My Dental Cavitation Adventure

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TrialbyLyme
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 11/27/2016 8:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Well shortly I am traveling 6000 miles to address at least one jawbone cavitation in this crazy Lyme journey.

I had an infection under 2 root canals in my jawbone almost 3 years ago that 3 dentists missed (besides my persistence of swelling and pain). Then I found a holistic DDS who discovered it. I had to have the 2 teeth extracted. This was before I was diagnosed with Lyme. My extractions and infection were taken care of by a non-holistic oral surgeon.

A year later all my jaw, phantom tooth, face, eye, ear, neck pain came back with a vengeance. Once again, multiple dentists told me everything looked fine; it was all my in head and I just need braces or a new night guard. But I knew it wasn't as the pain was absolutely unbearable and my face, eye, and lymph nodes would swell. How can that be normal?!? Pretty sure the infection is there again.

Last year I was finally diagnosed with Lyme after being bit in 1982 as a little one. I came to this forum desperate and I believe divinely led to AMAZING and BRILLIANT people. One such person talked about Lyme and jaw infections and a dentist that helped them with their cavitations and health. This holistic DDS says you have to have 40% bone loss before it will show up on an x-ray. Sounds like Lyme testing odds!! Hmm. I actually had an a regular bite wing x-ray last week for my records for the new dentist and this time he(my current dentist)could see bone loss in my jaw. It looked pretty gnarly actually. I will be curious to see what the biological DDS finds as he tests the pathology and DNA of the bone, infection, etc.

I don't know if this will be a cure-all. But I do hope it will take a huge toxic burden out of my body. Yes we will be spending $1000's that I wish we could spend on a cruise or new car or save for retirement. But that's ok. If I can have a semblance of a life back it's worth it. My Lyme doc is 100% on board and says I may have a fighting chance now since I don't seem to respond to treatment. It's like a chicken or egg thing. Is my jaw infection not going away because of the Lyme, or is the Lyme not responding because of the jaw infection??

Just want to say how incredibly thankful I am for ALL of you here and the awesome knowledge and support!! I will keep you posted on the progress.

Go, fight, win! yeah
Tick bite 1982
Diagnosed 2015
Stage 4 Endometriosis, 7 surgeries
ABX 2015
Herbs 2016
"Occasionally weep deeply over the life you hoped would be. Grieve the losses. Then wash your face. Trust God. And embrace the life you have." -John Piper

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 11/27/2016 8:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Wow, TrialbyLyme! That's quite the journey, but as someone who suffer from jaw bone loss, I'm very happy to know that you are going to have this addressed.

And thank you from all of us for the wonderful words about this community! It takes all of us participating to make it as good as it is.

Please do keep us updated on your journey!!! And, of course, best of luck!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

JoanJet
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2015
Total Posts : 100
   Posted 11/27/2016 9:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Trialbylyme, I also have severe bone loss in my left jaw. I went to a LL Dentist (he works closely with my LLMD) and he discovered that just recently. No wonder I've had jaw pain for years. Not sure what to do about it - while I don't want this infection to continue, I also don't want to eventually have a caved in face die to a missing tooth. I think it would be my molar he would remove.

What did your dentist do with the fact that you now have 2 holes in your mouth? Are you leaving them gone (poor English, I know but having trouble getting this question out) or are you getting implants?

He also gave me ozone injections for the cavitations he detected in all the the 5 crowns I have (all since lyme). Hoping this will help with the occasionally very bad tooth pain. He also removed a mercury filling and replaced it with a non-toxic one, can't remember what.

This guy is in D.C at a wellness center; is that who you saw?

Hope you find some relief....
Joanie

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 11/27/2016 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
One thing I've found that seems to help with the inflammation (and hopefully with the infections) is oil pulling with coconut oil and tea tree oil nightly.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

multifacetedme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 1586
   Posted 11/27/2016 10:00 AM (GMT -6)   
What a journey! Listening and caring!
Lyme Forum Moderator: IGEN-X IGM ++ band 41, ind band 31 IGg, ind band 41. Clinical diagnosis of lyme by CMD and Naturopath. Used Herbal protocol: Buhner, Chinese herbs, Zhang herbs, support from this community. Symptoms 85% reduced. Targeted in this order: lyme, bart, babesia, cysts/bio-films, candida & fungus /playfreshional.wordpress.com/probable-lyme-and-co-infections/

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1246
   Posted 11/27/2016 11:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Let us know what happens-with a small amount of luck this will remove a foci infection and you will regain much of your health. You make ask the dds to take a picture of what he finds-I think a picture is worth a 1,000 words. My guess is it will be pretty clear
Either way zero doctors in the world think a festering infection in your jaw or anywhere is good for your health. Often removing an infection like this is the key to regaining your health-look at Yolonda-by her own words she got 70% better after having her breast implants removed.
Be sure to make an appointment for six months later-I hate to say sometimes it needs to be done more than once
Curious-did it show up in your blood work?

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 11/27/2016 11:36 AM (GMT -6)   
TrialbyLyme so happy you are on this course. It sure sounds like a good one!

Please keep us posted.

julymorning
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3827
   Posted 11/27/2016 12:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler, thank you again for the reminder about coconut oil pulling. I have lost a lot of jaw bone, cartilage in the joint and teeth because of this.

I haven't had any infection pain since being on the abx last year, but I can feel some familiar sensation in my front lower jaw that indicates something is about to flare up again. It's a weird sensation that makes me want to 'push' on my front teeth, which would cause me to lose one. Their roots aren't very deep there.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

TrialbyLyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 11/28/2016 12:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the support as always! So blessed by my "family" here!
@Traveler- how did you address or have you addressed your jaw bone loss? Was it caused by cavitation or root canals as well? Yes, and oil pulling has been a life saver for the pain!

@Joanjet- that is fantastic that you are able to see a LL DDS! You're half way there in your battle then. He just wants to remove one tooth? No, my first biological DDS was in MT and the new one I will see is in AZ.

about my missing teeth, they are in the back and I have a partial denture which works fine for me. Even before I knew I had Lyme the idea of implants while in theory sounds great, I knew wasn't for me. My body doesn't like foreign objects in it. Later, WHEN (;)) all is healed and I have great robust bone and Lyme in remission I may consider ceramic implants. I am afraid though that with this new surgery more perfectly good teeth will have to come out because the bone is just not there to hold them. Ozone injections are good maybe at keeping things at bay, but I don't think it will get rid of the cavitations. With my surgery 3 years ago I had ozone injections into the gum area as well as ozone IV's pre and post surgery and while it took some pain away it obviously didn't help in the long term.. But I am glad to hear you're seeing a DDS who knows what they're doing!! Good luck!

@ Magoo2- Well my friend, thanks so much for leading me to Dr. M! I am so grateful!!! ;) I think this will help a ton. Yeah and I am under no illusions that this will be a one and only thing. I will be staying for 3 or more months so he can see how it's healing and if other areas need to be done. I will ask for pics. Thanks for the tip! I love that kind of gory details anyway.
What kind of bloodwork are you referring to? I always have wonky blood work. High WBC, toxic Vit D 1,25 levels, and very high ferritin, also macrocyclic anemia, but with high levels of b-12 and folate. No doc has ever been able to explain these results. But do you mean bacterial load or infections?
Tick bite 1982
Diagnosed 2015
Stage 4 Endometriosis, 7 surgeries
ABX 2015
Herbs 2016
"Occasionally weep deeply over the life you hoped would be. Grieve the losses. Then wash your face. Trust God. And embrace the life you have." -John Piper

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1246
   Posted 11/28/2016 7:04 AM (GMT -6)   
I was asking about blood work just to let people know.
B-12 and folate-check out mthfr
With this infection did you have pain?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 12:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Those with tooth and/or jawbone loss - did you also have the gum shrinking back...ie periodontal issues first?

I had early on periodontal issues (early 20's)...and now have some bone loss...but no loose teeth...or loss.

I didn't address my periodontal issues until I was in my 30's and it took many years....but have been stable for a long time now...hopefully no more bone loss.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

JoanJet
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2015
Total Posts : 100
   Posted 11/28/2016 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, I had somewhat receding gums probably 15 years ago but my hygienist yelled at me so I started flossing religiously. I've been told for some years now that my gums are fine.

Do you know if jaw bone can regenerate if infection is removed??

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 1:02 PM (GMT -6)   
JoanJet -From what I've read...no

I found this though:



/nutritionreview.org/2014/07/drynaria-gentle-dental-herb/


Dentists can do bone grafts... - take bone from another area of your body (ouch!) or from a cadaver (ew)
...or a non-human source - such as cow (ew again)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Post Edited (Girlie) : 11/28/2016 12:13:25 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I have serious recession - and have lost some ligament support on some teeth.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

julymorning
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3827
   Posted 11/28/2016 1:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, no, I didn't. I had pretty good teeth, and NO cavities since 4th grade. I've lost teeth because the old 'silver' fillings fell out, matter of fact I don't have any teeth with fillings any more.

After I had some wisdom teeth pulled, my sinuses started messing up. Infections would migrate into my mouth after a while, I'd get a lump in my jaw, go to the dentist who would pull a perfectly live tooth. Lost 2 that way. Then bone would erode away from the area surrounded the hole the pulled tooth root had occupied, and just keep spreading All of this after I was tick infected.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
I haven't had a cavity in a very long time...my teeth have always been good...it's just my periodontal tissue.

Things have been stable for several years now...so hoping there isn't anymore bone loss.

I am considering having some tissue grafting done...but it is very expensive...and my dental plan only covers a small portion.
But, the periodontist will be taking tissue from the roof of my mouth...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

TrialbyLyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 11/28/2016 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
@ magoo2- Yeah I've been meaning to test for the mthfr. And I have excruciating pain from this infection. 24/7. On prescription pain meds round the clock which only make it bareable.

@ Girlie and JoanJet - I only ever had gum recession around the the two teeth that had root canals. Also there is a procedure called Plasma Rich Protein which my DDS will be using on me to regrow bone. He says it's fantastic at regrowing bone. Maybe this could be an option for you both?
Perhaps Magoo2 can address this since they have been treated by this dentist. At my previous surgery I had bovine or porcine bone grafting and it did nothing.

I found these 2 articles:

https://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-69/issue-10/664.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683340/

@julymorning- that sounds horrible! I'm so sorry!

TrialbyLyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 11/28/2016 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I forgot to mention for those of you that oil pull, I use an ozonated coconut oil.
I have been using it for a year mostly for pain with EO's added. But the minimal amount of gum recession that I did have started a few years ago is gone.

I just had a pre surgery check up last week and had zero recession. I can only attribute it to the ozone oil. Obviously I won't get rid of a raging infection but may be help the periodontal issues.

This is the one I buy:

/www.amazon.com/Ozone-Infused-Oil-Pulling-Solution-Coconut/dp/B00NFTKGQ6/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1480366423&sr=8-2&keywords=ozonated+coconut+oil

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
TrialbyLyme said...
@ magoo2- Yeah I've been meaning to test for the mthfr. And I have excruciating pain from this infection. 24/7. On prescription pain meds round the clock which only make it bareable.

@ Girlie and JoanJet - I only ever had gum recession around the the two teeth that had root canals. Also there is a procedure called Plasma Rich Protein which my DDS will be using on me to regrow bone. He says it's fantastic at regrowing bone. Maybe this could be an option for you both?
Perhaps Magoo2 can address this since they have been treated by this dentist. At my previous surgery I had bovine or porcine bone grafting and it did nothing.

I found these 2 articles:

https://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-69/issue-10/664.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683340/

@julymorning- that sounds horrible! I'm so sorry!



I hadn't heard of Plasma Rich Protein to regrow bone...I will look into that.

The links aren't working..
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 3:18 PM (GMT -6)   
So, when I looked up the Plasma Rich Protein - the first two articles said it can't be used alone, you still need bone...or a bone substitute.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
TrialbyLyme said...
I forgot to mention for those of you that oil pull, I use an ozonated coconut oil.
I have been using it for a year mostly for pain with EO's added. But the minimal amount of gum recession that I did have started a few years ago is gone.

I just had a pre surgery check up last week and had zero recession. I can only attribute it to the ozone oil. Obviously I won't get rid of a raging infection but may be help the periodontal issues.

This is the one I buy:

/www.amazon.com/Ozone-Infused-Oil-Pulling-Solution-Coconut/dp/B00NFTKGQ6/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1480366423&sr=8-2&keywords=ozonated+coconut+oil


Do you mean your gum recession just stopped...or did it reverse?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

TrialbyLyme
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 11/28/2016 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
@Girlie - Shoot you're right. Not sure why they're not working. And I'm in bed and too lazy to go check my desktop.Lol. Just Google "Plasma Rich Protein Dentistry" and they'll come up.

Well I guess recession reversed. The dentist was amazed. Said he had nothing to clean too. No plaque, tartar, etc. Went in for cleaning and X-rays and only ending up having X-rays and visual examination. Maybe worth a shot? Tastes gross though...like ozone.

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1246
   Posted 11/28/2016 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
PRP is made with your blood-seems to help the healing. I think it helped my healing. My opinion is there is no downside-I would use it. Bovine bone or artificial bone I would be extremely careful with-you may not be biocompatible with. At very least get a Clifford test to see how you body reacts.
If I'm a person on this board I would just use prp.
Dr M understands this-try not to place anything in your body that isn't you. For dental or anything else-everything not you will create an immune response

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32656
   Posted 11/28/2016 8:00 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
PRP is made with your blood-seems to help the healing. I think it helped my healing. My opinion is there is no downside-I would use it. Bovine bone or artificial bone I would be extremely careful with-you may not be biocompatible with. At very least get a Clifford test to see how you body reacts.
If I'm a person on this board I would just use prp.
Dr M understands this-try not to place anything in your body that isn't you. For dental or anything else-everything not you will create an immune response


But the PRP isn't enough to build the bone...from what I've read...or is there still some benefit?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1246
   Posted 11/28/2016 8:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I believe opinions very.
Placing anything in your body that isn't you is a danger-with lyme a silly danger. Anything not you creates an immune response-24-7-365
Get the infection out-add PRP and bone should grow
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