lyme-root canal connection? What?

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hornet599
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 226
   Posted 5/2/2016 4:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi All!

I know, there have been discussions about this topic, but I'd like to get ideas/answers for the obvious connection (at least in my case) between tooth and lyme.

I have 6 root canals that I have problems with. They were not very well made and last year my dentist started to open them one-by-one, re-cleaned and tried to close it permanently. At the moment I have 4tooth temporary closed with medicine, and we finished with only one during 1year.
The thing is when the first teeth was re-opened, my symptoms diminished for a while. I believe that there was a connection.
The problem is, every time the dentist tries to permanently close one of the tooth, I start to be bad. Not immediately, but one day later I start to feel sicker and sicker and within a week I am in very-very bad condition. I had three attempts in the last 1/2 year and every time the result is the same: I go back to the dentist within a week and beg to take the filling out. He disagrees, we fight a bit, but he removes the filling. And after it is removed and a temporary medicine filling is put in, I start to feel better, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY (within an hour)!

There is also another connection: when I am in a bad shape, symptoms flare, my root canaled tooth hurt. All of them, but not constantly, but the pain circulating between the root canaled tooth. Not a very unbearable pain, but not pleasant.

So, my dilemma is: to pull out, or not to pull out? All of them, or try pulling out 1-2, and see what happens? The thing is that I spent a lot for these root canals, and now throw it all away? And what next? I read some nightmare stories with implants as well. What would be the best choice?

And do you have any idea how it is connected to lyme? Does borrelia hide in root canals and spread out from there? But this does not explain the slow worsening and very quick positive response after pulling the root canal filling out. Or is it toxins? But if it is toxins why the bacterias don't produce toxins when only a temporary root canal filling is in? Or maybe sensitivity to filling material (less probability). Any thoughts on that?

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 5/2/2016 5:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi hornet--

I am so sorry about the canals and your symptoms. You're definitely in a tough spot. I'll share my opinion but it's just that--I'm not a dental or lyme specialist.

I know you've spent a LOT of money but there is absolutely nothing more important than your health and I challenge you to think ahead 10 yrs an imagine how healthy you think you'll be if you haven't successfully addressed the root canal issue.

Also, 4 canals gone bad is a pattern. There is simply no way for the tooth or the area to be effectively sterilized, which is the one main fault of root canals--regardless of who you are or who is performing it. There is a high risk of the bacteria getting into the jaw bone, a disease that then destroys all of your teeth. You probably already know all this.

I think you'd be better served by talking with a biological dentist about alternatives to the root canals being redone. I can't speak in detail regarding those options are but I bet there is info out there and better alternatives available than returning to your dentist and paying him more money to basically recreate the issue. Some people will tell you that a root canal is a root canal is a root canal. The more modern methodologies are better, for sure. But the canal is trapping the bacteria, period.

A hundred years ago I temp'd for an oral surgeon who was a friend of the family and witnessed implants being installed (it's a sight that one can never forget...) Cavitations can go deep and anytime you start digging around, the bacteria has a chance to spread. However, if done by a top notch oral surgeon in healthy bone, the implants might be a good option.

This also might be a good resource--a book called Cure Tooth Decay. It is for general dental care and cavitation care and root canal prevention but I think there was some info regarding root canals I'll share:
www.curetoothdecay.com/root_canal.htm

In answer to your questions --
I think you're experiencing worsening symptoms when the cavity is closed up because there is nowhere else for the bacteria to go but further into your tissues. When the filling is removed, there is nothing for your body to react to--either because of the bacteria or because your immune system is reactive to it or to the permanent sealant used.

The tie to lyme is a bit more complicated. I know that the issues that bad canals create are very similar to lyme issues but I wonder if the type of dental bacteria involved are also not similar to the spirochete and that might be the connection, rather than the borrelia preferring detail tissue... I really have no idea but maybe the important point is that the specific abx aside, the holistic approach of lyme & co treatment might also help you recover from your symptoms from these canals (microbial treatment, detoxing, immune support, diet, etc...)

ETA: Here is a mercola article--I like most of his info but not always, so read with an open mind:
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/18/dangers-of-root-canaled-teeth.aspx

Hope you get some good info here -

-p

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
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   Posted 5/2/2016 5:36 PM (GMT -7)   
H599-root canals could be the key to getting back your health. Many lyme docs tell patients to pull root canals. Kinghardt-Rau-Yu and many more. You can go review the notes of the lyme summit. You can go to mercola.com and see all of the articles on why you would never want a root canal-toxins-infection-allergy can all be issues with root canals.
One LLMD at the summit said something like he cures 85% of the patients who have root canals-they all pull them out.
Dental can actually be the issue for many chronic disease-there is a reason you got lyme-something must have lowered your body systems-many people get bit by ticks and never get lyme. Root canal could be your main issue. I have seen some amazing things happen after fixing dental-my ibs was cured-up 50lbs.

True some people can have root canals and never get sick-some people can smoke-some people can play with deer ticks.

I would suggest only using a biological dds and three months after surgery getting the biological dds to double check the site. Yes sometimes its needs to be done twice.

Mercolas web site is a great place to start learning about root canals.
FYI-I have been Rau and Yu's patient-both told me that dental is their strongest medicine.
Best of luck

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2195
   Posted 5/2/2016 5:39 PM (GMT -7)   
I definitely second the biological dentist. Here's a link to search IAOMT member dentists - these are dentists educated in biological dentistry.

/iaomt.org/for-patients/search-for-dentist-physician/

I've heard of ozone being used by these dentists. Hopefully you can locate one that can help you. I personally do not have root canals but I did have impacted wisdom teeth removed that I plan to get checked out. I also have a crowned tooth that often bothers me.

Post Edited (k07) : 5/2/2016 6:42:47 PM (GMT-6)


Kathie
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 5/2/2016 5:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Totally agree with Pirouette...I have a mouth full of root canals that need to be extracted.
Everything that I read says they've gotta go! I have some amalgam as well that needs to be removed...an expensive proposition.

One of the first speakers at the recent Lyme conference spoke about the necessity of having root canals removed in order to attain complete health...One of the moderators was taking notes, I believe. (PeteZa, was that you?)

I was pretty discouraged because I just don't have the money for it right now.

All in due time.
Homozygous MTHFR C677T
CDC WB positive 1/2016.
Started Buhner 2/2016.

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/2/2016 7:29 PM (GMT -7)   
PS you may want to google oral spirochete and consider this issue

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9213
   Posted 5/2/2016 7:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Tillybear did the note taking (she did an awesome job!!!), I just saved it in word.

Day 1- Teeth problems, alternative therapy.

MD Dr. Minkoff states in his experience the lyme is usually secondary to other health issues that once corrected pt. gets better quickly. Lyme takes advantage of a damaged host. He says 85% of his pts. get better.

Biggest thing he finds wrong with 80% of lyme pts: dental problems. Gingivitis, dead teeth, root canals, cavitations in jawbone. These are major sources of low grade infection and supression for the immune system, tying up the immune system so it can't deal with other infections.

Esp. root canal as they are chronically infected and lots of biofilms in the tooth structure. The germs cultured from the teeth contain lots of biotoxins which inhibit normal cells from making energy among other things.

Cavitations (hollows left from pulled teeth) in the jawbone have been found to be like a dumpsite with bacteria, toxins, heavy metals, chemicals pesticides.

When he gets a chronic lyme pt., if they have dental problems esp. root canal he is happy because likelihood of improvement after fixing the dental problems.

IAOMT.org is a great place to find the biological dentist in your area.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9213
   Posted 5/2/2016 7:50 PM (GMT -7)   
I was a dental assistant eons ago and pulling a tooth is a very drastic measure. Please go to a good dentist and see what the most modern solution is.

Leaving a hole in your jaw (cavitation) is just as bad as a root canal. There are plenty of other options. Many root canals were filled for years with silver points. They don't use those any more. There are better substances (composites) than metals to fill the root canal.
Lyme Moderator

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/2/2016 8:07 PM (GMT -7)   
You may also want to google Clifford test dental-see what dental materials work with your body-they are in your body forever it makes sense to only use materials that you aren't allergic to

sweetpeaisme
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 498
   Posted 5/2/2016 11:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I had a root canal done waaay back in 1989. It has really bothered me off-n-on over the years. It 'acts up', I go the the dentist who says, "It looks fine, gargle w/salt water". I do that but it flares up again and again. I did heavy metals testing, then 8 sessions on I.V. chelation retested but heavy metals were STILL high. I did an ora, Chelation for awhile and am quite sure I need to do I.v chelation again...

However, I suspect that the silver post in my canal is what's causing the irritation; I'm scared to have it pulled. What if it releases a whole ton of bacteria In bloodstream and I have a heart attack? My grandfather died from septecemia from having a Rotten tooth pulled. What will I put in the voided space? A bridge?

Anyhow I've been wanting get to do this for a few years now, but am chicken...

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/3/2016 5:00 AM (GMT -7)   
sweepeaisme-i would see a biological dds and get the root canal removed.

Leaving a polymicrobial infection in your jaw does not make any sense-removing it
with a dds that understands how the jaw interacts with the body (its connected) makes sense
best of luck

Save the patient not the tooth

Krimpet 🍔
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 3274
   Posted 5/3/2016 5:33 AM (GMT -7)   
Following up to peteza...if you google Dr. Minkoff or Lifeworks Wellness Center you can view his videos regarding Lyme and dental issues.
Krimpet

carla
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 5/3/2016 7:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I have had symptoms for years but nothing I couldn't handle...but when I got a root canal and I did not get it crowned and I was in the middle of a divorce and it was abscessed for God knows how long....I got some awful symptoms..brain lesions..burning all over my body ...really toxic...I hope I can recover because I can't find one person who seems to have some of the issues I do..and It is scary..I went and got all mercury teeth fixed...and had this caviation fixed..but maybe there in one where I had the one root canal pulled...who knows.....

mystery1
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Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 514
   Posted 5/3/2016 3:06 PM (GMT -7)   
hi here is my experience. a couple of months after I was diagnosed with lyme, I went to see a biological dentist after my lyme doctor told me how important it is to have your teeth healthy.

the dentist told me I had 3 abcessed teeth, 2 cavitation, I needed to pull all my root canals. I had already had all mercury fillings removed several years earlier.

I had the 3 infected teeth removed and implants placed. of course I begin to feel better. due to money problems we all can relate, I did not do anything else until I moved to another state and had another lyme stress the importance of getting my teeth all healthy and fixed. I saw another biological dentist is supposed to be one of the best in the country.

he told me I needed to have all root canals pulled. He said he did not see any cavitations. so we began a treatment plan. I had one root canal pulled 6 months ago, and it was infected underneath. I had another abcess had it pulled. I have two more root canals to have pulled over the next 6 months going slow so I can afford it. I had to sell my car to afford the implants.

I can say I do feel a difference and doing much better but I have been getting IV ozone for the last 5 months.

The biological dentist also said I have an allergy to nickel in the crowns I have on the root canals. which is another reason they need to be removed including replacement of my front to crowns which have nickel. if your ears get itchy and red wearing cheap earrings, you have a nickel allergy. they use nickel because it is cheap.

There is also a spirochete shaped bacteria in the mouth called trepnoninm sorry spelling wrong.

I do know it is imperative to get all your root canals pulled, and mercury fillings address cavitation etc. It has killed me having my teeth pulled, but I keep feeling better so I say goodbye to them. I will eventually have implants placed and it is best to use zircon.

multifacetedme
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 1574
   Posted 5/3/2016 3:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Such great info! In the interim - things that I used that helped the journey was swishing my mouth with colloidal silver, and also added a process of swishing with coconut oil - coconut oil pulling. I also swished with a bit of hydrogen peroxide. My tooth pain and jaw pain is resolving. I herxed with the colloidal silver. Oh no re: getting root canals pulled and implants! I aint got the resources for that in the flow of the now. I can't imagine the stress of teeth yanked and implants in.
Questing Health: Dr. #1 - Western Blot and Elisa from a non-lyme lab nearly 100% rules out lyme, Dr. #2 - Naturopath who is symptom free from lyme - clinical diagnosis of lyme and co-infections, Dr. #3, Infectious Disease Dr., Negative blood work rules out lyme and she said "don't you think now that your aneurysm is repaired these other symptoms will clear up?", Dr. #4, Dr. in Chinese med. LYME!

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/3/2016 3:52 PM (GMT -7)   
mystery1-
Thanks so much for posting--you've been on a very powerful journey and I am so glad you're finding relief, one tooth at a time. ;)

I am so glad oil pulling was mentioned... In fact I'm going to create a new post so we can talk about it specifically...

-p
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in 2000; Clinically dx 3/2014 w/ Babs, positive for Bart, CDC-pos for Bb. Multiple viruses & GI/immune treated first; started AL-Complex in May, A-Bart & A-Bab in July; 11/2014 IV port installed, started Rocephin; added vancomycin 3/2016
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle seed/Burdock root cocktail; japanese knotweed, L-5-MTHFR, LMN-V-II, probiotics

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/3/2016 4:58 PM (GMT -7)   
great discussion. I just wanted to add my two cents on implants.
I know way to many good biological dds and alternative docs.
about half told me that implants are a bad as root canals and half
told me the zircona implants are ok.
My St. Louis doc said that one thing that made the most sense-get dentures or a bridge until
you have 1 full year of good health. Seeing him later this week-stomach suddenly isn't right and
my tooth that matches that system hurts even though I have been doing ozone.
Best of luck

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/3/2016 5:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Good points, magoo.

I think it also matters WHO is doing the work.

I don't think all dentists are trained to do oral surgery but many do it. Kind of like dentists doing orthodontia w/ rudimentary "learned it at a conference" training...

I'd find an oral surgeon to do implant work. Unless insurance is involved, this could double the cost. And I'm not sure if there are "biological" oral surgeons but worth a look...

-p
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in 2000; Clinically dx 3/2014 w/ Babs, positive for Bart, CDC-pos for Bb. Multiple viruses & GI/immune treated first; started AL-Complex in May, A-Bart & A-Bab in July; 11/2014 IV port installed, started Rocephin; added vancomycin 3/2016
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle seed/Burdock root cocktail; japanese knotweed, L-5-MTHFR, LMN-V-II, probiotics

mystery1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 514
   Posted 5/3/2016 5:11 PM (GMT -7)   
yes I am finally getting some relief it has been 21/2 years now.
Registered Nurse in tennessee: sick since high fever in 1994. polydrugged over 20 yrs. Misdiagnosed, bedridden 2012 to 2014.

Lyme disease first diagnosis: may 2013. second diagnosis: oct 2013. Md said I had for 20 years

tx: Iv biweekly ozone, nasal for fungus in sinus, and ear for fungus. supplements young living essential oil protocol with thieves, and immunopower, thyme,cypress, oregano

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/3/2016 7:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Mystery1 how long have you been doing ozone? Just curious about how long it take
I an on week seven of ozone sauna and nasal-going to get a couple ozone IVs later this week.

hornet599
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 226
   Posted 5/4/2016 1:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow! Very good discussion, thank you for the posts!

Mystery1: could I ask, when did you feel that the dental work helped with your health? Was it immediate positive effect after a root canaled tooth was removed, or wasn't it that obvious?

As for my dentist: I go to top dentists here, where I live. My earlier dentist who did the original root canals is a bunglar. Then I tried a very good dentist where I got laser sterilization, beyond chemical, made very good work, but did not work. Now, I went to the best endodontist in the country to try to treat the root canals with a microscope (as I heard this is the top now). This is my 4th teeth that is temporary sealed right now. And here is the choice: should I make a try to end all root canaled tooth with this treatment for a lot of money, or should I just have it remove?
As I understand from your posts, zirkonia implants are kind of safe.

And one thing: I read that extracting a tooth is not always enough - especially if the jaw bone was infected too, so some special procedure is necessary right after the extraction (extract some bone from the jaw, or something like that?).
Tick bite: 1997
First symptoms: 2008 (yersinia)
Neuro symptoms knocked me out: 01/14
Diagnosed with lyme: 03/14
Diagnosed with borrelia/bartonella/babesia: 02/15
Currently on full cowden.

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/4/2016 8:35 PM (GMT -7)   
I do know far to many biological dds-Cook-Margolis-Huggins ( before he passed) and a guy named Andys in Switzerland and a couple others. They all would say remove root canals-and yes clean out any infected bone-which may mean more than one procedure and then get rechecked in maybe three months.

My experience is around the end of week two you can notice a difference

Mercola has some good articles-you may want to read. Many- many docs write on this. Some of them are on youtube also

Girlie mom
New Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/5/2016 9:03 PM (GMT -7)   
What were some of the symptoms associated with root canal / lymes? Did you have vertigo ? Did it seem your ear was blocked? I am so close to getting mine out but my my Lymes dr. Told me to wait! What would you do?

Post Edited (Girlie mom) : 5/5/2016 10:17:34 PM (GMT-6)


magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 5/6/2016 6:07 AM (GMT -7)   
I never had vertigo but know people who cured their vertigo by getting a cavitation cleaned out.
You root canals isn't helping you-they are a source of polymicrobiial infections-keeping a dead tooth in you just makes not sense at all. google the words electron microscope tooth and you can see how pourous a tooth is-makes a nice home for various bugs

Mississippi Jane
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 5/9/2016 3:30 AM (GMT -7)   
I had 6- 7 root canals decades ago. Every one got sore in recent years. All felt like abscess teeth, but the dentist said that was impossible because the tooth was dead, as was the nerve.

After having those teeth removed, I had implants done, and I do think that was the right thing for me. I was able to save close to 50% of the cost of removal and implants by using the dental college in Memphis, TN. University of Tennessee Dental College is a great school and one of the only teaching colleges allowing students to use live patients.

While having the work done, I had the feeling that my right jawbone was sick--weird because I've never heard anyone say a bone was sick. It stayed sore to the touch, and it is sometimes sore even now.

I don't know if the Memphis area has a biological dentist. I mentioned Lyme to my student dentists, and none were aware of biological dentists.
Bulls eye rash, EBV 2012, headaches, low bod temp, red eyes, ridged nails, itchiness non-functioning gall bladder. Former sx: night sweats, occipital neuralgia, motion sickness, Lyme rage, anxiety, fluid in ears, constant sleepiness.
LLMD Clinical Diagnosis for Lyme Sept 2014
IGeneX IGM neg: 18 kDa + 41 kDa ind
IGenX IGG ind: 31 kDa + 41 kDa +++ 58 kDa +
MTHFR C677T Heterozygous
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