Today I found the cure for my back pain.

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ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Today I found the cure for my back pain. I suspected it was caused by infectious disease because of its inconsistencies. It isnt always painful until later in the day.

I will share this with the chronic pain forum, but I am not that active there because they are nothing like you all. You all are a smart bunch.

I know this is a Lyme forum but I love you guys and had to share the good news.

This could be what has been affecting my lungs in the last 2 months also.

I am hoping my local GP will go for this. He does not like to prescribe long courses of antibiotics. If he doesn't then I must find a doctor who will.

I sent him the following email below (translated into Spanish which should read as follows...)

Spondylodiscitis due to Propionibacterium acnes

This is a reference to a medical study on back pain that was cured with antibiotics. I have a 28 year of history of chronic back pain.

Dr. Q, you treated my eye with this same antibiotic that is in the study where patients were cured of back pain.

I reviewed my health diary and the day after taking CLAVULIN (Amoxicillin 875 mg / 125 mg clauvenic acid or Augmentin in the US)

I checked my notes for this day. 24 hours after starting this medication I did not have back pain all day and night.

I am sure that I am infected with,

Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes) in my spine.

This will cure my chronic 28-year-old back pain if I take it 3 times a day for 90 days.

I know it sounds like a lot, but it's in medical journals.

The last recommendation has recently been changed to 100 days of treatment.

I want you to supervise this treatment.

Please tell me you will help me.

The study in English is here. You will see many supporting studies:

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3631045/

I think you can access this study in Spanish if you look up the publication number. I'm sure you'll know where to find it:

Http://libguides.fiu.edu/PubMed/pubmedspanish

julymorning
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3808
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:03 PM (GMT -7)   
Hm. Interesting. I haven't read the link yet, but when I see a lull on the forum, I'm going to read about everything I find.

Back pain is a huge issue for me. I have a list of damages and disease to account for it, but no real reason up until now to be the initial cause, other than Lyme and co.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

julymorning
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3808
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Ok. Help me out here, because once again I got half way through (I think), and started to fall asleep.

Is it necessary to have the acne on the back at ANY time in one's life to have it on the spine? Which I am assuming the spine itself? Because I never have, and neither has someone else that I had in mind.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27969
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Chickenarise - Are you saying you don't have Lyme disease ... or you have this as well as Lyme?

I'm not home but will look at the link later.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
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   Posted 1/9/2017 6:14 PM (GMT -7)   
>>This will cure my chronic 28-year-old back pain if I take it 3 times a day for 90 days. I know it sounds like a lot, but it's in medical journals.

if you think that's a lot you haven't been reading about our abx protocols here very much :o)

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Julymorning. It has nothing to do with acne. It is the species name which happens to look like acne. It must be my writing style that puts you to sleep smile

Girlie. No, sadly I have strong clinical presentations for Borellia and Bart. I have had chronic back pain for 28 years.

I just realized Lyme late last year and for the longest time thought it was strictly yeast infection from mold sickness.

When the tingling didnt resolve with 6 months of Fluconazole. I began to suspect Lyme and showed up here. Then I got hit with other symptoms that seem to be specific to Borellia and Bart.

Rikky1 - Good one.

blueberrymuffin
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Date Joined Mar 2016
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   Posted 1/9/2017 6:28 PM (GMT -7)   
And do you think that some other antibiotics that are used for Lyme and co-infections can address this P.acnes bacteria as well?
Or it is just Clavulin?
Lyme Disease Moderator

julymorning
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3808
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:32 PM (GMT -7)   
ChickenArise said...
Julymorning. It has nothing to do with acne. It is the species name which happens to look like acne. It must be my writing style that puts you to sleep smile

Girlie. No, sadly I have strong clinical presentations for Borellia and Bart. I have had chronic back pain for 28 years.

I just realized Lyme late last year and for the longest time thought it was strictly yeast infection from mold sickness.

When the tingling didnt resolve with 6 months of Fluconazole. I began to suspect Lyme and showed up here. Then I got hit with other symptoms that seem to be specific to Borellia and Bart.

Rikky1 - Good one.


Did you read your own link? Oh wait, nevermind, I looked it up myself. Let me see if I can find the article I read on it. It even had photos. I'm talking about reading the link tiring me, lol. You never put me to sleep.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:40 PM (GMT -7)   
blueberrymuffin said...
And do you think that some other antibiotics that are used for Lyme and co-infections can address this P.acnes bacteria as well?
Or it is just Clavulin?


What an excellent question!

There are other studies which I have also read which shows cure using:

cefazolin
clindamycin
gentamicin
penicillin
vancomycin

one of them appears here
cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/3/643.full.pdf

The first study I linked to says the following including that it took a while to manifest but based on how I have never had a day without pain until 24hours after I took the Augmentin (US trade name for CLAVULIN) I have a gut feeling that my back affliction is this P. acnes bacteria:

"Many antibiotics have an anti-inflammatory effect, via TNFα-inhibition. However, amoxicillin–clavulanate (Bioclavid) has been shown to have a very small anti-inflammatory effect comparable to other antibiotics [32, 33] and only an inhibitory effect on IL-1 and IL-8, not TNFα which is present in the Modic changes. This was an additional reason for the selection of amoxicillin–clavulanate (Bioclavid) in this study. Normally, anti-inflammatory effects are rapid quite fast-acting, whereas in this study the effect took 6–8 weeks to manifest, more consistent with the clinical course of resolving infection in poorly vascularised infected tissue, i.e., an antibiotic effect."

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 1/9/2017 6:50:12 PM (GMT-7)


julymorning
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3808
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:41 PM (GMT -7)   
This is the article I was referring to. Fast forward if you want, until you get to the Orthopedic subheading.

emedicine.medscape.com/article/226337-overview
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme positive '92 untreated,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, Cong. Heart Failure, osteoarthritis. Treating PHY. an Internist, LLMD out of the question. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl since June '15, self pulsed.Current treatment with JK, Milk Thistle, beginning Hout. shortly. Will ad new supplements and herbs.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 6:57 PM (GMT -7)   
julymorning said...
This is the article I was referring to. Fast forward if you want, until you get to the Orthopedic subheading.

emedicine.medscape.com/article/226337-overview


Thanks for posting this. So this may be in my shoulder also.

I stand corrected. What confuses me is Doxy is used for acne. Why cant it reach this once deep in the body?

I have never had acne, must have went straight to my back.

For some reason anaerobic stuck with me but they do say it begins on the skin and is very common on the skin.

(Crap my power just went out for 2nd time today. The first was 6 hours long. Im on the backup battery until it dies)

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 1/9/2017 7:09:11 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27969
   Posted 1/9/2017 7:21 PM (GMT -7)   
So do you have a herniated disc?

I'm just wondering if it's treated with antibiotics - how do we know this isn't Lyme causing the back issues?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 7:27 PM (GMT -7)   
On a curious note, I started the day with this article here:
Bacterial, Fungal, Parasitic, and Viral Myositis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493084/

Take my word for it as there is no need to read it (unless you want to).

In table 2 it lists everything that causes Myositis (muscle pain), but not so fast, there is no mention of P. acnes

Yet julymorning found me evidence that this causes all kinds of muscle problems and potential heart problems (which scares me as I am on two weeks of Itraconazole which has a Black box warning for Congestive Heart Failure).

P. acnes has a good amount of similar symptoms of Lyme with muscle wasting. Very curious.

I am almost out of this med and will likely not repeat it anytime soon after Day 17.

I almost searched each pathogen in this useless article to try to find the root of my back problem. I am glad I searched "infectious disease and back pain" instead.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 7:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie said...
So do you have a herniated disc?

I'm just wondering if it's treated with antibiotics - how do we know this isn't Lyme causing the back issues?


Yes, herniated L5/S1 and flare ups from T4-10. Degenerative disc disease, Lumbago, compression fractures. It got worse for 26 years before showing a slight improvement in the last 2 years which is also odd.

I hadnt had a Lyme Symptom until 2 years ago with the yeast mold issue being the first.

No other Lyme symptom until recently.

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4441
   Posted 1/9/2017 7:35 PM (GMT -7)   
If you are trying to get him to script that abx ..you can get it from adc online for like 30c a pill. .if you are trying to justify longterm abx and hope he will monitor kidney liver function then you may have better luck presenting him with the info on the stratton protocol or the wheldon protocol for c . pneumonia.

It mirrors lyme treatment very closely with 3 abx combos (which will be more effective for lyme n co).and is thought to be the causitive agent in arthritis and ashma and ms ..www.cpnhelp.org

anectdotly ..we have been treating my fathers prostate cancer by going after the propionbacteium acnes ...he loved cipro ..after big herx he says he feel great ?..

We used the info of char boeme at www.dnafrequencies.com...

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/9/2017 7:49 PM (GMT -7)   
bluelyme said...
If you are trying to get him to script that abx ..you can get it from adc online for like 30c a pill. .if you are trying to justify longterm abx and hope he will monitor kidney liver function then you may have better luck presenting him with the info on the stratton protocol or the wheldon protocol for c . pneumonia.

It mirrors lyme treatment very closely with 3 abx combos (which will be more effective for lyme n co).and is thought to be the causitive agent in arthritis and ashma and ms ..www.cpnhelp.org

anectdotly ..we have been treating my fathers prostate cancer by going after the propionbacteium acnes ...he loved cipro ..after big herx he says he feel great ?..

We used the info of char boeme at www.dnafrequencies.com...


Great stuff especially if I end up self treating like Ive mostly had to out here. Thank You!

OptimisTick
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 86
   Posted 1/9/2017 10:16 PM (GMT -7)   
I read this study right around the time I found out I had Lyme. I herniated several of my discs about 15 yrs ago. I'm in pain 24/7. I felt I was going to kill two birds with one stone taking all the antibiotics for Lyme. What I didn't realize was this "cure" only helps people with Modic Type 1 changes, not Type 2 and 3. I have Type 2, so this did not work at all on my back pain. If you've had a recent MRI, it should be noted which type you have. I hope this works for you!
Bit in the 80's with bullseye rash
Diagnosed Nov 2015
IGeneX:
- IgM (IND): **31 +, **39 IND, **41+++
- IgG (Neg): **31 IND, **39 IND, **41+, 58+
- CD57 = 31

blueberrymuffin
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Date Joined Mar 2016
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   Posted 1/10/2017 6:25 AM (GMT -7)   
ChickenArise thank you
I also have chronic back pain, and before I was diagnosed with Lyme I also had it.
And once I had a bad tonidsilitis and my doctor gave me Gentamicin shots - and my back felt better
I didn't know anything about Lyme and bacteria at that moment, but now I realise that it was connected.
I got 10 shots, so it was too small amount to cure my back pain.

I really hope your doctor will give you abx you need.
I will also ask my doctor about this - but I have an appointment in two months time, so I must be patient.

I can really understand how you feel because chronic back pain is my worst problem. I cannot bend, I cannot squat, I cannot lift anything heavier than small bottle of water... It is so debilitating. I cannot live normal life. I always need someone to help me.
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ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 1/10/2017 7:48 AM (GMT -7)   
blueberrymuffin said...
ChickenArise thank you
I also have chronic back pain, and before I was diagnosed with Lyme I also had it.
And once I had a bad tonidsilitis and my doctor gave me Gentamicin shots - and my back felt better
...


That is a big tip off. After I read the study and checked my notes it made sense. I am really glad I keep notes in a daily health diary. This would explain my newer shoulder pain and my lungs hurting for the last 2 months regardless of the ozone treatments. It doesn't feel like 'air hunger' therefore it is likely not Babs.

I believe the ozone is keeping much of the other symptoms at bay.

It is nutty how some of this mimics Lyme.

Hair loss is slowing down noticeably after 2 weeks of Itraconazole 100mg bid....

JulyMorning, thanks again for the link as it has given me perspective on this.

bluelyme said...
If you are trying to get him to script that abx ..you can get it from adc online for like 30c a pill. ...
...


Does ADC require a script to purchase from them? Im showing a little over $1 per pill for Augmentin. How do I get it for 30c ? am I looking at the right site that starts with All Day an ends with Chemist smile ?
My email is in my profile if you wish to let me know off of the board. Thanks.

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 1/10/2017 8:01:48 AM (GMT-7)


ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/10/2017 8:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Also I would prefer to do ozone injections into the back but my local clinic just does IV into the arm.

I could travel if anyone knows where I might go or where I could get more info on options.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 1/11/2017 2:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Can anyone foresee any problem with being on Augmentin for 100 days.

I dont want to drive Borellia and Bart where it doesnt belong. I do want to try this but wonder about safety.


(I also dont see the pill for 30 cents online as suggested. I see a $1.09
am I missing something? can you put it in a tinyurl and email me the link or post the seven letters that follow tinyurl.com/"xxxxxxx" in quotes?)

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 1/11/2017 2:59 PM (GMT -7)   
ChickenArise said...
Can anyone foresee any problem with being on Augmentin for 100 days.

I dont want to drive Borellia and Bart where it doesnt belong. I do want to try this but wonder about safety.


(I also dont see the pill for 30 cents online as suggested. I see a $1.09
am I missing something? can you put it in a tinyurl and email me the link or post the seven letters that follow tinyurl.com/"xxxxxxx" in quotes?)


I've been on antibiotics for over 2 years now (except for a few months off)...so 100 days? shouldn't be a problem...but make sure you get blood work done - hematology, as well as liver and kidney function tests.

Note: For lyme and co-infections, mono therapy isn't recommended. It's alright to start on one antibiotic, but a second one should be added after a few weeks...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 1/11/2017 3:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie said...
...


So do you think I could cycle this with Penicillin? Pen was also used successfully with P. Acnes and I tollerate it well. What other abx would you recommend to use and how often would you switch up in the 100 days?

I cant handle Cipro. Which of these is easy to handle and works vs Bart or Borellia?

cefazolin
clindamycin
gentamicin
penicillin
vancomycin

I know I sound like I want it all handed to me on a silver platter. I apologize for coming off like this.

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 1/11/2017 3:52:20 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27969
   Posted 1/11/2017 4:17 PM (GMT -7)   
ChickenArise said...
Girlie said...
...


So do you think I could cycle this with Penicillin? Pen was also used successfully with P. Acnes and I tollerate it well. What other abx would you recommend to use and how often would you switch up in the 100 days?

I cant handle Cipro. Which of these is easy to handle and works vs Bart or Borellia?

cefazolin
clindamycin
gentamicin
penicillin
vancomycin

I know I sound like I want it all handed to me on a silver platter. I apologize for coming off like this.


No, you're not coming across like that...don't worry.

Augmentin is amoxicillin (and clavulanate) - from the penicillin class...so that wouldn't be good to pair those two.

You want something from a different class.

You should be taking the second antibiotic at the same time as the first one...not alternating.

I hadn't heard of cefazolin but figured it was a cephalosporin - so looked it up and it is - but it's 1st generation.
If you want a cephalosporin - you could take one from the 2nd generation (cefuroxime), or even better a 3rd generation one - Omnicef. Those are commonly prescribed for lyme.

You would have to check if the cephalosporin goes well with Augmentin. I haven't seen that combo.

Clindamycin is sometimes prescribed for Babesia. I also don't know if it's good to pair with the Augmentin.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14; added biaxin Sept. 26/14 Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.; Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin); Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif; Nov. switched mino to

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 1/11/2017 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie said...
....Augmentin is amoxicillin (and clavulanate) - from the penicillin class...so that wouldn't be good to pair those two.

You should be taking the second antibiotic at the same time as the first one...not alternating.

(cefuroxime), or ...Omnicef. Those are commonly prescribed for lyme.

You would have to check if the cephalosporin goes well with Augmentin. I haven't seen that combo.

Clindamycin is sometimes prescribed for Babesia. I also don't know if it's good to pair with the Augmentin.


Thanks for this input as it will save me a lot of time and possibly sorrow. I will check everything for contraindications.

Anyone else feel free to chime in. I am dealing with Bart and Borellia and have no clinical symptoms of Babs.

My wife is away but she told me the darkened spots returned on her tounge but not as pronounced as before.

We hit this with Ivermectin and Nitazoxanide (Alinia) at the same time and they did resolve after 2 months of being there. Im fairly certain the latter made the difference but it sounds like she will need to do more than 3 days on the next go round.

I suspect Borellia in her based solely on the strange dark patches. Also its likely she got it from me sexually. Her eye twitches some times but she is otherwise asymptomatic.
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