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mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 11/17/2016 2:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Disulfiram is used to treat chronic alcoholism (it gives u massive headaches and vomiting only if u drink alcohol while taking it). It crosses the BBB, thus produces these headaches in people drinking alcohol. It is not a known antimicrobial, so should not affect the flora.

It has been found to have excellent anti Borrelia persister activity, better than Vancomycin, Ceftriaxone, Doxy, etc... and again, it crosses the BBB... This is very nice, because the other chemicals that achieve this are either very expensive antibiotics, or extremely toxic cancer drugs. This Disulfiram is neither and it is currently available in pharmacies for alcoholism treatment, and considered very safe (unless of course you are planning to get drunk while taking it).

This has been confirmed by at least two independent teams so far:
www.contagionlive.com/news/new-drugs-could-help-combat-chronic-lyme-disease


..and K. Lewis' team, which presented this at Mount Sinai conference 3 weeks ago:

/youtu.be/aUlKTnrGPgc?t=2313

He claims Disulfiram completely sterilizes Borrelia and they are now starting it on mouse models.

I was wondering if anyone sick here has taken Disulfiram (Antabus) by accident and seen any kind of reaction...

Post Edited (mpost) : 11/17/2016 12:44:12 AM (GMT-7)


Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 11/17/2016 8:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Well, you have to understand their mindset when dealing with these infections.

Here's what they think of chronic Lyme, from a link in that article, and from the same author:
www.contagionlive.com/news/longterm-antibiotics-no-benefit-for-chronic-lyme-disease-symptoms
"Long-Term Antibiotics No Benefit for Chronic Lyme Disease Symptoms" where they have listed a TON of misinformation.

We also know that Borrelia acts very differently in the lab than it does in the body. So, while this is very interesting to watch and see where it goes, I wouldn't encourage anyone to follow their recommendations at all yet. They don't even know the basics about those disease, seems pretty odd to think they can come up with solutions until they at least learn that much.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2555
   Posted 11/17/2016 8:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Do you think it works better than dapsone?

For some reason my instincts are telling me to hold off on the dapsone. My doctor keeps pushing it. I've been holding somewhat steady on herbs. I added stevia back in for biofilm - this time 4 drops under tongue 1-2x a day. I try to do it 15 minutes before herb dose.

Thanks for sharing.

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2555
   Posted 11/17/2016 8:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I just watched the presentation - very exciting. I've suddenly become an alcoholic (-: He says it is a relatively very safe drug - I would much rather try this than dapsone. I know he just got more money for research so hoping they can move a bit faster with all this.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 11/17/2016 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Disulfiram biological half-life is 60–120 hours. Wow! Compare that to ceftriaxone which has a half-life of 8hrs.

"Disulfiram should not be taken if alcohol has been consumed in the last 12 hours.[6] There is no tolerance to disulfiram: the longer it is taken, the stronger its effects.[7] As disulfiram is absorbed slowly through the digestive tract and eliminated slowly by the body, the effects may last for up to two weeks after the initial intake; consequently, medical ethics dictate that patients must be fully informed about the disulfiram-alcohol reaction.[8]"
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram

Isn't that nice ? It accumulates in tissues and gets removed very slowly, and it crosses the BBB.

"DSF has good safety profiles and penetrates the blood-brain barrier."
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23047041

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2555
   Posted 11/17/2016 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I wonder if you even need to take it daily?

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 11/18/2016 6:26 AM (GMT -6)   
i'd wait for k. Lewis to finish his mouse model studies first, before self medicating. Should not take long.
Self medication is dangerous, so i'd talk to the GP/LLMD first before trying this. Especially if you have taken metronidazole the weeks before, as part of your lyme treatment, taking this drug can be very dangerous. Then, any kind of tiny alcohol that you may ingest through the skin or by mouth (mouth wash, tinctures, etc) can cause a very bad reaction.

Candida and other yeasts, if you have them in large amounts in your intestine, they will produce ethanol
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16772842

So really really a bad idea to take Disulfiram if u have a systemic yeast issue. Bottom line never self medicate, we just dont know all the consequences, we think we do... we don't ...

Anyway, the full research paper from the first team of researchers can be found here
/www.dovepress.com/identification-of-new-drug-candidates-against-borrelia-burgdorferi-usi-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-DDDT

the relevant quote:
"An interesting drug candidate identified in the study was the alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitor, disulfiram. Though the drug is used as a treatment of alcohol abuse, recently its anticancer potential has also been discovered. It has been known to make complexes with metal ions and cause the disruption of the proteasome, leading to death of the cancer cells. Similarly, the metabolites of the drug molecule have been known to significantly inhibit the growth of a number of bacterial species, including the biofilm-forming Pseudomonas aeruginosa. The drug molecule has a good bioavailability, and it passes the blood–brain barrier to show its effect in the central nervous system. Though most of the studies are concerned to the use of the drug molecule in alcoholism yet, being a safe, FDA-approved molecule, the drug can be repurposed for its antibacterial potential ".

probably k. lewis will publish something about his mouse models with this drug soon, so you will see more soon, ill update this thread.

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2555
   Posted 11/18/2016 8:08 AM (GMT -6)   
I would never self medicate! I think you misunderstood my questions. I see one of the best llmd's in the country but he is big on dapsone since he is doing clinical trials in his office.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 11/18/2016 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
k07 that's cool, it's nice to have access to such good LLMD and be able to get into these clinical trials. my message was not for you specifically (i know you are doing your homework and read a lot of research stuff), but i realized i just posted content on the lyme board about yet another "miracle drug" that cures lyme.

There are people here that would probably try anything, don't want to cause any harm to them because they dont realize the consequences, and as Traveler said, this is a very complicated disease, chances are recovery will always mean more than just taking one pill....

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 11/18/2016 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
And, I for one, appreciate your being conscientious about this, Mpost! We simply never know who only reads our posts.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

finisului17
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 233
   Posted 11/18/2016 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello everybody,

thank you mpost for the new info.More alcoholic members could chime in regarding herxing on disulfiram.

And ko7 I think I know who you are seeing(also read the study). blush I congratulate you as he has very good results.

Hello Traveler! smilewinkgrin Nice seeing that you are still so active.

I wish everybody a nice weekend!

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 2/28/2017 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
well, Dr. Zhang says disulfiram is not very effective, so contradicting the previous claims from the other two teams of researchers:

/youtu.be/YsitQjnJ6I8?t=6985

it's Antabus, the drug that treats chronic alcoholism. Has anyone tried this, incidentally or part of a trial ?

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 7/10/2017 3:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Kim Lewis discussing on Fox5NY about disulfiram, which he is testing now on mice and will publish a paper in summer of 2017 this year

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCxA0Vmqb2o

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 7/27/2017 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Found a possible mechanism of action for Disulfiram, well explained in case of Mycobacterium tuberculosis.

As you know, there are a number of TB drugs that are now re-purposed to be used to kill Borrelia (such as pyrazinamide).

The following article shows a potential way in which Disulfiram may get Copper ions (Cu) inside the bacterial cell, where they should never reach in normal circumstances, and where they can interact with a number of enzymes and internal structures of bacteria, including Borrelia, in a way in which would render their metabolism pathological and ultimately kill them.

aac.asm.org/content/59/8/4835.full

Proposed mechanism:
aac.asm.org/content/59/8/4835/F7.expansion.html

This has the hallmarks of a pretty nice prodrug just like 5-Nitro compounds (like metronidazole/tinidazole) which get into the cell and then they combine there to create something toxic, so they work regardless of the bacteria metabolism, they are toxic inside the dormant persister cells, does not matter if tehy dividing or not
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrug

Dear Mr. Kim Lewis we are waiting for you to publish your mouse model study with Disulfiram ;)

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 4/1/2018 10:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Identification of disulfiram as a secretase-modulating compound with beneficial effects on Alzheimer’s disease hallmarks

/www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-19577-7

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 4/17/2018 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Disulfiram-based disulfides as narrow-spectrum antibacterial agents.

Sixteen disulfides derived from disulfiram (Antabuse™) were evaluated as antibacterial agents. Derivatives with hydrocarbon chains of seven and eight carbons in length exhibited antibacterial activity against Gram-positive Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Enterococcus, Bacillus, and Listeria spp. A comparison of the cytotoxicity and microsomal stability with disulfiram further revealed that the eight carbon chain analog was of lower toxicity to human hepatocytes and has a longer metabolic half-life. In the final analysis, this investigation concluded that the S-octylthio derivative is a more effective growth inhibitor of Gram-positive bacteria than disulfiram and exhibits more favorable cytotoxic and metabolic parameters over disulfiram.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29571571

Garion
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 4/19/2018 2:32 PM (GMT -6)   
@mpost, what does all of that mean?

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 4/19/2018 2:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Garion said...
@mpost, what does all of that mean?


means other teams are looking into disulfiram as narrow spectrum antibiotic and it may be the same effects apply to Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Enterococcus, Bacillus, Listeria also apply to Borrelia, so maybe the S-octylthio derivative of disulfiram is even better at treating lyme than disulfiram itself, which already seems fantastic... The derivative also seems less hepato toxic than disulfiram, so even better...

Sheeks175
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 284
   Posted 4/19/2018 5:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Good stuff Mpost. Do we know where K Lewis is with the trials of disulfiram?

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 5/10/2018 9:50 AM (GMT -6)   
more clues from Northeastern that Disulfiram may have passed trials in mice as chronic lyme treatment:

Today Northeastern released this general piece about lyme and ticks
/news.northeastern.edu/2018/05/10/ticks-creep-into-the-city-bringing-lyme-disease-with-them/

However, in the article there is a mentioning of a compound, although indirect (but we know this is about disulfiram from K. Lewis' presentations and the fact he was testing it on mice).

"
His team has been searching for a compound that selectively kills Borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria that causes Lyme disease, without exterminating our gut bacteria. And they found one that works in mice. The next step is to test the compound in another animal, and then eventually in humans. This will take about two more years, Lewis said."

That is GOOD NEWS, and something we were expecting to hear! So u can take this disulfiram for months, it will not kill your gut bacteria, no need for probiotics, but it will hit borrelia persisters and growing form very very hard. It crosses the BBB very well and has a very good half life. And it works on mice! So no longer just in vitro test!

Mr. Lewis pls publish the paper with the mice trials smile

Getting closer to a cure?

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2555
   Posted 5/10/2018 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Awesome - thanks for staying on top of the news!

dbwilco
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 297
   Posted 5/10/2018 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
well between lewis and his team at northeastern....the super team of spector,zhang,embers,phillips and the galaxy guy and whatever eva sapi is doing there has GOTTA be something good on the horizon....just looking at posts here from 2010, and we seem to know ALOT more about treatment, just on this board....hoping that they come up with some help for us that will literally change the paradigm....

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33957
   Posted 5/10/2018 3:01 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
Garion said...
@mpost, what does all of that mean?


means other teams are looking into disulfiram as narrow spectrum antibiotic and it may be the same effects apply to Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Enterococcus, Bacillus, Listeria also apply to Borrelia, so maybe the S-octylthio derivative of disulfiram is even better at treating lyme than disulfiram itself, which already seems fantastic... The derivative also seems less hepato toxic than disulfiram, so even better...


I really don't know what I'm talking about ....but aren't lyme and co's gram-negative bacteria? (and Staph, Strep..etc are gram positive?)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 5/10/2018 3:28 PM (GMT -6)   
campother.blogspot.com/2012/02/memo-borrelia-are-not-gram-negative.html

borrelia is unlike anything else. that is why is killed by some freak chemical that is not even sold as antibiotic...

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2302
   Posted 5/11/2018 5:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for awesome update!!!
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