ORAL SPIROCHETES must be dealt with

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
50 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/7/2017 6:50 AM (GMT -7)   
Magoo2 is right. Oral Spirochetes must be dealt with otherwise this is often the source for relapse.

My trip to CR didn't happen, but its probably a good thing. None of the dentists I contacted were aware of oral parasites even when they claimed to be a biological dentist. Replacement of failed implants is only half of the battle, as eradication of the spirochetes is needed.

This is a relatively new field of infectious disease and not widespread knowledge. Doctors don't work with dentists. We are discovering that if you have a chronic anything look to infectious disease as the cause.

I don't believe I have the money to take care of this problem in the US. The search continues.

I am looking for brainstorming suggestions that may help. I am experimenting with getting sun in the oral cavity as well as other ideas such as ozone.

The dentists in these examples are using laser debridement to clean up the mess. I would like to know any potential alternatives even if unproven.

Some links will appear below and the most comprehensive is the 2 hour video by William Nordquist who is a dentist in San Diego who has been studying periodontal disease and the relation to all infectious disease.

Some notes I took appear below the links. The important factors to consider are these bacteria are anaerobic and thrive in low oxygen areas. The abx don't seem to resolve these areas. inflammation is a reliable indicator of infectious disease.

Periodontal Disease and its Relationship to Systemic Disease (2 hours)

http://tinyurl.com/4ososos4

Other supportive shorter video have been arraigned using tinyurl.com/1ososos1

(increase the numbers by 1, youll will spot the pattern). I will be using the number 5 for the next find in the same pattern. If you have supportive video you should contact me with links so I may include it or go ahead and add it to the pattern.

My notes (may not convey the best as they are my notes)

Samples collected from molar

Spores survive abx, cysts 1 micron

Dealing with anaerobes

Vita D may further suppress Immune system upon bodies conversion.

oral spirochetes cause bone loss, cause implants to fail, potential to migrate.

chemical irrigation water pick hipocleanse or bleach see Dakins solution.

debridement and CO2 laser for high populations vaporizes and cauterizes gingival sulcus (GS).

tip of laser guide will clog and needs to be cleared.

periodontal populate epitherial cells (loaded with spirochete) in GS.

bleeding points and probing cause bacteremias so abx are used. Flagyl and Amoxy started 2 weeks before treatment.

Brushing and flossing not enough.

waterpik with Dakins solution. see http://tinyurl.com/2ososos2


lifeguardyourhealth.com
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 6/7/2017 6:58 AM (GMT -7)   
So, to pick your brain a bit.....
What I don't understand is why do we need to find "special" treatment for them? It's not like the oral spirochetes are the only ones that can infect the bones. Do the oral type need a different treatment? Or can they too be cleared with the same treatments that clear spirochetes from the rest of our bones in our body?

The reason I ask is because it's not like our mouths and heads are completely different systems from the rest of the body, so what is it about these spirochetes that are requiring different treatment?

And please remember, I'm only picking your brain (mine's not working yet, LOL!).
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I guess I should have said Magoo2 could be right on.

It appears that the abx might not be able to effectively reach these areas which exist in pockets above the gum line.

Implants and root canals are possible areas that abx may not be able to reach and be sources of continuous infection.

It also appears that the cyst forms mount a viable defense against all known methods of treatment.

The dentists promoting treatment for this use a laser debridement to remove infected tissue. I imagine root canal teeth must also be addressed as the video only mentions it briefly.

Some of the opinions expressed in the different videos suggest different treatments which include Dakins Solution.

I am interested in all treatments as well as the speculation of others as I explore this area.

I would like to see more evidence that long term abx actually work against the cyst forms especially above the gum line.

This is all new to me but I believe attention to this area may be of paramount importance and encourage the dialogue.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:20 AM (GMT -7)   
Those are honest questions that I have been pondering for myself as well. I know that my bones have been affected/infected and if there is literature that backs up that herbs and abx can't penetrate the bones well enough to get at the spirochetes (whether it's in the femur or mouth), I'd really like to see them.

Our body is and operates as a whole system, and I'm wondering what the difference would be here. I promise I'm not just being a negative Nelly, or just playing 'devil's advocate'. I'd honestly like to see some documentation on this as it would be yet another thing that I need to do for myself.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

lymehater
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 290
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Traveler said...
Those are honest questions that I have been pondering for myself as well. I know that my bones have been affected/infected and if there is literature that backs up that herbs and abx can't penetrate the bones well enough to get at the spirochetes (whether it's in the femur or mouth), I'd really like to see them.

Our body is and operates as a whole system, and I'm wondering what the difference would be here. I promise I'm not just being a negative Nelly, or just playing 'devil's advocate'. I'd honestly like to see some documentation on this as it would be yet another thing that I need to do for myself.

Hi how do you test to see if its infected your bones I am so curious if it has fo rme

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:29 AM (GMT -7)   
This is a good illustration of what periodontal bacteria do to the system. Unfortunately it only briefs on the periodontal and does not offer much in the way of solution.

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhrLOVN5_8E

The only penetration of bones I have come across is Amoxy in the form of Augmentin which may have its limits. This was mentioned in the clinical trials for P. Acnes for spine infection which I am convinced begins orally and travels through modifications made to teeth.

This study comes up in a search "back pain as infectious disease".

P. Acnes exists first as aerobic bacteria on the skin and then finds a preference to anaerobic areas of the spine.

We should continue to explore this area and expand the dialogue.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/7/2017 9:39:56 AM (GMT-6)


Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:31 AM (GMT -7)   
lymehater said...
Traveler said...
Those are honest questions that I have been pondering for myself as well. I know that my bones have been affected/infected and if there is literature that backs up that herbs and abx can't penetrate the bones well enough to get at the spirochetes (whether it's in the femur or mouth), I'd really like to see them.

Our body is and operates as a whole system, and I'm wondering what the difference would be here. I promise I'm not just being a negative Nelly, or just playing 'devil's advocate'. I'd honestly like to see some documentation on this as it would be yet another thing that I need to do for myself.

Hi how do you test to see if its infected your bones I am so curious if it has fo rme



Lymehater, I don't have a doctor that would run any tests on me, so I'm not sure. Hopefully others will know, but the first thing that comes to my mind is a bone marrow test looking for either the bacteria or the damage done - but that would be a "hit or miss" kind of approach, so hopefully there is a better way.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:44 AM (GMT -7)   
additional info is here. The problem is many of these dentists will not touch a Lyme afflicted patient. Nordquist does as does Magoo2 dentist in St. Louis. I am trying to find viable options that wont break the bank even if they are just speculative ones.

So where do we go from here?

http://martinimplants.com/oral-spirochete/
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:53 AM (GMT -7)   
More to explore on topic:

In the beginning Oral Systemic Health Dr Mark Cannon (1hr 17min) paraphrased:

" One thing I have learned is you never poo poo anyone and their theories....Sometimes you read something on the internet and its nutty, you look at their data, statistics, methodology is flawed but their conclusions are correct"

Discusses consequences of messing with biofilm (at after about 8 minutes) and other infectious disease:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBcnB79C8fw


http://www.drmarklcannon.com/presentations.html
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/7/2017 10:53:19 AM (GMT-6)


bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4441
   Posted 6/7/2017 8:40 PM (GMT -7)   
So my mother who saw the costa rica dentist cleared her cavitations but was not yet treating her chronic lyme . I love the microscope work of norquist btw the one formula that did kill ketes was honey with herbs (what herbs?) So after cavitatuon came back she found a dentist here who did ozone injections to clear bone infection . (Also btw i know my bones are infected with at least bartonella because of the low heme and platelet counts on my cbc) its slowly rising .

so i met a dentist at the apitherapy conference and asked if he would ever do venom in the mouth and he said he has used chlorine dioxide with great success even unbeknownst to patients .mms or a commercials one is closys brand stabalized mouthwash .
a few hardcore of the bvt nurses in next town iver h@ve used ozone and bvt with success.for cavitations .one said nothing else phased it. I have been using the cd mouthwash,microstings ,lots of propolis ,manuka or cats claw honey,oil rinses with coconut and oil of oregano and my gums are clearing up again. I also swish my andrographis /barberry tincture before swallowing ...yum

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 2021
   Posted 6/8/2017 12:56 AM (GMT -7)   
And this is why I say you have to treat the body as a whole reducing all pathogenic strains of bacteria, even the ones that are "beneficial." Our body has a tipping point at which we become ill. It's similar to our seizure threshold. It is the point the body can no longer handle its load and negative effects occur. With Lyme, the borrelia creates a bad environment for Lactobacillus and other gram positive bacteria in the GI tract and gram negative anaerobes flourish. In a normal GI tract, they are not harmful and are beneficial. In the Lyme patient's GI tract, gram negative anaerobes increase their numbers and even spread to other places like the joints, the mouth, any orifice they can get to. In these locations, they create problems and they're a problem in the GI tract as well. This can be called a leaky gut or translocation.

If you try to reduce spirochetes, my belief is that you can not eliminate them all. There are several reasons I feel this way but you don't have to eliminate them all. You just have to reduce their numbers enough to get below the threshold for which you become ill or feel bad. This is just spirochetes but you also need to reduce the gram negative anaerobes as well. Eating alkaline foods helps and reducing nitrogen intake helps. You must provide an GI environment conducive to gram positive bacterial growth. Fiber or inulin containing foods help with this. We know that yeasts and borrelia go hand in hand so increasing good yeasts like saccharomyces and limiting carbs would be beneficial as well.

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 6/8/2017 5:52 AM (GMT -7)   
Interesting discussion. I wonder if the oral spirochete and infection isn't the main issue?

How to clear and infection like this? Can be a simple dental operation and can much more of a challenge.
I suggest doing everything-ozone-local and systemic, antibiotics, homeopathics, supplements ect.

claude783
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 6/8/2017 6:13 AM (GMT -7)   
I have mentioned before how to build a Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation Machine. This can also be used on the gums and teeth.

Instead of putting the fiber optic under the tongue, you can go over the gum line with the UV light and kill the pathogens.

Look up my previous posts and you will see the way to build the uv machine.

God Bless, Claude

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/8/2017 6:39 AM (GMT -7)   
In the same Norquist video it spoke of how Vitamin D may be harmful in an immune compromised person and although I doubt a little sunlight could be a bad thing and believe it may be helpful, a wave of info is reaching me on how D3 supplementation is not the solution they thought it was and I am questioning if any supplementation is good.

There have been a few cases where the oral spirochete was the main issue and the Lyme symptoms cleared after it was addressed. I don't have references to this just anecdotal heresay.

I must admit reducing Nitrogen intake sounds nearly impossible to do, as it abounds in our atmosphere, but doing things that convert it before the bad buggers can utilize it sounds plausible.

Chlorine dioxide is known to kill everything. Sick buildings are gassed with the stuff. Much safer in the liquid form I am sure. Interesting that comes full circle to MMS use. I am not crazy about using it internally but definitely not opposed to using it as a mouth rinse.

UV light is an interesting option as light can penetrate where the water molecule may be too large.

Can we reduce the oral spirochete with simpler methods? Would they tell us if we could? The honey and herbs sounds interesting and its a shame the recipe wasn't revealed to us. It does sound like a baiting system for which xylitol and other sugar alcohols are the bait and the poison.

It seems that if you can get the ozone to the population of anaerobes by direct injection to the site of the infection that it is helpful almost always. The inflammation is the key marker of whether this is localized or a widespread infection.

I wonder how helpful baking sodas and salt rinses are. I am attempting to add them and then follow it up with a xylitol pull shortly after. I seem to be always on the verge of a dental infection but I continuously use the xylitol and it doesn't progress to the stage where I need ambesol. Its definitely doing something beneficial.

This new to me information has brought more questions than answers, but I am glad we are having the discussion.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien 3JUN-? ABX & Others BREAK
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/8/2017 7:59:25 AM (GMT-6)


Tazin
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 6/8/2017 12:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Magoo hello I wanted to ask how your ten pass ozone is coming along?
Have you tried div ozone aka the Robins method?
Your thoughts thx

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4441
   Posted 6/8/2017 3:05 PM (GMT -7)   
claude783 said...
I have mentioned before how to build a Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation Machine. This can also be used on the gums and teeth.

Instead of putting the fiber optic under the tongue, you can go over the gum line with the UV light and kill the pathogens.

Look up my previous posts and you will see the way to build the uv machine.

God Bless, Claude

i built one claude but it needs a brighter bulb, like car headlight wattage?

multifacetedme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 1574
   Posted 6/8/2017 3:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Nice exchange of relevant info - thanks!
Lyme Forum Moderator. Began considering lyme in January of 2016. Felt largely symptom free in December of 2016. Relapsed a bit, integrated new herbs, rallied. Still have symptoms, but my energy and strength is fully back! Just using chronic tonic in the moment.

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 956
   Posted 6/8/2017 3:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Tazin-Just did ten pass today-blood looks clean. I do one every two weeks now. I started doing 2 or 3 a week
For a challenging dental infection ( that my regular dds missed) I really think ten pass
and local injections really helped. I have not done the robins method of direct vein-but I would if I could find someone with experience around here or if I had no other options

Post Edited (magoo2) : 6/10/2017 2:16:48 PM (GMT-6)


claude783
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 6/8/2017 7:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Bluelyme, a 15 watt bulb is more than enough.

Are you using a 50 strand end glow fiber optic cable?

You can also get larger cable optic cables (70) strand.

The other thing you can do is increase the time, since the blood makes one complete pass through the body (depends on health) every 25 seconds, a two minute pass should be more than enough. If not, increase the amount of time.

With people with heart conditions, or other medical issues it can take up to a minute for the blood to make a pass.

I have been able to cure many diseases with the 15 watt bulb. Something the size of a car headlight in wattage "would" cause serious injury!

God Bless, Claude

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4441
   Posted 6/9/2017 2:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Maybe i need to build a reflector /reducer to direct light into cable more .i just have it 90* to the bulb .in a flourecent holder ...ya 50 strand maybe its too long 3ft?.

My llmd said she is getting german machine to do 10 pass.yay

claude783
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 6/9/2017 7:50 AM (GMT -7)   
I am wondering, did you drill a hole through the light fixture cover. Then put ONE END on the LIGHT BULB and the other end goes under the tongue.

The one end of the cable does touch the bulb.

As for a 3" cable, that does sound a little excessive, my cables are cut between 18" to 24".

Email me a snail mail address and I will burn off a usb drive with my research one UBI and Dinshah.

God Bless, Claude

Yellow Cat
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 6/10/2017 6:18 AM (GMT -7)   
claude783: could you give some more explanation how to build this uv machine? I can't find it in your previous posts

claude783
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 6/10/2017 10:37 AM (GMT -7)   
Purchase a G15T8 bulb from e-bay $20

Purchase a under counter flourscent light fixture (18") from WalMart $10

Purchase 50 strand end glow fiber optic cable on e-bay $20 will purchase 30' (don't remember exactly)

open up flourscent light fixture, remove bulb, drill hole in cover (allows fiber optic to be placed ON G15 bulb)

Replace Cover with the G15 bulb installed.

Get a pair of colored safety glasses from Harbor Freight.

Don't do more than 20 second of light the first few times. One end of fiber optic on bulb the other end under the tongue.

This will arrest the bacteria, but I don't think it is a cure. On Mar. 11 had another problem which caused me to have to change my light treatment.

On May 18, without the supporting dinshah lighting began to have the eye problems, balance problems, and the vertigo began to start up again. Also had the neck creaking.

I now realize that I am not going to cure this unless I can somehow talk the wife into taking this treatment with me. Our horizonal exercises keep us infected....since she won't try the light treatment, all I can hope to do is keep it in check.

Yellow Cat
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 6/11/2017 2:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Knowing how effective certain essential oils are in killing those bacteria I made quick search and found that dr Jernigan recommends using Thieves Mouthwash with device Waterpik Ultra Water Flosser, it might be worth trying.
davidjernigan.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-you-harboring-bacteria-in-your.html
/www.amazon.com/Waterpik-WP-100-Ultra-Water-Flosser/dp/B000GLRREU
/www.amazon.com/Thieves-Mouthwash-Young-Living-Essential/dp/B000OV40L0

Anybody read dr Nordquist books? There are two out there:
/www.amazon.com/Stealth-Killer-Spirochetosis-Missing-Labyrinth/dp/0976379783/
/www.amazon.com/Silent-Saboteurs-Unmasking-Spirochetes-Trillions/dp/0982513852/
Maybe there are some answers in those books?

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1241
   Posted 6/11/2017 9:37 PM (GMT -7)   
More by Dr. Norquist:

Oral Spirochetes associated with dental implants.
tinyurl.com/5ososos5

Excerpt from Mouth Matters Book:
tinyurl.com/6ososos6

AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith (on deck MINO/RIF)
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
50 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
Forum Information
Currently it is Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:39 PM (GMT -7)
There are a total of 2,906,611 posts in 318,977 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 158318 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Boston48.
518 Guest(s), 13 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Crispix, Erichardson234, PeteZa, oldbeek, Oldbuddy, LymeSick 🌟, n2braves, ASAdvocate, Chantrelle99, Evanston1, FLBeachgal, k07, Howard3569