Why is banderol making my joints hurt?

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Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 2:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi,

Apparently according to armin I don't have lyme, but I have a suppressed immune system great enough to make dr Armin say I have some other bacteria lurking in my body keeping me bed bound 50% of the day.

He started me on the cowden protocol, I had been doing takuna and samento and burbur and pinella under my nutritionist, the takuna makes an immediate effect. For the first month of full cowden I had best well being for six years, still bed bound, then started getting worse, herxing? Anyway I addressed that and soldiered on but one thing I noticed was my knees and elbows and fingers hurting, they have never hurt before. This improved during a Banderol break - the protocol cycles through different tinctures - been back on Banderol for 3 days and painful joints are back. WHY???? I am keeping the Banderol low as I suspect it is the major trigger for my decline as I was fine on samento and takuna for several months.

Any advice please or other experiences?

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Sulamaye!

I'm sorry - not fammiliar w/ Dr. A (is he a Lyme specialist? If so, please remove his full name - we try to protect those who are helping advance Lyme truth)...

Samento and Banderol are often given to help address cystic forms of borrelia and it sounds like you are herxing, which is quite common. I used to be a runner and a dancer - had never had joint problems until I started on abx and antimicrobial herbs. The pattern supports this - improvement during breaks, etc.

This is the time when you need to increase your detoxing protocol to help move the toxins out of your body, help you with the killing process. If switching up your detoxing protocol doesn't help, you might be too aggressive w/ the antimicrobials so maybe you can play around with dosing.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in 2000; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, + for Bart, CDC + for Bb. Multiple viruses & GI/immune treated first; started AL-Complex in May, A-Bart & A-Bab in July; Nov'14 IV port installed-started Rocephin; added vancomycin Mar'16
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock root; cholestyramine / jap. knotweed L-5-MTHFR LMN-V-II probiotic

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Dr. A is a German PhD/MD, so I'm not sure we really need to remove his name - he also is all over the internet talking about Lyme - plus, that's his first name. So we may be safe on that one.

I would agree with Pirouette about the herxing and the need for more detoxing. Binders may also be used to help lower the amount of toxins quickly.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Armin labs are a legitimate German lab testing for Lyme, so I don't think he gets attacked in the same way that uk dr s do as he is allowed to carry out tests and give results. My bloods with him basically came back as negative for Lyme.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:39 AM (GMT -6)   
But, that doesn't mean you don't have Lyme. Dr. A. should know that as well. There are quite a few strains that we still can't test for, which is why we still have to depend on clinical diagnoses.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Traveler what do you mean by binders? Re: detoxing when I was clearly herxing eg all my symptoms got worse and felt nausea all the time I did everything I could, infrared sauna and Epsom salt baths every other day, glutathione, ashwagandha, liver support, dry brushing, lemon juice and bicarbonate etc, can't say any of it helped, only really diminished when the protocol temporarily removed Banderol so I think that's what I need to reduce. But still don't understand why if I haven't got Lyme it's making my joints flare up, I thought that was a very specific Lyme rather than other bacteria problem.

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:42 AM (GMT -6)   
That was quick traveler, u answered while I was typing! Thanks. I hate the USA health system but sometimes I wish I wasn't reliant on the NHS alone and could access doctors who actually know something about all this rather than conclude it is psychosomatic like they do in the uk. Sometimes you just want help cutting a path don't you?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/5/2017 8:50 AM (GMT -6)   
LOL! Yep, I've seen as many as 4 people respond at the exact same time on this forum when it gets really busy!!

I'm definitely not a fan of the US health system, but it's better than what a lot of countries have. But, it's still not easy to find educated doctors with these infections. For example, I live in Arkansas, and there's not one single LLMD within traveling distance to me - they are all over 8 hours drive one way. Unfortunately, my state is not the only one like this either. So, while the US health care system is better than many countries have, it still has a way to go.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 9:17 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm very grateful to the NHS for having saved my life on more than one occasion and been there to treat me throughout my life with never a second thought for how to pay for it, but with m.e or Lyme it lets us down.

Traveler you never answered about what binders are?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 5/5/2017 9:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh!! Oops!! I'm so sorry!!! Binders are substances that will bind to certain things in our bloodstream. I prefer to use activated charcoal (easy to get, inexpensive and very effective for a number of toxins), but other use Citrus pectin, Zeolite, Diatomaceous Earth, natural clays that are safe to ingest... and I know I'm forgetting a few.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Ah thanks, yes I eat scoops of activated charcoal every night, forgot that one in my list.

dogsblood
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 5/5/2017 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Banderol and Samento did nothing for me, but I just upped my dose of LB Core and I'm having crazy arthritis like never before! It's got to be a herx? Just wanted to say that the same thing is happening to me.

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/5/2017 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the clarification on Dr A!

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in 2000; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, + for Bart, CDC + for Bb. Multiple viruses & GI/immune treated first; started AL-Complex in May, A-Bart & A-Bab in July; Nov'14 IV port installed-started Rocephin; added vancomycin Mar'16
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock root; cholestyramine / jap. knotweed L-5-MTHFR LMN-V-II probiotic

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/5/2017 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Dogs blood what is LB core?

dogsblood
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 5/7/2017 11:06 AM (GMT -6)   

Sulamaye
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 5/7/2017 1:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Aah, thanks. I'm going to add knotweed soon, but my problem with taking everything in one tablet is that you can't identify what is causing what effect. Like with me and Banderol, if I were taking my protocol in one substance I would not have been able to identify what was causing my herx reaction and mitigate or minimise it without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ruey
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts : 40
   Posted 1/4/2018 6:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Wondering if you had any resolution to the joint pain. I started Banderol 5 weeks ago and worked my self up from 1 drop to 9 drops and after 3 weeks I woke up with intense joint, muscle, bone and arthritic pain in my entire body. My doc dropped me down to 2 drops but the pain did not subside. Did your pain go away?
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