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bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/16/2017 11:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi ,i wanted to create a thread devoted to bvt and it may be sparse and quiet but for posterity and knowledge dissemination i thought it appropriate. There is facebooks and a few sites, plenty of you toobers

like the herbs or rife thread i am creating this to share ,guide and give-hope and knowledge. Please debate/argue elsewhere but Bee free to ask here.

Bee venom therapy is the treatment with the venom of honeybees.along with other products of the hive (propolis ,royal jelly and bee pollen)

bee venom may not be for everyone .a percentage of people are allergic.! Have a epipen on hand at all times if choosing this modality. Unless one has anaphylaxis most reactions are normal.

tweezers ,benadryl, epi pen ,bees and hootzspa is all one needs . It can be a investment in a hive or mail order at about 15$ a week.

the standard set by ellie lobel and her minions is 10 full stings ,3x a week for 2 to 3 years .she was abx for 15 yrs ,wheelchair bound and she is now traveling. Her story is nothing short of amazing

I have seen some improve with just microstings and heard of someone in mexico doing 75 stings a day. So like all lyme tx , i think it must be tailored ,tolerance built up and a willingness to persevere.

This is the famous 1997 study that started it that buhner propogates and may be the reason why people with ms have done so well with bvt as a treatment as opposed to immunosuppressive tx
/academic.oup.com/cid/article-lookup/doi/10.1086/516165

a good place for info is www.honeybeehealers.com
jen is a alumni of the american apitherapy society certification which was founded by charles mraz.

Some purists think it is best as monotherapy.although tooty and myself noticed gains in reducing symptoms and visually in our microscopes when using bvt with abx/herbs/rife

Bee venom is a toxin ,contains many peptides ,dopamine
and is more effective than glucosteroids in inflammation reduction. It is lipophilic ,antibacterial,antifungal and possibly anti-apicomplexian and antiviral as well as anticarcinagenic.

it regulates th1 /th2.and is a effective pain treatment modality It has been used for many centuries as a treatment for arthritis.(mycoplasma?)

I will post some studies on its effectiveness on staph,hiv ,and of course lyme n co.
eva sapi is long overdue in her 33 page paper on venom and its efficacy on borrelia biofilms
www.nhregister.com/article/NH/20151011/NEWS/151019914

when i began 1.5 years ago i was begining to have als like sx with extreme vertigo and pain .(plus many other horrible sx ,livedo ,ocular migraines ,tmj etc etc) .. I worked a 15hr day a few weeks ago

I have done many other treatments in combination and treated other pathogens with other modalities but bvt has been the staple ...

Also will continue to share progress ,experience and knowledge as well as encourage others to do the same thanks healing well

also getting a hive will ensure food pollenation, make flowers and help humanity

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 5/20/2017 2:11:09 AM (GMT-6)


bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/17/2017 12:05 AM (GMT -6)   
There is a injectable form made by venex that dr k and others uses for scar interferance and nueral and pain therapy. Imo it is not as hot and lacks a few properties of live venom.

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/17/2017 5:58 AM (GMT -6)   
YAY. YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY.

Cannot wait until I have wrapped up IV abx. Doing the bees.
Well, I gotta find someone who will do the bees for me--on me. I don't have the hootzpa. I'm terrified of bees but gonna do this.

Great thread!

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/17/2017 11:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I can look up some apitheripist in cali for you piŕo when youre ready...allens bees is a good source if you are a do it yourselfer

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/18/2017 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
So i got some bee venom eye drops and they have been helping with the photosensitivy also using them in my ears and the tinntus is reduced. Dancing bee acres has em .and yes they burn just a little .but that how ya know its workin...

bump for bostonmg

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2293
   Posted 5/18/2017 5:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the information Bluelyme. I am just amazed at how much information you and all our members have and share.

We have quite a database here that is and will be helpful to many for years and years to come.

I am so grateful for all of you and your post just makes me realize how fortunate I was to have found this forum.

Even though we might choose different ways to find healing, the options are all presented here and we have experienced members to offer support and help guide us.

Thanks so much and wishing you well. Sincerely, Jo

borrelioburgdorferii
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 245
   Posted 5/18/2017 6:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I would not hesitate to try this. I got stung by a nest of wasps when I was around ~11. I 10/10 Still I would do this treatment 100% now to mitigate the Lyme and Co symptoms, and totally on board with other alternative therapies absent traditional shortfalls of treatment. Thx BlueLyme.

jrpsf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2014
Total Posts : 1709
   Posted 5/18/2017 8:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Great post Blue-Just my opinion of course but I think your post should be added to the New To Lyme Thread so the info isn't lost.

I have a couple of questions. What's micro stinging and for those of us who are chicken ****'s is there any value to using propolis, royal jelly, and bee pollen? If so what and under what conditions? Besides purchasing bee venom cream from Dancing bee acre's for muscle pain relief (thanks for posting that previously) I am a BVT virgin because the idea of it scares the crappola out of me.

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/19/2017 2:14 AM (GMT -6)   
The bees have given me courage to face my greatest fear -the reaper comes for us all how we choose to face it is a choice .courage is having fear and facing it anyway.i was petrified to get a port and do iv abx but pirouette helped me with words of reassurance .

the microsting consists of removing the stinger manually with very fine tweezers and tapping it quickly (usually on acupuncture points ) (a good way to dafely test for allergy) wait 20 min with benadryl epi handy...a set is when you place said stinger in one spot and a full is when you let the bee do it .the dosing in theory is 10mcg ,100mcg,1000mcg respectively.

The cream from venex is a good test .it is 1/3 of a sting per linear inch. It will turn skin red and have amazing circulatory response .it stopped the drilling ache in my joint so well i wanted more and more .

there is a natural histamine response and a dropping of mast cells due to the degranulating nature of the venom . Itching in the first months in normal til your body no longer sees it as a threat (iocane powder princess bride )This is also why it can break the osp of borrelia imo . And it can also lyse cells to get the intercellular buggers. With bart i need extra ummph of herbs ,propolis and abx ..

i use a water based medical grade of green brazilian propolis .it is anticancer antitumor antibacterial and antifungal .it has helped against giardia and h pylori.

bee pollen is great for fatigue. It can desensitize local allergies so start slow .it has all the b vitamins except b12 .many aminos .
i have been using high dose royal jelly as it is saved for just feeding the queen .it is super high in aceytlcholine which octipi use to regrow limbs .it regulates hormones and is a potent biofilm buster according to buhner due to the undycenic acid . And manuka honey has healed wounds and staph that no pharma can touch .they evenake a patch now for burn victims.

start slow and low ...it took me a many months to work up to 20+bees per session. (All popping in my knees and elbow has abated ) .and while i was afraid to handle them i now tend my hive without a suit .its about zen and balance .
I am working on a documentary but maybe i will post some you tubes on the finer artistic points of the super acupuncture techniques

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/19/2017 2:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Wasps can sting multiple times and people mistake them for sweet honeybees which give their lives and chi when they sting imo its a relationship .and wasps dont have as much metlittin which is thought to be the antispirocheatal component.

Thanks jrpsf.mods only have the power to add threads to new to lyme but i would prefer the "lyme lingo "thread attached if anything

Little Bear (LB)
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 628
   Posted 5/20/2017 2:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi bluelyme!-

Thank You for starting this thread!! And for sharing all this information about BVT with us.

I think that you should open your own clinic! You can use your microscope to diagnose patients and then send them into the next room for BVT!!

Thank You for all your hard work!!
Misdiagnosed for 27 years. Below is my first thread.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3509506

Homozygous MTHFR a1298c
Started to talk normal again May 2016
Still dealing with other symptoms

Lyme Disease is a real MTHFR!!!

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/20/2017 2:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Only mds can diagnose treat etc.but i have been thinking about a lyme coop...so far another lyme patient and i have rife ,ir sauna bvt ,herbs and ozone .like monthly fee use as much as you like ...?

also i have been tossing the idea of a lyme liason...get a air b b ,hit up the iv clinics ,try bees ,get some hbot ,detox at the springs or ozone sauna, some vegan food stop by apothecary brew some chronic tonic etc etc

today i did 12 sets on my back it stopped all pain so far even went to a dinner.

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 5/20/2017 2:06:40 AM (GMT-6)


bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4891
   Posted 5/31/2017 7:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Just a update .I quit iv abx started Zhang and upped stings to 15-18 as few weeks back, rotating sting areas with great relief.just got back from a lttle holiday which i really needed.

1.5 years in working out again slowly .keep it up sean and keep us posted

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 5/31/2017 6:32:08 PM (GMT-6)


Sean.scott787
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 287
   Posted 5/31/2017 7:27 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been doing BVT for 8 months. Has helped way more than antibiotics. It helps to regulate the immune system instead of destroying it. Wish I knew about it earlier.

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6201
   Posted 5/31/2017 11:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the updates blue - I may just start bvt sooner than later - my hip joints are starting to hurt again. Went off the Rocephin 3 wks ago. The more I read your posts the more interested I get. I like your idea for videos - you do sound like you have made a ton of progress. Keep posting!

And the bee coop sounds fun.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

WV Mike
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 6/1/2017 4:31 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm a beekeeper. I have 23 hives at home and another 10 at an out yard. Working my bees is something that I really miss, I haven't been able to for over a month. I know from past experience that stinging does improve joint pain. It also is a great way to open up your sinuses, a sting on each eyebrow. I know this doesn't really add anything to the thread I'm just having a bad herxheimer reaction at the moment and trying to get my mind off of it.

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 269
   Posted 6/1/2017 11:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for doing this thread, Bluelyme! I too have been doing BVT! I am 14 months in and normally do 10-12 stings per session. My schedule is every other day, but sometimes it goes longer. It took me about a half year to work up to nominal "dosage" which is 10 stings per session. I have done as many as 16 per session but that was too "hot" for me....meaning I felt worse on it (probably too much kill). That said, it wasn't until I got to at least 10 stings per session that I really made gains. Beginners shouldn't go too fast, but the key is to work up to at least 10 stings per session as quickly as possible.

What I want to stress for anyone considering BVT is that normally (for me anyhow) you only feel BETTER when you sting!!! As long as you go slow and work your way up on stings per session, you only feel better and better. If you have pain (such as joint or muscle pain), the stings, at least temporarily, take that totally away! AND, for me, after stinging, my coordination and PD-like, MS-like, and ALS-like symptoms lessen! And, now, after months of stinging (along with ABX), my neuro-degenerative coordination symptoms are almost non-existent most of the time!!!

I LOVE TO STING!!!

If it wasn't for the bees, I would still be slowly dying! But, as I have stated elsewhere, I don't think the BVT alone would have gotten me to the place I am now at. For me, it has been the combination of the right ABX and BVT that has gotten me to where I am. But, ABX alone was allowing me to slowly die a painful, agonizing, wasting, hellish death. At my lowest point, I was only a vestige of my former relatively healthy self. I was beginning to resemble a concentration camp inmate.

BVT has been key for me in knocking back the infections AND rebuilding. I am still not out of the woods, but as Bluelyme said, the Grim Reaper is not right behind me anymore. I am actually enjoying life again.

If you read the available medical and scientific literature regarding bee venom and melittin (I scoured the literature) you will find that it has potent antimicrobial action against almost every pathogen known to infect man. Very potent against fungus, yeast, biofilm, L-forms, spirochetes, apicomplexans (protozoans), and gram positive bacteria!!! I don't think I missed anything. The only thing I found in the literature that it is not very potent against was gram negative bacteria. Bee venom has about 50% kill rate for those type of bacteria. That is why Bluelyme and I have supplemented our BVT with ABX and other antimicrobials with activity against those bacteria (such as Bart & BLO).

But, I emphasize!!!..... against all the others I mentioned BVT has VERY POTENT antimicrobial activity! Very high kill rates! Just an example: bee venom is more potent than Fluconazole for fungus. So, you get the idea.

I was going to encourage all to "Feel the burn!" but didn't know if that was appropriate considering it's a twist on a former political slogan, and, considering the fact that if you ice your sting areas beforehand, you really feel very little if anything when doing this therapy. Really!

Happy stinging!

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 269
   Posted 6/1/2017 11:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I did forget an infection. Bee venom has strong anti-viral activity as well! And, as someone mentioned earlier, it complements the immune system AND helps regulate it. So, this is the most potent form of antimicrobial treatment I have come across. And, believe me, I have heard about, studied, or done almost all of them.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 6/1/2017 1:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I find this bee-lievable and so fascinating. I am a scaredy cat of bees.

Thank blue for posting and also making it easy to find in our searches for future reference.
____________

Good Article

Purrrsiankitty
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 6/1/2017 4:52 PM (GMT -6)   
🐝
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Dx May 2015 Quest pos Elisa/neg WB. Doxy only. Restest Igenix lyme pos, neg CDC, 18 +, **23-25 IND, *30 +, **31+, **34 IND, **41+, **83-93++. Retest12/16 Igen 41+, 83-93+ whole blood-plasmid pos. Retest Lyme/co's. Neg co's. Suspected Bart. 7/15 start 16 mo of doxy, azith, ceftin. Finished 09/16. Cowden start 12/16 and stop April 2017 to deal with yeast and leaky gut

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 6/1/2017 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing Tooty!

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

AK
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 245
   Posted 6/1/2017 9:05 PM (GMT -6)   
BVT therapy really intrigues me however, I have had allergic reactions to wasp stings, so am assuming that I would also be allergic to bees. Does that seem accurate?

I have a son that has terrible pain in his back (which is probably lyme) I am wondering if the BVT might help with that? Is there literature on where to sting. Do people put them directly on painful areas? How many stings do you start with.

If one of you stinging people would send me an email with the source for bees, that would be wonderful and any other info you could provide that would be great!

THANKS!
Summer flu '91 Chronic Fatigue 5/92 Diagnosed July 98
3 years, 14 abx, minimal improvement by 2001
2001 off abx, many alternatives, good care, good diet,
played hockey and skied on weekends, raised kids, maintained huge gardens, lived life, didn't think about lyme
June 2016 shoved into relapse hell. May 2017 relapse
Borrelia, ehrlichia, babesia, bartonella, mycoplasma, yeast, EBV, cytomegalov

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 6/2/2017 12:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Wasp allergy may or may not mean bee sensitivity their venom is very different . My teacher had 1 client that could and another who could not ...benadryl was adminstered no epipen needed on microsting test .

directly on painful areas works well . Dive girl deb feels it has a 7 or 9 in radius of efficacy .ellie feels it is systemic . She claims relief of her hand arthritis only having stung her back ..i go where the ketes are hiding ..

i will send a email of sourcing bees . It is a cute Christian elderly apirary i started with until i got my own hives going .very cost effective .have epi and liquid benadry on hand .start with just 1 quick full on shoulder or between scapula and pull stinger out immediately. ..wait 20 to 30 min .should turn red swell a bit but this is normal ...then mirror other side sting and leave it in 3 -15min (this is full dose of 1 sting sac ) and one has begun with 1.5 with a goal of 10 full increasing by one maybe 2 every session. Brace for herx ...

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
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   Posted 6/2/2017 7:43 AM (GMT -6)   
would be great if there was an easier way of doing BVT without having to have your own bees and have them sting you over and over again. unfortunately that's a big barrier for most to try this modality.

blue any options out there that may be close to as effective as live bee stings?

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 269
   Posted 6/2/2017 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
would be great if there was an easier way of doing BVT without having to have your own bees and have them sting you over and over again. unfortunately that's a big barrier for most to try this modality.

blue any options out there that may be close to as effective as live bee stings?


You don't have to have your own hives to do this therapy. You can mail-order your bees on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. They are very cheap and the bees come right to your doorstep. It can't get any easier than that. As mono-therapy it's the cheapest, easiest, most effective treatment there is in my opinion. I guess each person has to determine if the risks, which basically amounts to a mental roadblock for most (since most people are NOT truly allergic to bee stings), outweigh the potential of getting well. For me, if this is all I had to do to make progress (unfortunately it seems I need ABX as well), I would consider it a dream protocol! No travelling to expensive doctor's visits, no expensive meds, no natural practitioner trying to sell me on their expensive supplements, no bloodwork......

They ONLY hinderance might be finding someone to administer the stings for you. But, it is very possible to do them yourself. I've done them in a pinch and there are youtube videos of people self-administering them.
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