I am using IV abx for bart and lyme and I've also been using herbal antimicrobials throughout my treatment. I'll share a few thoughts:
My symptoms all seem to be brain based (massive fatigue, spaciness, reduced memory, cognitive slowness, twitches of eyelids/big toes etc)...
These can also be caused by gut dysbiosis due to the now-proven gut-brain connection - there have been many discussion about
this on the forum so you can do a search.
Also, the twitching can be due to magnesium deficiency (we've had good discussions here about
magnesium - "astroman" is well-versed in this topic as well, you can do a search). Before embarking on an antimicrobial approach, I would explore these two possibilities as causes underlying those symptoms.
...and it seems as though Ive had lyme for awhile (10/10 igg), though only became symptomatic a few months back...
In the case of lyme & co, the IgM vs IgG responses are not as meaningful. Our immune systems don't react in classical ways that suggest IgM are new and IgG are older responses to infection. In fact, many pathogens create unorthodox responses, which suggests that maybe the orthodox assumptions are not just a little off but very off.
...alot of what ive read has said that neuro lyme is usually treated with IV antibiotics (alot of this comes from official CDC/IDSA viewpoints on the web admittedly)
First, the CDC is not a reliable source regarding lyme & co diagnosis and treatment. They subscribe to a very narrow and antiquated definition of lyme that excludes many strains and the adverse manifestations to those strains (which is also one reason why the testing and treatment they promote are not effective). They also do not understand or acknowledge herbal treatments.
...however can people recover from neuro utlilizing herbals or conventional antibiotics as well? Id prefer not having to add the extra variable of a picc line and all it entails...I have found that starting Buhner has exacerbated by brain issues more, presumably by creating neurotoxins by being effective??
YES - I think it's exactly that - the antimicrobials are producing neurotoxins so you need to step up the detox. Try adding BurBur to the pinella to help the brain metabolize the treatment better. Controlling inflammation is another supportive mechanism that helps manage herxing. Japanese Knotweed is good for that but it is also an antimicrobial so you have to slowly work up to higher doses.
Unfortunately, only the recent science has been useful in understanding the complexities of the lyme microbe and how different these strains are and how those strains uniquely manifest into illness but you gotta start somewhere and Buhner is great for that.
It's a unique journey
First - each case is unique. There is a LOT we don't know about
which pathogens we're infected with and how to treat for them. Abx and herbs work differently and we certainly don't know everything there is to know about
how this benefits or works against us. After trial-and-error, we figure out what works for us and monitor it over time and adjust when needed.
This is also key - the treatment you start out with is not what you'll end up with - our bodies are a very dynamic environment - constantly changing since we're killing something and the level of that pathogen changes, our response to treatment changes, and the impact on our bodies from both changes over time.
Penetrating the blood-brain barrier
There are a few ways to do this, as already discussed. Also, as important as the antimicrobial approach is managing the herxing with effective and well-managed detox. The brain is kind of a unique environment so the detoxing needs to target the brain.
As others have suggested - sometimes you have to lower the antimicrobials and increase the detox. We often want to implement a program and "stick with it" - our treatment is complicated enough as it is. But sometimes, we have to make adjustments from day-to-day so that the killing process is well-balanced by the detoxing process. It really helps to maintain a journal to help you keep track of your daily symptoms and reactions.
So, back to your previous question - there are really 3 main decision points in treatment and once you make the initial decision, there are multiple other decisions about
your treatment that follow. abx or herbs?
Since each of us has a unique condition, and the abx and herbs work differently, most of us have incorporated both abx and herbs. Sometimes we start out with one and end up with the other or adding the other. We don't always know how we're going to herx and sometimes herxing with one approach is more manageable than the other.IV vs oral abx
If we do choose abx (even in conjunction with herbs) some people explore IV. Here is a recent thread with a (very long, detailed) post I made about
the IV vs oral decision (it is a complicated approach to treatment so it's a long list of details)... I've been using IV for 18 months and like anyone else, my experience is unique. In the end, I think IV is most beneficial if you have severe GI issues. www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3674546
Some reasons IV is prescribed:
- Some MDs will want to try orals first before IV and some insurance companies will require oral first.
- Some MDs assume neuro cases require IV to get into the spinal fluid and brain. I know there are oral abx that pass through the blood-brain barrier and I think this is true for spinal fluids as well.
- Some MDs feel due to the level of infection that IV responds more urgently.
- One main benefit of IV is that it can bypass absorption directly through the gut - the abx eventually get into the gut, so you still have to protect it, but it is often used precisely because it is easier on people with GI issues.
- It's not necessarily the only way chronic sufferers can heal - and even if it is successful for you, there is still a whole lot more to do to heal than just abx.
- Some people think IV is more "powerful" or effective than oral but this isn't necessarily true. As ALWAYS w/ lyme treatment - what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for someone else.
I hope this is helpful. There are MANY different protocols being employed by members on this forum so it's a great resource. Keep asking questions if you need to -