Band 41 Indeterminate, Band 58 positive = LYME?

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Huddie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 8:26 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm making a new thread.

Husband has band 41 Ind. on active lyme test IgG and 41 Ind and 58 positive on IgM. Do you think he has Lyme?

I was reading on the other post that 41 is the tail of the spirochete. What does THAT mean?

Also read that 58 is a European strain. Again, what does that mean?

My husband doesn't have classic lyme symptoms. His symptoms are very digestive (sorry for TMI but we thought he had chrohns or IBS, he has about ten bowel movements a day and it's always diarrhea). He had a colonoscopy and an endoscopy and tested for parasites and candida. All clear.

He is 45, very fit, runs every day and still very strong. He has been getting very fatigued. Here are other symptoms I notice: His scalp and ear are ALWAYS itchy (he's gone to Dr. for those too - steroid cream) so that's yeast, he seems grouchy a lot and easily irritated - as if his personality is changing. I think it's neuro.

I made him an appt. with the other LLMD in Dr. R's practice but canceling it. She is too whacky. I do think that because of the state of his gut that gut health may be in order before lots of abx.

So what would you do for gut and which herbs would you start him on? He's on a probiotic, did an elimination diet for a while and it did nothing. Thanks.

jennydancingfish
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   Posted 12/4/2016 8:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Huddie according to dr j band 41 means lyme. He is the doctor from the babesia episode on monsters inside me. He is the one with the excellent blog lymemd.blogspot.com
Currently with LLMD planning on doing modified Cowden Protocol and Buhner
Switched to this route after very bad herxing on rifampin
Diagnosed with Bartonella and Lyme. Twin has Bartonella and Mycoplasma and Lyme.
Twin improving on rifampin, zithromax, and tinidazole. Anger, rage, explosivity, emotional volatility, head and bone squeezing, sense of overheatedness all improved.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
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   Posted 12/4/2016 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Bands 18 & 41 (whether in IgM or IgG) are indicative of the tail of the bacteria, which can cross react with other Spirochetal bacteria such as Relapsing Fever, Pintas and Yaws, and Syphilis. If he doesn't test positive for one of those infections, then it's Lyme. Remember, these tests are all based on antibody response, and we need a healthy immune system to have a good antibody response. I didn't test fully CDC positive until after I had a full 12 months of abx treatment. The bacterial load had to be brought down for my immune system to be able to function well enough to produce the needed antibodies.

Lyme has been proven over and over again to lower immune function, and yet that is not taken into consideration when evaluating the test results, which is why a few states have managed to pass laws requiring doctors to tell patients that a negative test does NOT rule out Lyme disease.

For the gut, I would encourage you to see if you can get him to drink ginger tea 2 or 3 times a day - 3 would be much better, but I know he's working too, and that might not be possible.

Bone broths are really good, as is collagen. Soups made with bone broth are superb for helping leaky gut too.

Here are a couple of articles that I think you will find helpful:
scdlifestyle.com/2010/03/the-scd-diet-and-leaky-gut-syndrome/


/draxe.com/7-signs-symptoms-you-have-leaky-gut/
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
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   Posted 12/4/2016 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm not sure if I agree that 58 is always a european strain. It's a heat shock protein. I had this particular band and I test fully positive via c6 ELISA for Borrelia Burg.

41 is controversial. I researched the heck out of it. Most popular LLMD's do not consider it a specific Lyme band. I know it's the flagella and many bacteria have flagella. H. Pylori has flagella and half of the people in the world have it (according to Mayo Clinic). For most it does not cause an issue. We are just loaded with different bacteria.

Many Americans have digestive issues due to our diet unless he eats totally organic, gluten-free, etc. If he eats a standard American diet I would be exploring Leaky Gut and looking at ways to treat that (bone broth, probiotic,etc).

Itchy scalp - this is something a couple of us in our family struggle with. A weakened immune system (gut health) can definitely cause skin issues. Yeast/fungal can get out of control with a weakened immune system. I've had itchy scalp and so did my son. Ketoconizole shampoo cleared up scalp issues - which is used to treat yeast/fungal issues. I'm inclined to think it's something with our water or possible mold issue. Or, just a weak immune system.

I am split on all this. My 2 girls and husband test positive via the ELISpot test and my son was negative on IGeneX but has 18, 41 on IGM and 41, 58, 31 IND, 39 IND on IGG.

The thing is, they are not sick. So this makes me question the testing or if possibly most people now carry Lyme bacteria. Is it possible that Lyme itself is not making most people sick but the combination of coinfections, parasites, mold, metals, etc?

Personally, I would focus on gut repair and see where that gets you. Just my 2 cents.

Huddie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 9:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you guys,

He doesn't seem classic 'Lyme' sick. I tend to agree that we need to tend to his gut.

I have thought leaky gut or H-pylori.

I will get him to have ginger tea and bone broth.

Jenny, thanks for sharing Dr. J's opinion - I appreciate that.
Trav, is there a good probiotic you think would be good for him - wonder is is absorbing things now?
KO7, thanks for sharing what your family has - will get the shampoo. His diet is pretty good. Organic at home and tries to eat healthy at work.

Can you guys tell him how bad coffee and wine are? LOL - he doesn't listen to me.

multifacetedme
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   Posted 12/4/2016 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
The important thing in this context is that lyme is NOT diagnosed by a blood test. It is a clinical diagnosis based on symptoms and exposure.

What are your husbands symptoms? Can you list them?
What exposure has he had? Can you tell us what exposure he has had?

A good screening tool, in my view, is the Horowitz screening tool. If you score over 45, then he indicates this points towards a tick borne infection. I say a tick borne infection because lyme is a bacterial infection and more often than not, there is a co-infection with the bacterial infection.

If your husband's symptoms don't match lyme, or he scored below a 45 on the Horowitz screening tool, of course it is good to look at other things. I like Horowtiz's schematic that lists symptoms and possible causes. i also like "Dr. Google". Doing an exhaustive internet search about the symptoms, listing the possible causes, doing further research and favoring science backed articles (I like pub med)

Did you husband have exposure? Was he in a locale that is tick endemic? Do you have lyme and have you have unprotected sex? If so - this would constitute exposure. Although it is not definitive with regard to the science that lyme is sexually transmitted, the study I looked at, and the reading I've done by people in the field I respect, and discussion with qualified medical professionals - it is conceivable that it can be transmitted sexually. It hasn't been 100% ruled out that it is impossible, but rather, anecdotal and one study I read suggests it can.

Once you suspect lyme BLOOD WORK IS USED TO HELP WITH THE CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS.

I've researched band 41 quite a bit, and it was the only positive I had, with another band, specific to lyme reading as "ind" - which means, there was a reaction, something showed up, but it wasn't strong enough to be a positive. Band 41 is usually the first to show up in a lyme infection. Band 41, although not specific to lyme, is a great diagnostic tool. In China, what they do, is rule out all the other bacteria associated with this band. If all other bacteria are ruled out, and lyme is left, then the diagnosis is lyme. If your husband has Band 41 active, research all possible causes, ask yourself, is this plausible?

Here is the rationale I used when I was considering band 41 for my own case.

A. yes - I had symptoms
B. yes - I had exposure - I danced in grassy fields when ticks are the size of poppy seeds in a town 35 miles away from "lyme" CT. My spouse had a tick bite with a bulls eye rash, this is lyme, we had unprotected sex.

Here is my post from when I was considering band 41

Found this thread - www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2919950

I think I will systematically go through all of the spirochetes that band 41 ++ and look at symptoms.


"The spirochetes are divided into three families (Brachyspiraceae, Leptospiraceae, and Spirochaetaceae), all placed within a single order (Spirochaetales). Disease-causing members of this phylum include the following:
http://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1550852
Leptospira species, which causes leptospirosis - not a good match
Borrelia burgdorferi, which causes Lyme disease -symptoms match
Borrelia recurrentis, which causes relapsing fever - not a good match
Treponema pallidum, which causes syphilis - hmm - some things, but others not
Treponema pertenue, which causes yaws" - nope

so - given the symptoms of the other spirochetes aren't good matches.. it makes sense, its lyme. Especially the indeterminate band 31, because this says something was there, and this band is specific to borrelia burgdorferi

These links breaks down the bands and explain the western blot.
www.mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-disease-support-forums/general-support/61532-breakdown-of-igenix-test-bands

/sites.google.com/site/newjerseylyme/lab-tests/tests-explained

www.personalconsult.com/posts/guide-to-understanding-western-blots.html

latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11802

/www.lymedisease.org/lyme-basics/lyme-disease/diagnosis/

/www.lymedisease.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Image13-link-pdf-brenner.pdf

And - my experience with spouse's with lyme. Put your own oxygen mask on first, and the oxygen mask of your kid's. Lyme is a learning journey that is more than about recovering from illness. It, in my view, requires some deeper shifts. Maybe your DH isn't ready for that. That is his journey. You can drop seeds, offer information, but ultimately he needs to take control of his own health, not you for him. Just my two cents.

P.s. the most conservative organization - CDC - on diagnosing lyme.
anapsid.org/lyme/panel/CDC%20Surveillance%20Case%20Definition.pdf

I might be dead if I had followed their line of reasoning with regard to whether I have/had a tick borne infection or not. I am glad I had more common sense! At the bottom of this document it states in big bold lettering.
"The following wording appears on all Borrelia and other tickborne disease test results produced by the Sonoma County Public Health Laboratory:
Diagnosis should not be based on laboratory tests alone. Results should be interpreted in conjunction with clinical symptoms and patient history."

Post Edited (multifacetedme) : 12/4/2016 9:02:00 AM (GMT-7)


Traveler
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   Posted 12/4/2016 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Caffeine is really only bad (when consumed in moderation) when there are adrenal issues. If the adrenal issues are kind of minor, he can switch to decaf and not have issues, most likely.

Wine - when consumed in moderation - is also okay to have, unless he has yeast/fungal issues, then it feeds them because of the sugars in the fruit (grapes) is quite high. If he has Lyme and co, alcohol may increase symptoms though.

After that, you're kind of on your own - LOL! Sorry!!! Mine doesn't want to listen to me much either! LOL!

The reason I say that Band 31 should be considered as an indicator of Lyme is because of this article, that was written before the Dearborn committee really messed things up for us:

"Whereas the 60 kDa, 41 kDa, and 34 kDa constituents reveal a marked cross-antigenicity with other spirochetes and even more distantly related bacteria, antibodies against the 94 kDa, 31 kDa and 21 kDa proteins are largely species-specific."
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8223404


And as for Band 58:

There are several articles that you have to take information from to see that it's here in the US and that it's hard to diagnose:
"Conclusions. Patients with B. garinii isolated from their CSF have a distinct clinical presentation, compared with patients with B. afzelii. B. garinii causes what, in Europe, is appreciated as typical early Lyme neuroborreliosis (Bannwarth syndrome), whereas the clinical features associated with B. afzelii are much less specific and more difficult to diagnose. "
cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/43/6/704.full

"Genetic similarity and diversity suggest that B. afzelii and B. garinii are close relatives and were perhaps recently derived from B. burgdorferi. "
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC154584/


While there is very little scientific documentation of European strains of Borrelia being in the US, take a look at the Lyme forums - US patients are having it identified in their blood, even if they have never traveled to the EU.

I get my information from this site: www.reocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/western-blot.txt as it's the most comprehensive site I can find based on actual NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology Information) articles. And, it has NCBI article numbers listed so that you can look them up for yourself as well.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Post Edited (Traveler) : 12/4/2016 9:14:39 AM (GMT-7)


Huddie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 10:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Multiface,

Wow! Thank you so much. This is a very detailed, informative and helpful post. A giant heartfelt thank to you.

My husband has had a weekend home since birth in a very lyme endemic area. We now have a weekend home in that same area. He has had ticks on him in the past. He practically lives in the grass and woods:caring for the lawn, archery, shooting, hunting, dirt biking on our trails. In other words, lots and lots of exposure.

I like what you said about the healing journey. I agree. I have been under treating/caring for myself since my son's diagnosis and now I don't have the strength to think/care for three lyme patients. I will of course, make tea, offer bone broth and supplements but you are correct -they both need to want it. I feel like I expend so much energy convincing my family to make better food choices.

Thanks again. I greatly appreciate your advice.

Huddie
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Date Joined Nov 2014
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   Posted 12/4/2016 10:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Trav,

Thank you so much. I will read all of these links when I have a moment. I GREATLY appreciate all of this, very helpful, information. He 100% has yeast/fungal issues, I can tell by various symptoms. Also think he has food allergies and because of his increased fatigue, memory, mood and exposure - I'm certain he has lyme.

Thanks!

dacarte3
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Date Joined Feb 2016
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   Posted 12/4/2016 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
The combination of his test results AND symptoms is how the diagnoses should be made for your husband.

I had crohns like/level digestive issues in the first few months of lyme. The whole gambit of digestive issues without getting too descriptive.

So when you couple his symptoms: fatigue, mood swings, bad digestive issues (all things I've experienced and many other lymies as well), couple that with the fact you and your children are indeed positive for borrelia and co, then you have to go with the odds and probability.

High probability your husband has borrelia and co infection as well.
Lyme: Igenex IFA positive and Igenex Westernblot band 31 and 41
Ehrlichia: Positive (Igenex)
Mycoplasma: Positive (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Present

Huddie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Dacarte,

Thank you! And thanks for sharing that your symptoms are similar. Hearing the symptoms/healing of others really does help.

We have also spent lots of time in Europe over the years so easy for 58 to pop up - I had 58 as well (but I have over six bands).

Does more bands = more sick? My husband seems the healthiest but I think he has learned coping mechanisms.

Thanks. May I ask what you do and/or what helped your digestive issues?

Girlie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:04 AM (GMT -6)   
More bands doesn't mean more sick.

More bands present means the person's immune system is functioning well enough to produce the antibodies.


Lyme suppresses our immune system...so often we don't test positive - due to our body's inability to mount a response and produce the antibodies.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

Traveler
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Agreeing with Girlie - I was extremely sick and I had at best only band 41 come up positive until I had been in treatment for a full year - then I was fully CDC positive on the WB. It's all about how compromised the immune function is as to whether or not the current testing will be able to pick it up.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

dacarte3
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Huddie said...

My husband has had a weekend home since birth in a very lyme endemic area. We now have a weekend home in that same area. He has had ticks on him in the past. He practically lives in the grass and woods:caring for the lawn, archery, shooting, hunting, dirt biking on our trails. In other words, lots and lots of exposure.



All very good pieces of data.

However I think blinders can be put on sometimes when people try to always find an "outdoorsy" connection.

Vectors that carry the borrelia and co bacteria are found in urban and suburban areas as well. From birds, mice/rodents and our very own pets that can carry ticks. Even mosquitoes and spiders have been found to carry the bacteria(s). And then of course the growing evidence of sexual transmission.

So narrowing it down to just "outdoor/wilderness" exposure is almost irrelevant

My own personal opinion, which is backed by NO science, I repeat NO science (so I'm not trying to make an absolutely claim here) is it's transmissible from human to human contact. Similar to the herpes viruses 1, 6, 8, cold sores, chicken pox, and EBV respectively (I think I got those numbers correct). So saliva transfer. Kissing, sharing cups and utensils, anywhere saliva could be and touched (so even on surfaces and door knobs).

The reason why I have this hunch, which once again is backed by no science, is because there's way to many situational anecdotal evidence that doesn't match the odds and probability.

Countless anecdotal and testimonial evidence of entire families (humans in close quarters like a household) all getting sick with lyme together, with no exposure to outdoorsy things. One of those anecdotal evidence is my own, where me, my sister, and nephew all got sick with lyme and co at the same time by just being in the same house with each other for a week. My sister and nephew live in Rhode Island an absolutely hotbed of lyme. We all got sick after getting together in Virginia (not Rhode Island), in an urban area, in a home. And a year prior my mother got sick with lyme after being visited by my sister and nephew as well.

The probability of my story, even your story Huddie, of a household full of lymies now, and countless others just doesn't match the odds and probability it would take, for in all of these situations a vector with lyme to just float and bounce around and bite everyone, every time. It's not logical nor probable.

Now do I believe lyme still originates from a vector bite, of course, but is it possibly much more contagious than ever thought? I think so.
Lyme: Igenex IFA positive and Igenex Westernblot band 31 and 41
Ehrlichia: Positive (Igenex)
Mycoplasma: Positive (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Present

PeteZa
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Huddie, make soups. And use no water, just use bone broth. I made turkey soup and used 2 boxes of turkey bone broth. Tons of vegetables and if you have too much, you just freeze it.

Today I am making bison chili and the liquid will be bone broth.

I have even gone so far as to cook my potatoes in bone broth for mashing. When it calls for water, I reach for the bone broth.

And, we have declared a "tea time" in our retired home. I either make a cup of bone broth and we just sip it or I make Golden Milk. Our latest healthy kicks.
My healing story --
[url]http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3698803[url/]

Girlie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:23 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm not sure there isn't any science about transmitting from person to person.

We do know that the Bb is found in seminal and vaginal fluids.

It's very likely IMO that it can be transmitted sexually.


I'm on the fence about whether it's passed on through saliva.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

dacarte3
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   Posted 12/4/2016 11:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
I'm not sure there isn't any science about transmitting from person to person.

We do know that the Bb is found in seminal and vaginal fluids.

It's very likely IMO that it can be transmitted sexually.


I'm on the fence about whether it's passed on through saliva.


Saliva I guess was more of example of possible transmission.

But my overall point is, there just has to be a more "casual" way of transfer outside of the direct vector bite or from sex. Something just doesn't add up.

PeteZa
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   Posted 12/4/2016 12:02 PM (GMT -6)   
These are my thoughts on transmission and I am not a doctor.

I think lyme travels throughout the body via any highway it can find. Be it blood, lymph, tears, urine, vaginal fluids, seminal fluids and I think even saliva.

I just can't say in my heart that it travels all other avenues, but not saliva. What would keep it from the saliva???

If it can pass the blood brain barrier, I would think that all parts are accessible for lyme travel.

The cdc certainly believes that lyme cannot be transmitted from person to person at all. Lyme Disease.org is totally convinced that lyme can be transmitted sexually. I think it is only time and they will do studies of married couples abstaining from sex and just kissing and it will be proven. But, you got to find those married couples. LOL
My healing story --
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3698803

Girlie
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   Posted 12/4/2016 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I think even though it's in saliva...it may still not be transmitted that way.

HIV isn't known to be transmitted via saliva... (or is it?)

I know it's a virus vs bacteria...but just throwing it out there.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to biaxin.

k07
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   Posted 12/4/2016 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
We also have to consider that even if it is passed these ways, it is entirely possible that your immune system can knock it out. AND, the western blot would still show bands if you had any type of exposure to BB. That doesn't necessarily mean it is active or causing your symptoms. Right?

Also, it seems that maybe if you are infected this way that the symptoms are not the same or as bad as someone who was infected via vector. Possibly coinfections coming into play. I don't think coinfections (or maybe I'm wrong here) can be passed sexually.

Has there ever been anyone on here who has BB only (no coinfections)?

dacarte3
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   Posted 12/4/2016 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
k07 said...

Has there ever been anyone on here who has BB only (no coinfections)?


Very good question. Is it even possible?
Lyme: Igenex IFA positive and Igenex Westernblot band 31 and 41
Ehrlichia: Positive (Igenex)
Mycoplasma: Positive (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Present

Lymepilot
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   Posted 12/4/2016 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Of course it's possible to be infected with Lyme only.

k07
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   Posted 12/4/2016 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Lymepilot said...
Of course it's possible to be infected with Lyme only.


I read somewhere, and who knows if it is true, but in a study 95% of Lyme patients had coinfections. So....

Just seems like most on here struggle with the coinfections.

jennydancingfish
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   Posted 12/4/2016 6:36 PM (GMT -6)   
I dont know guys hiv and syphilis cant be transmitted through saliva. Also in my fam my brother whose the middle child and my dad have zero lyme symptoms and zero health problems. They are healthy as ox whereas i think my sisters and mom have lyme.
And look at the hadids gigi is perfectly healthy. Its more likely that family diet contributing gut health and genetic mutations shares by family members cause multiple family members to get infected by ticks. Plus according to buhner it can be passed by fleas sandflies etc. I think if it was possible to transmit it through saliva everyone wohld have it like the flu!
Currently with LLMD planning on doing modified Cowden Protocol and Buhner
Switched to this route after very bad herxing on rifampin
Diagnosed with Bartonella and Lyme. Twin has Bartonella and Mycoplasma and Lyme.
Twin improving on rifampin, zithromax, and tinidazole. Anger, rage, explosivity, emotional volatility, head and bone squeezing, sense of overheatedness all improved.

dacarte3
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Total Posts : 1897
   Posted 12/4/2016 6:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting point Jenny. 70% of people have herpes 1, 90% EBV and chicken pox, everyone has gotten a cold or flu, all transferable through saliva.

The lyme numbers would be in these ball parks of it was the case. However "contagious" is a spectrum, not a yes or no. I just think there's a "contagious" element to some level, not yet well understood.
Lyme: Igenex IFA positive and Igenex Westernblot band 31 and 41
Ehrlichia: Positive (Igenex)
Mycoplasma: Positive (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Present
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