Muscle Wasting and the 3 B's

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
61 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2  3 
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Mustard Seed
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1168
   Posted 4/8/2017 7:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Is muscle wasting more common with any single co-infection than the others?

Or is it more commonly a Borrelia thing?

Can't seem to find any answers.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 4/8/2017 8:03 AM (GMT -6)   
My understanding is that it's more with Borrelia than anything else - but I haven't really delved into that. What I do keep seeing is that it's inflammation that happens, which breaks down muscle tissues, which the spirochetes then "feed" from. The break down of muscle provides the nutrients that the bacteria need -which is why we deal with a lot of inflammation.

This is just based on many articles that I have found saying something similar to the above -not necessarily word for word. I summarized...
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Laker7491
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2015
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 4/10/2017 9:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Traverler and Mustard Seed for this post. I'm having this problem and my LLMD didn't have a clue. I'm seeing a new LLNP soon so I will bring it up.

My pain migrates but it is staying in my arms, shoulders, and neck. Sometimes I can barely use my arm and other times it's fine. So weird. I am trying to rub it out and that really seems to help.
EBV- Diagnosed in 2014 - free of virus in 2015
Lyme Disease - Diagnosed in September of 2015
Babesia - just treated by symptoms. Free of Symptoms by 10/16
Bartonella - using Buhner's supplements and Spooky2 Rife machine
Hypothyroidism - diagnosed in 2009 on nature-throid
Not sure what else I may have since LLMD does not test for co-infections

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 4/10/2017 10:26 PM (GMT -6)   
This muscle wasting is really an issue for me.

I've obviously been dealing with inflammation for years but the muscle I've lost has been happening at an alarming rate since I began all the abx and co.

Im really scared that at my age I'll not get clear of these issues and get strong again.

Strong like before and back to normal....digging in the yard, a big garden, helping with cows and fence building, riding my motorcycle !

darnit is this recoverable ? I read so much on this forum and frankly I'm not feeling to optimistic right now.
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/10/2017 10:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes it's recoverable.

I think the key is to not give up.

I know a lady who was in her 60's and had LD for many years - I think maybe since childhood.

She treated for 3 1/2 years - stopped abx - I think it's been close to a year now and she's still doing great.

I think - what if she had stopped at 2 1/2 or 3 years? Just gave up at that point? You can't give up because maybe tomorrow is the day you will turn the corner.

She didn't see improvements until something like 2 years into treatment.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 4/10/2017 10:58 PM (GMT -6)   
I feel like a little gritch, only 5 months in and angry.

I do feel like my brain is awake for the first time in years but I'm so weak.

This Ceftin pulsing is %#@&$ !

I guess the bugs are not going quietly

How you feeling Girlie?
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/10/2017 11:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I had a pretty good day today - pain wise - but not sure if it's just because I'm now taking Gabapentin. I'm second guessing the decision to take it.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 4/10/2017 11:27 PM (GMT -6)   
If you're having less pain why are you second guessing it?
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/11/2017 12:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Village Crazy Lady said...
If you're having less pain why are you second guessing it?


Sorry - I didn't explain.

I just started a new protocol a few weeks ago for babesia ...and now I'm thinking I should have held off on the Gabapentin.
I don't know if the good day with less pain is because of the Gabapentin...or is it because the new treatment is working.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4715
   Posted 4/11/2017 2:44 AM (GMT -6)   
For me the wasting was nerve damage i believe was bartonella and borrelia..it happened site specific after i pissed off the buggers with 10days of bactrim.so far ....bee venom ,iv silver ,rifampin rocephin and herbs seems to have stopped it ..growing back im using collagen royal jelly ,aminos carnatine ,lions mane and soon prp and fermented wheat germ
thinking about hgh ,ivig and adipose relocation if i could find em.
like trav said stop inflammation, i used iv curcumin and dragons blood

Mustard Seed
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1168
   Posted 4/11/2017 7:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the help everyone.

Blue I'm going to have some questions for you about bee venom in a few months, thinking about trying it, my neighbor has bees.

Girlie, thanks for the story, makes me feel better about no improvement after 18 months treatment.

I wish there was a way to difinitively know what's causing my muscle wasting. My legs look like I have MS or ALS or something.

Purrrsiankitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 4/11/2017 8:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I ordered some collagen after reading about it on another post. Hoping it makes a difference ☺️
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Dx May 2015 Quest pos Elisa/neg WB. Doxy only. Restest Igenix lyme pos, neg CDC, 18 +, **23-25 IND, *30 +, **31+, **34 IND, **41+, **83-93++. Retest12/16 Igen 41+, 83-93+ whole blood-plasmid pos. Retest Lyme/co's. Neg co's. Suspected Bart. 7/15 start 16 mo of doxy, azith, ceftin. Finished 09/16. Cowden start 12/16

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 4/11/2017 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
I've added Collagen too and my Mother has started hgh, I always wait to see how something goes for her.
She's heard really good thing about hgh for muscles and more.

Hope everyone had a great day!
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/11/2017 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Village Crazy Lady said...
I've added Collagen too and my Mother has started hgh, I always wait to see how something goes for her.
She's heard really good thing about hgh for muscles and more.

Hope everyone had a great day!


Is your mother getting the injections?

Make sure she knows the side effects - they can be some of the same ones as Lyme and co's.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 4/11/2017 7:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't even think to ask her how it's being given, I'll talk with her more about it Sunday and I'll warn her about the side effects.

Thanks Girlie

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4715
   Posted 4/11/2017 10:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Anytime mustard....that seridiptious your neighbor has hives ...bees saved my life whats left of it ...i have a few threads on lymenut or feel free to pm me over there...

Laker7491
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2015
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 4/12/2017 8:22 AM (GMT -6)   
What does everyone do for the pain that it causes? Mine is getting so bad I can't get any relief. I'm taking supplements for Bartonella and Lyme and am seeing a new LLNP in June. My old LLMD didn't seem to know anything about it.

But until then I can barely use my arms they are so weak and they ache terribly. I take gabapentin for my neuropathy but it doesn't seem to make any difference with my arm pain.
EBV- Diagnosed in 2014 - free of virus in 2015
Lyme Disease - Diagnosed in September of 2015
Babesia - just treated by symptoms. Free of Symptoms by 10/16
Bartonella - using Buhner's supplements and Spooky2 Rife machine
Hypothyroidism - diagnosed in 2009 on nature-throid
Not sure what else I may have since LLMD does not test for co-infections

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 4/12/2017 8:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Laker, are you taking magnesium? I've chosen to use magnesium orotate based on this information:
www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/types-of-magnesium/

Mag. orotate helps me the most out of the different types that I have tried.

For the pain specifically, are you looking for pharma suggestions or herbal? Buhner does have some herbal suggestions you can try.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Laker7491
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2015
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 4/12/2017 11:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Traverler, yes I am taking that too, it doesn't seem to make any difference. I am open to anything. I have tried Tramadol which was too hard on my liver. I take 3200 mg of Gabapentin for my neuropathy which that doesn't seem to help with my muscle pain.

I take Corydalis 10:1 extract which doesn't seem to help much either. I have medical marijuana which helps by relaxing so much I fall asleep. I have kratom but it really stopped working for some reason, so I'm taking a break from that.

Epsom salt baths help but I have to keep getting in and out every couple of hours. I also take infrared sauna which helps but I can only take one 3very other day.

I never even thought about looking up pain herbs in my Buhner book. I'll do that now. It's just getting kind of scary. I try to use a stretchy band to try and keep up the muscles but a lot of the time it's just too painful. I can't wait til I see my new doctor.

Thanks so much!
EBV- Diagnosed in 2014 - free of virus in 2015
Lyme Disease - Diagnosed in September of 2015
Babesia - just treated by symptoms. Free of Symptoms by 10/16
Bartonella - using Buhner's supplements and Spooky2 Rife machine
Hypothyroidism - diagnosed in 2009 on nature-throid
Not sure what else I may have since LLMD does not test for co-infections

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4715
   Posted 4/12/2017 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Pain was so bad it felt like pirahanna eating my feet ...bvt stopped it its nice to have a different pain ..also stopped the burning sensations in my hand

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/12/2017 12:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Laker7491 said...
What does everyone do for the pain that it causes? Mine is getting so bad I can't get any relief. I'm taking supplements for Bartonella and Lyme and am seeing a new LLNP in June. My old LLMD didn't seem to know anything about it.

But until then I can barely use my arms they are so weak and they ache terribly. I take gabapentin for my neuropathy but it doesn't seem to make any difference with my arm pain.


How much Gaba are you taking? If it's a low dose...maybe you can raise it?

I've recently started it...and I'm on 300 mg twice daily now..took me a few weeks to get to that amount.

I've had a couple of really good days lately - pain greatly diminished. I'm wondering if it's the Gaba ...or the babesia treatment working. Bad timing on my part to take the Gaba soon after Babs treatment started.

This morning I woke up with burning pain...so this will be a good test for the Gabapentin.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Purrrsiankitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 4/12/2017 3:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Village Crazy Lady said...
I've added Collagen too and my Mother has started hgh, I always wait to see how something goes for her.
She's heard really good thing about hgh for muscles and more.

Hope everyone had a great day!
got my collagen today☺️ looking forward to rebuilding my ole body 😉

Purrrsiankitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 4/12/2017 3:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Laker7491 said...
What does everyone do for the pain that it causes? Mine is getting so bad I can't get any relief. I'm taking supplements for Bartonella and Lyme and am seeing a new LLNP in June. My old LLMD didn't seem to know anything about it.

But until then I can barely use my arms they are so weak and they ache terribly. I take gabapentin for my neuropathy but it doesn't seem to make any difference with my arm pain.


How much Gaba are you taking? If it's a low dose...maybe you can raise it?

I've recently started it...and I'm on 300 mg twice daily now..took me a few weeks to get to that amount.

I've had a couple of really good days lately - pain greatly diminished. I'm wondering if it's the Gaba ...or the babesia treatment working. Bad timing on my part to take the Gaba soon after Babs treatment started.

This morning I woke up with burning pain...so this will be a good test for the Gabapentin.


How's your pain, Girlie? Hope it improved during the day.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32601
   Posted 4/12/2017 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Purrrsiankitty said...
Girlie said...
Laker7491 said...
What does everyone do for the pain that it causes? Mine is getting so bad I can't get any relief. I'm taking supplements for Bartonella and Lyme and am seeing a new LLNP in June. My old LLMD didn't seem to know anything about it.

But until then I can barely use my arms they are so weak and they ache terribly. I take gabapentin for my neuropathy but it doesn't seem to make any difference with my arm pain.


How much Gaba are you taking? If it's a low dose...maybe you can raise it?

I've recently started it...and I'm on 300 mg twice daily now..took me a few weeks to get to that amount.

I've had a couple of really good days lately - pain greatly diminished. I'm wondering if it's the Gaba ...or the babesia treatment working. Bad timing on my part to take the Gaba soon after Babs treatment started.

This morning I woke up with burning pain...so this will be a good test for the Gabapentin.


How's your pain, Girlie? Hope it improved during the day.


Yes, it has improved...going to Physio now.
Thanks for asking!

I'm seriously thinking of adding the Collagen to my next Amazon order that I'm doing soon.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mcspike
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 165
   Posted 4/12/2017 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
The original post title mentions the "3 b's"...silly me thought it referred to b vitamins since its deficiencies thats ultimatley CAUSING the muscle wasting. I also have noticed an INCREASE in muscle wasting since startbof treatment two years ago.

Magnesium yes of course to relieve acute symptoms-someone mentioned having to get in-&-out of epsom salt bath= the magnesium helps temporarily...

A GOOD B-complex by Metabolic maintenece, and a product called 'core' by biopure-it contains manganese, molybdenum, b-6, chromium, magnesium, zinc, BIOTIN, and taurine.

But y'll likely know about the importance of a good B-complex!
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
61 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2  3 
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:22 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,130 posts in 326,156 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161230 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, JoyfulInquisitor.
474 Guest(s), 14 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
cpaarchie, Dimitri71, Serenity Now, PAPUN, convertible68, Scaredy Cat, UserANONYMOUS, Garion, Sara14, Laura25731, lennep123, quincy, suttie, Jack & Diane