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pmm73
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 805
   Posted 10/19/2016 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry if this seems like TMI!
Seems like I'm in a big ol' jumbled mess of symptoms right now - some due to herx, some due to the abx itself, and some due to my menstrual cycle. I've always had bad PMS symptoms and they have gotten worse. Over the past year or so, it seems the symptoms start mid-cycle to the day I get my period. Night sweats, fatigue, bloating, bone/muscle pain, and irritability. As soon as I begin my period, I instantly feel better (well, except for the cramps lol). It happens that suddenly; literally overnight.

I know there is a lot of overlap in symptoms, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Clearly, my hormones are coming into play. Do I get my hormone levels checked? Do I treat the PMS symptoms as something on their own or do I treat as Lyme symptoms gone out of control? (I'm not even sure if that question makes sense lol) Is it as simple as taking midol (or a midol-like product) or do I add more Lyme protocol herbs? Or is there something particular that can be added during certain times of the month?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 1:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I think getting your hormone levels checked is a good idea...then you know what you're dealing with.

I think these symptoms could be separate from lyme, but lyme is exacerbating it.

For me, lyme hit and my hormones tanked. Prior to lyme, I was fine...no symptoms, periods never really bothered me...
I tried the bio-identical hormone replacement - and it did not help...in fact after a couple of weeks on it , was when the nervous system vibrations started. I had started with 1/4 dose....then 1/2 dose and then finally full dose.

I stopped. ( I gave it about 4-6 weeks) - and strange thing is 5 months after stopping, my estrogen level was high...after it being almost 'nil' when I went on the hormone replacement.

So, for me, the symptoms - hot sweats, depression, anxiety - were most likely lyme and co's derived...and perhaps put me into sudden menopause. Pre-lyme I had no symptoms of peri-menopause...other than my periods weren't as regular as they had been previously. Instead of being like clock work - every 26-28 days...it would sometimes be 30 or 35 days apart. (Can't remember exactly)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Krimpet 🍔
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 3275
   Posted 10/19/2016 1:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Highly recommend checking your hormone levels.
Lyme Moderator
October words of encouragement: "You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher

jennydancingfish
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I have girl question!
I am 22. The first week on rifampin MY BOOBS GREW. 😅
Currently with LLMD planning on doing modified Cowden Protocol and Buhner
Switched to this route after very bad herxing on rifampin
Diagnosed with Bartonella and Lyme. Twin has Bartonella and Mycoplasma and Lyme.
Twin improving on rifampin, zithromax, and tinidazole. Anger, rage, explosivity, emotional volatility, head and bone squeezing, sense of overheatedness all improved.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:01 PM (GMT -6)   
jennydancingfish said...
I have girl question!
I am 22. The first week on rifampin MY BOOBS GREW. 😅


Sorry, I don't have an explanation for that...I'm not aware of Rifampin affecting hormones....
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Snarf
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 97
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Get your hormone levels checked. I'm about to go on natural progesterone cream and have similar symptoms (even before the Lyme). I have read that addressing hormone imbalances can help with Lyme treatment.

blueberrymuffin
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 1467
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:37 PM (GMT -6)   
jennydancingfish said...
I have girl question!
I am 22. The first week on rifampin MY BOOBS GREW. 😅


how long are you taking Rifa? now are they still enlarged?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Snarf said...
Get your hormone levels checked. I'm about to go on natural progesterone cream and have similar symptoms (even before the Lyme). I have read that addressing hormone imbalances can help with Lyme treatment.


I have progesterone cream sitting on my counter...finally had it compounded...but haven't started taking it.

I tried it once - right after lyme diagnosis...and it didn't seem to help...but I'm thinking I should try it again.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

3HumpedCamel
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 578
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
pmm73, I have almost the same monthly cycle of heck as you do.

After I went into remission, I went to a bioidentical hormone doc because I was having issues with working out & energy & have struggled with PMS & cramps especially more recently. Turns out my testosterone was in the tank and my estrogen wasn't behaving properly. So, we started with progesterone & testosterone... it affected me the opposite it should. I felt terrible and put on a lot of weight (generally it works the other way). It felt very wrong, so I stopped. It's when I found out I had all the CIRS markers and started re-treating.

so, again, I reacted like Girlie and I believe my issues are Lyme related issues. I went back to square 1.

i owe the guy blood work though. I want to see where I stand now. i will be on most of the myco/bart herbal treatment by the time I get blood work done in 3 weeks.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:48 PM (GMT -6)   
True with the hormone balancing helping with everything! Our hormones can easily get out of whack due to things like these infections, treating these infections, the moon phases and more! I've had a lot of "female issues" because of all of these things.

Jenny, I would say that it is likely due to hormonal changes for you as well. Funny thing (but VERY true!), in my family, the women will usually gain a cup size after the age of 40 - well for me it happened at the age of 51!! I'm telling ya, it's not fair to do that to someone!! LOL! I was having my hormones checked, and my estrogen was at zero, so I haven't worried about it, but I sure have cussed them things!!

Girlie, do be sure to use it for 2 months or more before making any decisions if it's helping or not. It brought about subtle changes for me and it took me 2 months, then I stopped for 2 weeks and realized I'm a much nicer person if I use it regularly. Ha ha!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay, Traveler, I will do two months...if I don't feel a change after one month. But, if I feel worse...not sure i will stick with it.

I think I gave the progesterone cream only a month the last time...I can't remember.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Definitely, if you feel worse, stop using it!! No matter how long you have been using it, especially if you can tie it to using the hormones! Just like 3humpedcamel said, it all went haywire for her.

I need to get my hormones checked again, but lack the funds. I bet I'm low in testosterone as well.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 3:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I was low in testosterone...but my LLND didn't want to supplement it.
That's when he gave me the pregnenalone - he said it could help with my low testosterone and progesterone.

I was low in DHEA as well.

It's sitting on my counter, as well...haha
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

artermix
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 1239
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
pmm73......yes Lyme toys with thyroid and hormonal function. I was having peri-menopause signs prior to lyme. Hot flushes and longer cycle due to delayed ovulation. With lyme it got worse. Like yourself I feel great after period. But 20 days prior to that is hell. Traditionally it was usually that I didn't have much PMS and had energy surges and increased thirst prior to period (this is all pre lyme). Now it is all different. I am always tired, and no energy surges. Progesterone levels are also lower because effected from lyme.

I can deal with regular peri-menopause without the lyme.
Contracted lyme in 2015.
First bite untreated. Second bite treated according to CDC guidelines and within 10 hrs from bite.
April: ELISA & WB positive (2 bands)
May & June: Oreganol, Eulueothero, Magnesium and some cats claw.
July: Amoxicillin 4000 mg a day for 30 days in July 1 ended in Aug 1.
August: begins basic Buhner protocol.
September: Basic Buhner protocol + specific herbs

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Definitely give the DHEA another try, Girlie!

"Overview

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a hormone produced by the body's adrenal glands. The body uses DHEA to make androgens and estrogens, the male and female sex hormones. DHEA levels peak at about age 25, then go down steadily as you get older. By the time people are 70 to 80 years old, their DHEA levels are only 10 to 20% those in young adults.

Because levels of DHEA decline with age, researchers have wondered if DHEA could work as an anti-aging treatment. In older people, lower than normal levels of DHEA have been associated with osteoporosis, heart disease, memory loss, and breast cancer. But there's no proof that low levels of DHEA cause these conditions, or that taking DHEA can help prevent them. Plus DHEA supplements vary widely in quality. Many products tested don't have the amount of DHEA in them that the label says they do.

Also, DHEA supplements can have side effects. They may lower levels of HDL "good" cholesterol in the body, and in women they may raise levels of testosterone, as well as estrogen.

The DHEA in supplements is a synthetic hormone, so you should talk to your doctor before taking it."

umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/dehydroepiandrosterone
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Krimpet 🍔
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 3275
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Like most of us, my hormones tanked when I got sick. First things first, adrenals....which my doctor#2 got me started on at my last appointment. I decided to do adrenal cortex as opposed to the low dose hydrocortisone....but will revisit IF I have to. Should be an interesting appointment tomorrow since he doesn't know that I opted for the cortex. Not sure what he's going to recommend next.
Oh the joy of being a woman 😂.
Lyme Moderator
October words of encouragement: "You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher

artermix
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 1239
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I love to try DHEA my self but unless I need it I am not going to try it.
It is a supplement used in body building too but it is a steroidal substance actually. That really makes me nervous. As I said unless I lack of it.
Contracted lyme in 2015.
First bite untreated. Second bite treated according to CDC guidelines and within 10 hrs from bite.
April: ELISA & WB positive (2 bands)
May & June: Oreganol, Eulueothero, Magnesium and some cats claw.
July: Amoxicillin 4000 mg a day for 30 days in July 1 ended in Aug 1.
August: begins basic Buhner protocol.
September: Basic Buhner protocol + specific herbs

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:20 PM (GMT -6)   
It's not just a body building steroid - it's being misused in that context.

I picked through some of the information from the link I posted above to show examples of why we need to have appropriate levels of DHEA as well:
"Metabolic syndrome

Studies show DHEA helps reduce abdominal fat and improve insulin resistance. Other studies suggest that DHEA helps reduce inflammation in the arteries and reduce arterial stiffness.

Adrenal insufficiency

DHEA is one of the hormones made by the adrenal glands. With adrenal insufficiency, the adrenal glands do not make enough hormones, including DHEA and cortisol. That happens either because of problems with the pituitary gland or damage to the adrenal glands themselves (also called Addison's disease).

Several studies suggest that taking DHEA may help improve mood, fatigue, and well being. In one study, women with this condition who took DHEA supplements reported improved sexuality and sense of well being, including fewer feelings of depression and anxiety.

Adrenal insufficiency requires a doctor's care. You shouldn't take DHEA on your own for adrenal insufficiency. Severe adrenal insufficiency can be a medical emergency, especially when first diagnosed.

Depression

A few studies of people with major depression found that DHEA improved symptoms compared to placebo. The results aren't entirely clear, and researchers don't know what the long-term effects of taking DHEA might be. More research is needed. Don't try to treat depression by yourself. People with depression need medical care.

Osteoporosis

Preliminary studies suggest that DHEA may help reduce bone loss in older women. It doesn't seem to have the same effect in men. And in one study it didn't help women who were under age 70.

Obesity

Studies using DHEA to treat overweight people have found conflicting results. Animal studies have found DHEA to help reduce body weight. Human studies found that taking DHEA didn't change total body weight. But it did improve total body fat and LDL ("bad") cholesterol. More research is needed.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

gabybee
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 207
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:20 PM (GMT -6)   
I too had really bad PMS symptoms, to the point where I thought I had PMDD because the only time I actually felt good was during my period....after that, it switched to me feeling absolutely awful during my period once I began lyme protocol.

All I can say is that as time went on and I continued to treat the Lyme without really putting particular emphasis on any one thing my PMS symptoms went away. Now I only feel bad about a day before my period.

I'm not sure if it helps, but for me it was just as simple as continuing on my antibiotic treatment.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler said...
Definitely give the DHEA another try, Girlie!

"Overview

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a hormone produced by the body's adrenal glands. The body uses DHEA to make androgens and estrogens, the male and female sex hormones. DHEA levels peak at about age 25, then go down steadily as you get older. By the time people are 70 to 80 years old, their DHEA levels are only 10 to 20% those in young adults.

Because levels of DHEA decline with age, researchers have wondered if DHEA could work as an anti-aging treatment. In older people, lower than normal levels of DHEA have been associated with osteoporosis, heart disease, memory loss, and breast cancer. But there's no proof that low levels of DHEA cause these conditions, or that taking DHEA can help prevent them. Plus DHEA supplements vary widely in quality. Many products tested don't have the amount of DHEA in them that the label says they do.

Also, DHEA supplements can have side effects. They may lower levels of HDL "good" cholesterol in the body, and in women they may raise levels of testosterone, as well as estrogen.

The DHEA in supplements is a synthetic hormone, so you should talk to your doctor before taking it."

umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/dehydroepiandrosterone


Well, it's not DHEA i have - it's the precursor - pregnenalone...my post was confusing - the pregnenalone will help raise the levels of dhea, and progesterone. It's higher up on the pyramid....but it can sometimes raise cortisol levels...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

artermix
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 1239
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I did not say it was for bodybuilding only. I said it is also used in Body Building. Unless a person is not producing the right levels then it is necessary. I read extensively on it and I guess testing only can help to understand if a person needs it or not.
Contracted lyme in 2015.
First bite untreated. Second bite treated according to CDC guidelines and within 10 hrs from bite.
April: ELISA & WB positive (2 bands)
May & June: Oreganol, Eulueothero, Magnesium and some cats claw.
July: Amoxicillin 4000 mg a day for 30 days in July 1 ended in Aug 1.
August: begins basic Buhner protocol.
September: Basic Buhner protocol + specific herbs

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 10/19/2016 4:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Exactly, we MUST test hormones before we just start taking them, or we could end up in a worse situation than we already are!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

jennydancingfish
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/19/2016 7:40 PM (GMT -6)   
My twins lyme actually started as pmdd! First symptom.

Haha muffin they want back to normal. I thpught maybe bart hadnt let me finish puberty? Lol. Im 22 though maybe thats too old?
Currently with LLMD planning on doing modified Cowden Protocol and Buhner
Switched to this route after very bad herxing on rifampin
Diagnosed with Bartonella and Lyme. Twin has Bartonella and Mycoplasma and Lyme.
Twin improving on rifampin, zithromax, and tinidazole. Anger, rage, explosivity, emotional volatility, head and bone squeezing, sense of overheatedness all improved.

jennydancingfish
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/19/2016 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I was bummed traveler i would love to go up a cup im thin not well endowed 😂 prob the only lyme antibiotic effect i squealed in glee over EVER
Currently with LLMD planning on doing modified Cowden Protocol and Buhner
Switched to this route after very bad herxing on rifampin
Diagnosed with Bartonella and Lyme. Twin has Bartonella and Mycoplasma and Lyme.
Twin improving on rifampin, zithromax, and tinidazole. Anger, rage, explosivity, emotional volatility, head and bone squeezing, sense of overheatedness all improved.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 10/19/2016 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
jennydancingfish said...
I was bummed traveler i would love to go up a cup im thin not well endowed 😂 prob the only lyme antibiotic effect i squealed in glee over EVER


I had the opposite problem, jenny! (not from hormones or lyme treatment though)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.
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