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Lyme and Cholesterol

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Lyme Disease
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Purple Tulip
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2006
Posts : 1324
Posted 2/22/2017 5:15 PM (GMT -8)
I've read Lyme skews certain tests. My LLDO suggested that it affects cholesterol. Are the results skewed or does Lyme affect your ability to break it down? Does anyone know?

I was shocked at my results today: very high (good cholesterol high too). Any thoughts?
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jrpsf
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Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 1762
Posted 2/22/2017 5:30 PM (GMT -8)
Both of mine were high too. What my doc said was that our inflammation skews that and not to be concerned. There is certainly no way our diet is causing high cholesterol and my family history is geared towards excellent cholesterol so I'm apt to believe him.
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Psilociraptor
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Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/22/2017 5:35 PM (GMT -8)
High cholesterol has little to do with cholesterol in your diet. Dyslipidemias are direct consequences of infection and inflammatory stress. Your body synthesizes cholesterol and VLDL in excess to sequester fat soluble bacterial "toxins" and excrete them. The reason you get it from dietary choices has more to do with selectively feeding gut microbiota and increasing inflammation than direct metabolism. So Lyme doesn't skew it, it causes it because that is how the body responds to infection.
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julymorning
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Posted 2/22/2017 5:54 PM (GMT -8)

Psilociraptor said...
High cholesterol has little to do with cholesterol in your diet. Dyslipidemias are direct consequences of infection and inflammatory stress. Your body synthesizes cholesterol and VLDL in excess to sequester fat soluble bacterial "toxins" and excrete them. The reason you get it from dietary choices has more to do with selectively feeding gut microbiota and increasing inflammation than direct metabolism. So Lyme doesn't skew it, it causes it because that is how the body responds to infection.

I tend to believe that because there is no rhyme or reason with mine bouncing up into flag range and then down again for awhile, and then back up again.......

HOWEVER, how is that explained for people that don't have Lyme? Are those people feeding some kind of inflammation too?
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jrpsf
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Posts : 1762
Posted 2/22/2017 6:00 PM (GMT -8)

Psilociraptor said...
High cholesterol has little to do with cholesterol in your diet. Dyslipidemias are direct consequences of infection and inflammatory stress. Your body synthesizes cholesterol and VLDL in excess to sequester fat soluble bacterial "toxins" and excrete them. The reason you get it from dietary choices has more to do with selectively feeding gut microbiota and increasing inflammation than direct metabolism. So Lyme doesn't skew it, it causes it because that is how the body responds to infection.

Thanks
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Purple Tulip
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Posted 2/22/2017 8:40 PM (GMT -8)
I don't know where you got such a good explanation but it really makes sense. I am going through quite a flare and my numbers are quite high! Thank you!!
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Psilociraptor
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Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 4:37 AM (GMT -8)

julymorning said...

Psilociraptor said...
High cholesterol has little to do with cholesterol in your diet. Dyslipidemias are direct consequences of infection and inflammatory stress. Your body synthesizes cholesterol and VLDL in excess to sequester fat soluble bacterial "toxins" and excrete them. The reason you get it from dietary choices has more to do with selectively feeding gut microbiota and increasing inflammation than direct metabolism. So Lyme doesn't skew it, it causes it because that is how the body responds to infection.

I tend to believe that because there is no rhyme or reason with mine bouncing up into flag range and then down again for awhile, and then back up again.......

HOWEVER, how is that explained for people that don't have Lyme? Are those people feeding some kind of inflammation too?

Yes. Like i said about diet... most people in the first world eat a highly inflammatory diet saturated with refined calories and little phytochemistry. This has many consequences but a relevant one here is that by eating refined diets you selectively feed oral and intestinal microbiota at the expense of others. So lets say you eat a vegetable full of complex carbs, polyphenols, terpenes, etc. All that differentially effects the microbes in your gut. In that mix are prebiotics for beneficial strains, antibiotics for other strains, things that don't kill but simply inhibit replication of opportunistic strains, things that alter their behavior, etc and promote overall balance in the gut ecology as determined by our evolutionary three way relationship with food, microbes and ourselves. Now let's compare that to an artificial food that contains abnormal levels of saturated fats. You're basically turning your gut into a culture dish for fat metabolizing microorganisms and compromising species diversity by starving others. These strains will overgrow, generate local inflammation which will degrade the intestinal lining, and they will be absorbed into the blood stream where they generate systemic inflammation (leaky gut). Gum disease will do the same thing. Just like lyme many of them will attempt to poke through the vascular endothelium to seek immune privileged tissues and immune cells will chase them into the vessel wall and initiate plaque formation possibly as a form of containment for the release of inflammatory cytokines which could be damaging to organs if left circulating at high levels. We know less about the actual process of how cholesterol/LDL/HDL play into this. But we know that inflammation upregulates cholesterol synthesis, vldl synthesis and lipase activity which causes a distribution of endotoxin between lipoproteins. The ultimate consequence is HDL returning to the liver full of neutralized endotoxin which gets pumped into the bile and ends up in your toilet where its inflammatory terror ends.

So yes, those non-lyme people have inflammation too. Which is why our rates of autoimmune diseases are like 1/6, 1/3-2/3 lifetime risk of cancer, cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death etc. Now the confusing part is that your lipid panels are going to change every time you eat a meal. This whole system basically traffics fats of all kinds. I'm not saying that a sausage breakfast won't change your blood lipids. But that's not where your risk for vascular disease comes from. We just simply don't really understand enough about the actual mechanisms to rightfully interpret the blood work. But we can identify some unhealthy patterns and do know that fat and cholesterol metabolism itself is not the issue (except maybe as a function of how it feeds your microbes). I just found this cool paper in fact that talks about plaque rupture... Apparently due to biofilms http://mbio.asm.org/content/5/3/e01206-14.full So yeah, all just a part of the human ecology

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 2/23/2017 5:41:39 AM (GMT-7)

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Purple Tulip
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Posted 2/23/2017 5:58 AM (GMT -8)
Amazing, Psilo!

By the way. You would love Dr Rawls book.
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36543
Posted 2/23/2017 6:29 AM (GMT -8)
Every time my cholesterol is tested, I'm either in range, or all the numbers are up. The regular docs keep trying to put me on cholesterol drugs (and I keep refusing). All of my research points to the same thing as Psilo is saying - only Psilo says it better. smile
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Psilociraptor
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Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 6:53 AM (GMT -8)
Cholesterol drugs are an insult to human intelligence. As i understand it there is a mild benefit for a small population of middle aged males who have already had a heart attack? In either case the whole premise behind them is wrong. Inhibiting cholesterol synthesis is like shooting the fireman because they're associated with fires. The only reason they have any benefit to anyone is because they are mild antiinflammatories and there are plenty of better and safer choices for that. I would think plant medicines would be particularly valuable to that. But you know... western medicine hard at work attacking the body because they think the body is attacking us.

I haven't checked out Rawls book. How is it?

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 2/23/2017 7:56:40 AM (GMT-7)

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Traveler
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Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36543
Posted 2/23/2017 6:55 AM (GMT -8)
Giggle, Psilo. I do like your description of shooting the fireman because they are associated with fires. My thoughts exactly.
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Psilociraptor
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Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 6:57 AM (GMT -8)
I can't take credit for that analogy unfortunately :P
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36543
Posted 2/23/2017 6:59 AM (GMT -8)
On here you can! LOL! You were the one that posted it here, so thank you for a morning giggle! smile
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Psilociraptor
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Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 7:09 AM (GMT -8)
Haha well glad i could offer up a giggle to someone. Make good use of it and have a good day!
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Traveler
Elite Member
Joined : May 2007
Posts : 36543
Posted 2/23/2017 8:32 AM (GMT -8)
You too, Psilo!! I'm sharing that analogy to my Mom who's doctor is doing her best to get her on cholesterol meds. She'll get a giggle out of that too.
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ChickenArise
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2015
Posts : 1553
Posted 2/23/2017 8:49 AM (GMT -8)
Mine was high following mold exposure. It is known that mold can cause this. Cholesterols are your bodys regulators. I would not take meds to lower them. Inflamation is what causes heart problems, not cholesterol.
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Psilociraptor
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 9:00 AM (GMT -8)
That's interesting with mold. I've only been able to find information on cholesterol with bacteria but i don't doubt for a minute that connection is there. But yeah, cholesterol is really really important stuff... If people truly had too much then statins wouldn't have so many side effects now would they? :P
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Purple Tulip
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2006
Posts : 1324
Posted 2/23/2017 9:20 AM (GMT -8)
Rawls' book is great. He explains a lot about microbiome of the person.

I am now even more curious. Great stuff!
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Psilociraptor
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 1420
Posted 2/23/2017 9:23 AM (GMT -8)
huh cool, i may have to check that out!
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3HumpedCamel
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2016
Posts : 578
Posted 2/23/2017 12:49 PM (GMT -8)
All super interesting. My cholesterol and all the different blood markers are scary low. The ratio is great, but everything else is super low.
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