Bartonella success stories using antibiotics?

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afiya4health
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Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 3/29/2017 3:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Have you gotten rid of Bartonella using antibiotics? What did you use?

If not you personally but you've seen some online, can you please post links of success treating Bartonella with antibiotics?

Traveler
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 3/29/2017 5:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Bump
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

julymorning
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3828
   Posted 3/29/2017 6:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm bumping too, and going to watch for comments because I just positively visually ID'd Bart rash and streaks on my daughter's chest, neck and face today. Plus she admits to the painful burning bottoms of her feet which Traveler, she agreed it felt like walking on broken glass.

I have to quiz her for symptoms when I see these things on her, because she never says a word. And she's 35 and I've begged her to write all this stuff down. I need to start carrying a symptom chart on me when I get to see her.

I took photos of all of it.

Post Edited (julymorning) : 3/29/2017 5:42:32 PM (GMT-6)


Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 670
   Posted 3/29/2017 8:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm just starting antibiox and LLMD thinks I have Bart. Soles of my feet are so painful in the morning I can barely get down the stairs. Starting with doxy then adding in tindazole (sp).
Symptoms started early summer 2016
Sept 2016 - internist referred to endocrinologist
Oct/Nov - endo increased thryoid med and Vit D; pos for MTHR
Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017 (internist ordered at my request)
LLMD first visit March 2017 - symptoms for borrelia, bart, babs
3/30/17 - start doxy
4/6/17 - start Tinizadole

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 3/29/2017 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Oy Bart seems to be the toughest one to treat. I've been directly hitting it with Tier 1 Bart drugs since Jan 2016 and I've hit a snag and haven't made anymore progress in about 7 months. I'm out of new abx to try so going to continue on ones i've already taken.

Sorry I know that's not what you asked but worth mentioning Bart is a very tough mudder and can take a long time to get under control.

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1716
   Posted 3/29/2017 9:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Ditto what Rikky said. I see my LLND tomorrow. I'm guessing he's going to keep me on Biaxin, Rifampin and Alinia but I am going to ask if there is anything new from the research world. I'm game for anything at this point. I want to keep progress going and Rifampin and my liver are not friends so I keep having to take breaks.

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4917
   Posted 3/30/2017 2:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Kat - not sure if tini has any effect on bart ...

from buhners book it has two envelopes to penetrate...
and the papers all say the only cidal drug for it is gentamycin

the one guy brave enuff to try this online i talked to said he lasted almost two weeks..

also not sure if roceph hits it but my llmd thinks it does ...
i have been using everything in the book at it and making some gains ...zith with rifampin pulsing with bee venom ,propolis ,houttynia and sida acuta with rife .and alinia hits it i think ...i am to try ceftin but not sure on that one either ...i havent tried cipro or levaquin but bactim may have hit it too (gave me vasculitis )

I hate bart ,it can be easily seen with a simple giemsa and 1000x microscope
here is tootys work of a bart actually chasing down lyme like its a *****/www.youtube.com/watch?v=F331jqs3qaE

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 2:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Ditto what Rikky and Jrpsf said.

...and this will bump up the thread ...for others to post their successes.


Chapelle kicked bart
and rowingmom's daughter
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2556
   Posted 3/30/2017 9:05 AM (GMT -6)   
This is not very encouraging! Are all strands of bartonella hard to beat?

I know Dr. H talks a lot about Dapsone having an effect on Lyme & Babs, but I wonder about Bart? The drug is similar to bactrim, which does have an effect on Bart.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 3/30/2017 9:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Antibiotics by definition are broad spectrum some work better on certain pathogens than others but make no mistake they're all effective to some degree.

The later generation abx have more ways to weaken/kill the microbes for example Omnicef is superior to Ceftin as its a 3rd generation vs 2nd generation cephalosporin. Still everyone is different with different strains of bacteria so its really trial and error but makes more sense to start with the latest drugs which have a greater spectrum of coverage. A few well respected LLMD's start you on Cefdinir given this.

For me personally Bactrim has had the most impact on my BLO. I've been taking it about 9 months now and nowhere near complete eradication. Just have to keep at it with mixing up quantities/types.

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1716
   Posted 3/30/2017 10:41 AM (GMT -6)   
bluelyme said...
Kat - not sure if tini has any effect on bart ...

from buhners book it has two envelopes to penetrate...
and the papers all say the only cidal drug for it is gentamycin

the one guy brave enuff to try this online i talked to said he lasted almost two weeks..

also not sure if roceph hits it but my llmd thinks it does ...
i have been using everything in the book at it and making some gains ...zith with rifampin pulsing with bee venom ,propolis ,houttynia and sida acuta with rife .and alinia hits it i think ...i am to try ceftin but not sure on that one either ...i havent tried cipro or levaquin but bactim may have hit it too (gave me vasculitis )

I hate bart ,it can be easily seen with a simple giemsa and 1000x microscope
here is tootys work of a bart actually chasing down lyme like its a *****/www.youtube.com/watch?v=F331jqs3qaE


I don't think Rocephin does hit Bart. I did months of IV pulsing Rocephin and it really helped my Lyme. I felt a ton better and then my Bart (possibly my Babs symptoms too) flared back up and I needed to stop and get back to treating them. Since then which was right before xmas I've been doing Biaxin, rifampin and Alinia. Biaxin messes with my heart....or does it get the Bart out?

sebreg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 1066
   Posted 3/30/2017 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
k07 said...
This is not very encouraging! Are all strands of bartonella hard to beat?

I know Dr. H talks a lot about Dapsone having an effect on Lyme & Babs, but I wonder about Bart? The drug is similar to bactrim, which does have an effect on Bart.


Great question. I am on this drug and do have bart, specifically asked doc if it has anti-bart activity, probably does but it is hard to say how much. Bart is super hard, at least for me it is, I think it is the main culprit in my case. I remember Dr Breitschwerdt having kind of a funny quote on killing the bart pathogen: “You cannot float humans or horses in enough Doxycycline to kill this bacteria.” Thinking of that image in my mind always made me laugh (hey you need to laugh whenever you can with this insane stuff right?!).

Takes a lot of persistence and trial/error and rotations within the protocol to get this thing. I'm on some heavy duty bart hitters myself, including double dose rifampin every other day and daily doxy. I'm on a few other meds (like cefdinir) but I think these are the main two for the bart that I'm currently on. I've made a lot of progress but it is slow and it is grueling. Whittling down these pathogens is like trying to move a mountain within my body.

We possibly might explore using one of the floroquinolones in the near future but those do make me quite nervous tbh. What do you guys think of these drugs and risk/benefit for difficult bart cases? Oh yeah we are also pulsing azithromycin once a month for 4 days. I got a massive herx on that which surprised me, I'd been on that drug forever but hadn't taken it in a long time.

If we do try floroquinolones and that doesn't do the trick doc mentioned a last line effort would be gentimycin (sp?). I think someone else mentioned this drug in the thread it is certainly high risk. I would rather not have to explore this option and I'm not sure I would be willing to try it.

Post Edited (sebreg) : 3/30/2017 10:44:36 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 12:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Sebreg:

I would save the fluoroquinolones for last resort - give the Rifampin a chance. How long have you been treating bart with Rifampin?

Some LLMD's do feel they are safe, though and the benefits outweigh the risks.

Double dose of Rifampin - meaning 1200 mgs daily?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

sebreg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 1066
   Posted 3/30/2017 12:18 PM (GMT -6)   
You know I guess it must not be double dose, it is 600mg total a day. Looks like I goofed in my thinking. Hmm, the rifampin I have probably been on for 6 months or so.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the floroquinolones. It is really helpful to hear from other patients, I tend to trust patients a bit more (especially on this forum) than I trust the doctors especially when it comes to analyzing potential risks of the meds! Patients tend to know what's up, and especially when you start going through the totality of the anecdotal stories it makes you think more carefully. Plus it is helpful hearing from informed patients and their thought processes when it comes to what they are willing to take or not take and why.

How are you doing with Girlie? are you currently on abx? I've been so out of the loop, hope you have been improving!!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 12:24 PM (GMT -6)   
sebreg said...
You know I guess it must not be double dose, it is 600mg total a day. Looks like I goofed in my thinking. Hmm, the rifampin I have probably been on for 6 months or so.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the floroquinolones. It is really helpful to hear from other patients, I tend to trust patients a bit more (especially on this forum) than I trust the doctors especially when it comes to analyzing potential risks of the meds! Patients tend to know what's up, and especially when you start going through the totality of the anecdotal stories it makes you think more carefully. Plus it is helpful hearing from informed patients and their thought processes when it comes to what they are willing to take or not take and why.

How are you doing with Girlie? are you currently on abx? I've been so out of the loop, hope you have been improving!!!


I often say I'm doing double dose once daily ...because I switched from 300 mg twice daily to 600 once daily.
But, it is kind of confusing...since it's not really a double dose...it's just takin the 'regular' doses together.

When I switched to 600 once daily...I herxed. I got nerve pain - left shin area (which was 'new' to me) and a few other symptoms.
stayed on that dose only for 3 months or so...and have now switched to Babesia treatment.

I am unsure at this point if I have Babesia...or just stubborn Bart.

My symptoms have been slowly leaving in the 2 1/2 plus years I've been treating.
I just didn't want to assume that I don't have Babesia...so am giving it a fair trial...and will go back to Bart after a few months.

I have/had between 35-40 symptoms from the start...and I have less than 10 now (just guessing without doing a tally)

Unfortunately my worst one(s) are still with me - one being my very first symptom...which I have heard sometimes that is the way they go...in reverse order...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 3/30/2017 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I tried Cipro and Levaquin both gave me neuropathy and tendinitis within a week and had to be stopped. After 5 straight days of Cipro 500mg 2x/day it hit me hard and the effects lasted over a week before calming down so it was definitely hitting something the other abx's weren't.

Was it just Bart or something else dying, I don't know as Cipro is a very strong broad spectrum killer but I'm guessing it was my bart. The shame is I can't use it again unless I want to try doing a very light pulsing protocol like M,W,F every few weeks.

I've done Rifampin for 4 months and Rifabutin for 7 months. Made some progress but have a ways to go. You'd think poisoning myself with all this would be more effective but alas it just isn't.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
I tried Cipro and Levaquin both gave me neuropathy and tendinitis within a week and had to be stopped. After 5 straight days of Cipro 500mg 2x/day it hit me hard and the effects lasted over a week before calming down so it was definitely hitting something the other abx's weren't.

Was it just Bart or something else dying, I don't know as Cipro is a very strong broad spectrum killer but I'm guessing it was my bart. The shame is I can't use it again unless I want to try doing a very light pulsing protocol like M,W,F every few weeks.

I've done Rifampin for 4 months and Rifabutin for 7 months. Made some progress but have a ways to go. You'd think poisoning myself with all this would be more effective but alas it just isn't.


Rikky - did you notice a difference with the Rifabutin vs Rifampin? i.e. improvement...or more herxing....

...and how does one tell if the symptoms of Cipro are a side effect or a herx...that is what is so darned difficult.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2556
   Posted 3/30/2017 1:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Sebreg - what % healed would you say you are at this point? What are your remaining symptoms? Did you ever have a positive bart test?

I am not willing to try floroquinolones. Those potential side effects are worse than my current symptoms. I'm giving the mino/plaq/rif + herbs a shot right now and possibly adding dapsone this summer.

ChickNorris
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 3/30/2017 1:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I am on Zithromax and Rifampin for bart. Currently treating bart, babesia, myco and EBV.
Not seeing any changes yet but only been on it for 2 weeks. I herxed pretty bad the first week or so, mostly with an increase in anxiety and depression.
Igenex 9/2016 31-I, 39-I, 41-++, 58-+ Igenex 2/2017 31-I, 41-++, 58-+, 66-+
CD57: 28
EBV, CMV, HHV-6, Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, Bartonella, Babesia
Hashimoto's, endometriosis, alopecia areata, migraines galore


11/22/16 started Doxy 100mg/2x a day, Samento and Banderol 10 drops/2x a day
1/10/17 stopped Doxy, abx break
2/10/17 started cryptoleptis
3/13/17 started Zithromax 500mg, Rifampin 600mg

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1716
   Posted 3/30/2017 6:34 PM (GMT -6)   
My LLND won't give patients dapsone. Too much risk. I asked him specifically today if it treated Bart and he said no, only Lyme.

I'm adding IV Hydrogen Peroxide and Artesunate treatments once a week starting Tuesday. I'll let you know how that goes. So I'll be taking Biaxin, Septra, Cryptolepis and Hottunya.

I'm also pretty sure I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a Bemer Pro Pemf. I think it may be the only way the treatments get all the way into all the places the bacteria has gotten. I'm so much better but I'm so tired of two steps forward, one step back.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 6:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Are you treating bart with the Septra/biaxin/houttuynia jrpsf? (and does your LLND think that will be enough for bart (no Rifampin) ?

Have you been on the oral Artesunate before?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1716
   Posted 3/30/2017 7:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Are you treating bart with the Septra/biaxin/houttuynia jrpsf? (and does your LLND think that will be enough for bart (no Rifampin) ?

Have you been on the oral Artesunate before?


My liver isn't tolerating the Rifampin well. I got pulled off of it for a while due to bad blood test results. Retested after a few weeks and my numbers were back within range so I went back on. I was on for 2-3 weeks and I started to feel the same way I'd felt when my liver wasn't handling it so I stopped again. I asked him about Rifabutin (or whatever other drug that sound very similar to Rifampin) and he said that's harder on the liver so that's a no go.

I haven't been on oral Artesunate before. Why?

There is a lot of belief that oxygenation is key and the H2HO IV's will help with that. My blood clots in the tube for IV ozone.

I googled IV H2HO and Artesunate and pulled up articles on cancer remedy, malaria, and bart.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33965
   Posted 3/30/2017 7:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Ive read Rifabutin is harder on the liver, too.

Funny - the lyme antibiotics caused my liver enzymes to rise...went off them...went on mino and rifampin...and they were fine...still are.
I'm thinking it could have been bart causing mine maybe...

I find the oral Artesunate quite 'strong' - as in it hits me hard. I never did do the full dose that my Dr. prescribed.
Smaller dose does what a larger dose of Artemisinin does to me.

Was just wondering if you had taken it orally before.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1716
   Posted 3/30/2017 8:09 PM (GMT -6)   
He's having me start on a smaller dose to see how I do. If I handle it ok he'll up it from there. I can usually handle most things (jinx) I trust my LLND and adore him which has really helped this process.

I want to get back to things I enjoy. As you know Girlie I'm a die hard San Jose Sharks fan. If they're fortunate enough to go past the first round of the playoffs this year I want to go to games. What's the point of being a season ticket holder for 15 years ....I miss going but it's been too much for me and my son resents that we no longer have that shared time even though he understands why. UGH! Condolences to your Hubby. Things are due to turn around.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2925
   Posted 3/30/2017 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie I can't say I noticed much of a difference between rifampin and rifabutin then again it wasn't a controlled study i swapped out protocols. I think they're both somewhat equally effective.
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