything with sugar or even fruit. Now, I'm pretty much fine. Good luck. It's a plague.
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magoo2
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Posted 4/16/2016 7:49 PM (GMT -8)
Heavy metals- better test
You can have both-at once.
treating heavy metals doesn't mean not treating lyme-
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Georgia Hunter
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Posted 4/16/2016 7:54 PM (GMT -8)
Amy Yasko has shown that the provocation metal tests that are the gold standard for testing metals are not reliable. I'd still do it, but there is no guarantee it will be accurate if it says you don't have heavy metals. WE ALL HAVE HEAVY METALS, just in varying amounts.
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magoo2
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Posted 4/16/2016 8:02 PM (GMT -8)
Georgia-the lyme test is less reliable also yet we still use it
There is/are reason or reasons that people get chronic lyme when thousands get lyme and it never becomes chronic. We need to look at what weakens our systems Metals is something every chronic lyme patient should check and treat.
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Pirouette
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Posted 4/16/2016 8:09 PM (GMT -8)
Please use caution when chelating and be knowledgable or have good support before embarking. If you chelate metals from tissues more quickly than you are removing/flushing them from your body, they may get reabsorbed into your body, triggering hvy mtl reactions.

-p
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magoo2
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Posted 4/16/2016 8:19 PM (GMT -8)
clearly you would want to use caution when treating anything. People with chronic
disease are weaker immune wise than most. Need to find doc to help who understands toxic
load of everything they recommend-metals- dental materials-toxins in antiobiotics and other meds

there is reason or reasons why we get chronic disease and other get bit by tick and have no issues-its not just the tick. fix body and treat lyme
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reminder
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Joined : Dec 2015
Posts : 467
Posted 4/17/2016 3:39 AM (GMT -8)
this may be a repeat post on my end,i don't use the computer much due to "light sensations" on eyes.

my protocol......removed candida from blood test profile,anyway......for now,hopefully,long term.

garlic...pills or in meals you prepare.....removed gluten,yeast,sugar,milk. no alcohol. took one teaspoon of food grade hydrogen peroxide w water and used as a mouthwash,morning and evening.....also a tongue scraper...and brushed well....couple different probiotics also.

thus,so far,i have removed flucozanole (script) from my protocol.

this took 5 months and i will stay 90% paleo diet now so i lower chances of candida again.
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Chapelle
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Posted 4/17/2016 4:14 AM (GMT -8)
IMO the best way to fight candida:

(and I agree diet alone is not enough, but it does help)
Eat foods that kill candida - cook with cocounut oil, tumeric, garlic, kale, etc -
Florastor probiotic is a must
Diflucan to start off (maybe daily for 2 weeks max) - monitor liver enzymes
Take something that will heal the "leaky gut" such as L Glutamine
Psyllium husk daily (this helps bind to candida in the GI tract and remove it)
take herbs that kill candida and alternate them every 3-4 weeks - I started with leuricidin, now I am on oregano oil, then I plan to go to black seed oil.

I have candida issues too, and I am doing everything I have mentioned. Good luck!!
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afiya4health
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Joined : Nov 2013
Posts : 196
Posted 4/18/2016 9:16 PM (GMT -8)
Ok thank you everyone.

And I wanted to try Diflucan but my doc instead gave me some other thing for Thrush even though I emphasized that my old LLMD and I believe is systematic. Instead this new llmd gave me a 10 day thing for thrush. Ugh don't even get me started.

And I'm still not clear of what symptoms of heavy metals are? Saying that its the same symptoms as lyme isn't rreally helpful considering that lyme has so many symptoms. I don't have an mercury or metal fillings in my teeth if that helps.
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Chapelle
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Posted 4/19/2016 3:25 AM (GMT -8)
I guess that thing for thrush is nystatin? if so, nystatin only helps clear Candida in the GI tract - Diflucan works systemically. Is your DR an LLMD?
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