stop taking probiotics they are neurotoxic.

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abhi
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Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 203
   Posted 12/13/2016 6:15 AM (GMT -7)   
as my own experience my biggest enemy is my probiotics they only make sympotams worse insted of how many antibiotics i take.no one know this dark side of probiotics .only one or two website mention this and this is absoutly true that probiotics are neurotoxic.i find this clue after 6 month of struggle with probiotics.they not only interfier in recovery process but make sympotam 1000 times worsen.my major sympotams start after pills of probiotics
1 whole body vibration
2 strange feeling in throat
3 ataxia worsen(dizziness)
4 musulse twiching
5 heart paltipation
6 brain fog worsen
7 numbness in hand
8 biggest one extreme tightness in lung for 6 months
SO IF YOU THINK YOUR SYMPOTAMS NOT IMPROVING OVER COURSE OF ANTIBIOTIC THEN PLEASE FOLLOW MY ADVICE NOT TOUCH PROBIOTICS FOR 20 DAYS AND REMAIN ONLY ON ANTIBIOTICS.THIS IS MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. PLEASE SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE..COMMENT PLEASE[url]

http://www.mommypotamus.com/popular-probiotic-strain-may-induce-neurotoxicity/

Post Edited (abhi) : 12/13/2016 1:02:21 PM (GMT-7)


reminder
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Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 12/13/2016 6:43 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the info......however,probiotics have helped my gut heal,still a work in progress but I can see and feel them working.

Try fermented foods.....instead of just the pills.


r

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 12/13/2016 6:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Abhi - this just is not true. As has been said many, many times on this forum, when taking probiotics when the person has yeast issues, there WILL BE die off from the yeast. This will increase your symptoms, just like herxing with Lyme.

This is NOT the probiotics doing damage, but rather just like in Lyme disease, it's the bad bacteria dying off and producing and/or increasing your symptoms. It's all very carefully documented science, not just my experience - even though I've been using probiotics and treating Lyme and company for over 9 years now. I was diagnosed with Lyme and company in 2007 and had used probiotics off and on previously for much, much longer than that.

The other thing is, the symptoms you list - each and every one of them is what should be expected with a die off like I have explained.

I'm very, very sorry that you feel so bad, but the only way out is to detox - not to stop taking probiotics. You will also need to specifically treat the yeast (as well as the other infections) you have, or you will only continue to get more ill.

I'm sure that there will be more comments on this thread for you to read, and please do more in-depth researching and you will see that you are experiencing healing, even if it does get worse first. Again, this is when and why we say for people to detox so much - it helps control the symptoms of the die off of bacteria.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1167
   Posted 12/13/2016 8:52 AM (GMT -7)   
probiotics neurotoxic.... hmmm ... But yogurt is natural probiotic. it means that when i am drinking my kefir/yogurt (and i used to drink LOADS of it) i was going in neurologic/anaphylactic shock. Certainly did not feel that way :)

in asian countries, probiotic amounts in yogurt are regulated
/books.google.com/books?id=tFjsAuo5WocC&q=%22Product%20Standard%20GB19302-2010%22&pg=PA712#v=onepage&q=%22Product%20Standard%20GB19302-2010%22&f=false

in China, for example, the requirement for the number of lactobacillus bacteria is at least one million CFU per gram per milliliter. CFU means Colony Forming Units (bacteria).

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogurt

Imagine how many bacteria are in 4 pounds of yogurt...

However, probiotic bacteria will colonize your intestines and will drive yeast to die. Yeast does generate toxins when dying, and some are neurotoxins, hence you can have "herxes" from Candida, if you really have a bad infection.

Mustard Seed
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Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1164
   Posted 12/13/2016 8:57 AM (GMT -7)   
My goodness, this thread should almost be locked or something.

Telling people on a Lyme board, many of whom are on heavy antibiotics, to stop taking probiotics is flat out dangerous!

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 4017
   Posted 12/13/2016 8:59 AM (GMT -7)   
As others said..........False.

I and others cant live without probiotics. I've used them in a leaky gut protocol, while on ABX and combating Candida. I just started them again after food poisoning to get my gut back on tract.

**Some dont work for some people, you need to try different ones till you find one that helps.**

The yeast type probiotic did not go well with me, but works for some people.

You can actually die from longterm high dose abx complications without adding probiotics and keeping candida in control. This is why regular drs dont like long term abx use - it scares them. they dont get the monitoring part for some reason.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/13/2016 11:33:42 AM (GMT-7)


Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Mustard Seed, we won't lock it, because it's obvious that Abhi is misinformed and we want to help educate them, not "put them off".
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

tickcheckguy
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm sorry you had this experience but it's patently untrue. What might actually be happening is your biome imbalance is so high you actually need more antibiotics!
--
Bit growing up. Lyme and Co Infections came after Dengue Fever infection in February of '13. Undertreated with mono therapy, made major recovery on Buhner herbs (80%), but went backwards after two concussions. All symptoms are basically neurological now. Exploring mold, metals, and every co infection I can dig for. Believe we all can get better!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:19 AM (GMT -7)   
More abx will only create even more of an issue if there is yeast, which is what the OP's symptoms suggest after the use of probiotics.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

reminder
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:25 AM (GMT -7)   
abhi....try fermented foods...small servings...get checked for Candida.

r
Started with muscle waste (weight loss)and digestive issues,malaise,brain fog,fatigue.Kidney functions started to decrease.A Lyme Dr diagnosed me October 2015,Lyme,Mycoplasma,Candida,possible Bart...could be more,time will tell.Meds..pulsed Azithro..Rifampin w Flucozanole every few days.Fatigue,brain fog,anxiety,blurred vision always approaches mid afternoon,sometimes fades,sometimes until bed.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9226
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:25 AM (GMT -7)   
For most people, taking a quality probiotic supplement doesn’t have any side effects other than higher energy and better digestive health. But for some—particularly those whose gut bacteria has been out of balance for years—there can be a “transition period” when existing problems can be aggravated.

This aspect of taking probiotics isn't often discussed, which is unfortunate. Many people look at their worsening symptoms and conclude that not only is the supplement not working as expected, but it's actually making their situation worse. Consequently, they stop taking the product before it has a chance to help them.

If you're experiencing probiotic side effects, please understand that while the symptoms may be inconvenient (and, I'll admit, occasionally embarrassing), they also are temporary.

If you’re taking antibiotics or other drugs that kill good gut bacteria, the transition could take a long time or may never happen. Common medications such as painkillers, analgesics, steroids, anti-inflammatories, sleeping pills, birth control pills, antacids, vaccines, and many others either kill or interfere with the growth of beneficial flora.

Probiotics are helpful and it also helps to regularly consume fermented foods such as real live yogurt and homemade sauerkraut, and other cultured foods such as sourdough, kefir, kombucha, and buttermilk.

Discontinuing the probiotic may get rid of your transition symptoms, but it won’t give the good bacteria a chance to take over. And worse, you won’t experience the benefits associated with a healthy colon.

*
My healing story --
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3698803

reminder
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Lol....listen to PeteZa..great post)


r
Started with muscle waste (weight loss)and digestive issues,malaise,brain fog,fatigue.Kidney functions started to decrease.A Lyme Dr diagnosed me October 2015,Lyme,Mycoplasma,Candida,possible Bart...could be more,time will tell.Meds..pulsed Azithro..Rifampin w Flucozanole every few days.Fatigue,brain fog,anxiety,blurred vision always approaches mid afternoon,sometimes fades,sometimes until bed.

abhi
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 203
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:28 AM (GMT -7)   
actully in my case probiotic(lactobaccilus) is neurotoxic that i am sure.and i reach this conclusion after six month of heavily suffering.actuly probiotic neurotoxicity sympotams not different from lyme sympotams.so this is my openion for long term suffering patient.this is happen to me that s why i give suggestion. try it or throw away its your choice.

https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=probiotics%20neurotoxicity

reminder
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 12/13/2016 9:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Candida and milk do not go together.....try "dairy free" probiotics?....I ain't no Dr,however,have become a great lab experiment....


r
Started with muscle waste (weight loss)and digestive issues,malaise,brain fog,fatigue.Kidney functions started to decrease.A Lyme Dr diagnosed me October 2015,Lyme,Mycoplasma,Candida,possible Bart...could be more,time will tell.Meds..pulsed Azithro..Rifampin w Flucozanole every few days.Fatigue,brain fog,anxiety,blurred vision always approaches mid afternoon,sometimes fades,sometimes until bed.

multifacetedme
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 1574
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Nice discourse and awareness raising. Peaked my interest. I did a bit of research which explains how the body responds to pro-biotics. www.mommypotamus.com/popular-probiotic-strain-may-induce-neurotoxicity/ fixyourgut.com/why-supplementing-with-probiotics-may-make-you-ill-part-4-d-lactate/ I think they will take a few reads to be able to explain in simple terms.

One article implies that the anti-biotics may contribute to the bigger picture as well.

Echoing Petza and reminder - foods good for gut health: fermented foods, Kefir.

One thing for SURE - anti-biotics are wicked when it comes to wrecking havoc on one's gut flora.
I like this person's explanation
"Though antibiotics may be necessary in certain situations, it’s important to weigh the benefits of using them with the potential risks that may come from the permanent alteration of the gut flora. If antibiotics must be used (and there are certainly situations where this is the case), special care should be taken to not only restore their gut flora using probiotic foods and supplements, but to eat a diet that supports healthy gut microbiota with plenty of fermentable fibers from starch and the removal of food toxins."
/chriskresser.com/the-high-price-of-antibiotic-use-can-our-guts-ever-fully-recover/

Abhi - thanks for sharing your understanding of what is going on with your body - sending you good thoughts. Sending your gut a happy thought and hope your need for anti-biotics ends soon.

Post Edited (multifacetedme) : 12/13/2016 10:15:49 AM (GMT-7)


Kirky98
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 167
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Well if you stop taking probiotics you will certainly be adding one more symptom to your list, a damaged gut!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I just went through the first two pages of links that you posted, and I didn't see one single link that was from a source I would consider reliable. Alternative/natural medicine is often misunderstood and villainized because it's not understood - not because it doesn't work or have negative consequences. Just look at all the hulla balloo about using herbs for treating these infections - and yet many have healed with them when they are used properly.

Many also make the mistake of not believing herbs and natural remedies to be very strong, and then end up 'in trouble' and blaming the herbs/natural things for the increased issues, when in reality it's "user error" that is to blame. More is not always better.

If you were only using one single strain of probiotics, then right there is the issue. We have a LOT of bacteria in our gut - 100 TRILLION - so by only using one strain to help combat issues will definitely make things worse. We need as many strains of good bacteria as we can get in our probiotics. I like kefir for this reason particularly - homemade versions can have as many as 32 different strains of healthy bacteria and yeasts to help bring the intestinal flora back to health.

I'm NOT saying this to convert you to my way of thinking, but in an attempt to help you find the right way to get through this. I've been in treatment for these infections for the last 9 years, so I've learned a few things along the way.

Using abx or herbal abx without using probiotics (many strains!) will certainly lead to serious yeast and fungal issues. Links from the first two pages of a search I just did to support the use of probiotics while using abx - reliable sources linked only:
https://chriskresser.com/what-to-do-if-you-need-to-take-antibiotics/


/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105609/


www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/supplements-remedies/probiotics/


www.livestrong.com/article/507055-when-does-one-take-probiotics-when-taking-an-antibiotic/


/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095085/


www.health.harvard.edu/blog/probiotics-may-help-prevent-diarrhea-due-to-antibiotic-use-201205094664
"Eating yogurt or taking a so-called probiotic when you have to take antibiotics may help prevent the diarrhea that often accompanies antibiotic treatment.

That’s the conclusion of a study just published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. A team of California-based researchers combined the results of 63 randomized trials pitting probiotics versus placebo among almost 12,000 men and women taking antibiotics. Those who took antibiotics plus probiotics were 42% less likely to develop diarrhea as those who got the placebo."
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Fronton
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Date Joined Sep 2014
Total Posts : 405
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
Apparently no one else's troll radar went off!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:20 AM (GMT -7)   
No, Abhi is a regular member here. They have 113 posts and most have been questions about trying to get help with Lyme treatment.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9226
   Posted 12/13/2016 10:29 AM (GMT -7)   
abhi, your link did not work for me.

I did look up probiotics and neurotoxicity and you definitely can find links to pages on the internet. But, you can find links to just about everything.

I do believed that you honestly have taken probiotics and have had worsening symptoms.

So, maybe the option is to stop the antibiotics because you cannot take the probiotics. You may be one of those that can't take abx.

Maybe it would be better for you to take herbs for your lyme and then eat your way to a healthy gut flora?

I am looking for answers for you. I do not think that yours is the "norm." I think most people need probiotics along with abx.

But, we all know that lyme is freaky and can cause so many weird and unusual symptoms and very possibly you just can't handle probiotics.

I would not want to ruin my gut health by staying on abx without probiotics. But that is me.

We all make choices in this lyme journey and I wish you the best on deciding. It is just highly recommended that probiotics be taken with antibiotics. The consequences of not taking a probiotic and damaging your gut is horrible can result in a life long problem that can never be cured.

*
My healing story --
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3698803

julymorning
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3808
   Posted 12/13/2016 11:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Traveler and everyone is right. Those symptoms you list I experienced long before ever starting on probiotics.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

reminder
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2015
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 12/13/2016 11:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Dr Klinghart (spelling?)....I heard he feeds his Patients,Saurkraut (spelling again)....fermented,once I got used to it....mmm...mmm...good,now It's weird,craving it as my gut feels a bit better?

In fact,if I could go back a couple years ago,I would have been eating fermented foods every day just to start my Lyme treatment.....didn't know at the time.

r
Started with muscle waste (weight loss)and digestive issues,malaise,brain fog,fatigue.Kidney functions started to decrease.A Lyme Dr diagnosed me October 2015,Lyme,Mycoplasma,Candida,possible Bart...could be more,time will tell.Meds..pulsed Azithro..Rifampin w Flucozanole every few days.Fatigue,brain fog,anxiety,blurred vision always approaches mid afternoon,sometimes fades,sometimes until bed.

needhelp4
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 648
   Posted 12/13/2016 12:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Abhi, I hope you don't do what happened to me years ago...12 yrs. ago when I started taking natural antibiotics for Lyme, I was absolutely clueless about probiotics! No one mentioned them and didn't know any better, so never took them... A little over 2 and a half years ago, I go to get a live blood cell analysis done and while the practitioner is looking at it under the microscope he is stunned and says to me, "wow, you must be or have taken some heavy duty antibiotics, eh?" Then he tells me that it is NO WONDER that I was experiencing Major stomach pains because I had NO gut flora at all! From that day forward, I started taking probiotics- the good kind - to build up gut flora and I am okay now...better than I have been in a LONG while regarding my gut.....so it has taken me this long to build up much needed flora...please do not do what I did unknowingly....you will regret it...just my 2 cents..oh, I also DETOX everyday- 30 minutes infrared ozone sauna...have not felt this good in years...hope I don't jinx it by saying this now......

Randy Eichner
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 12/13/2016 12:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Mono-Biotics will cause these symptoms. I experienced them when I took align. These are single strain dead microbes in a pill. Live multi strains are needed. Through kefir and fermented foods.
Not to mention there is more strategy needed to fixing the gut other than just probiotics.
Igenix+ bands 23-25,31,41,58,66
Muscle Test Dx for:
Babs,Bart,Chlamydia,Myco & RMSF
Sprinkled with Heavy Metal toxicity.

mcspike
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 165
   Posted 12/13/2016 1:55 PM (GMT -7)   
My lyme literate Dr is an intergrative Homeopathic ND who used chinese herbal protocol for FIRST 9 months of treatment. There wasnt any need for probiotics as the herbs are antifungal.

Then I began doxycycline, and now amoxicillin and I NEED probiotics to prevent candida. Since I dont already have yeast overgrowth, I dont have any dieoff, thus no herxing!!!
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