Is a ketogenic diet good for poeple w/ Lymes?

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tickonboard
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/13/2017 11:57 AM (GMT -6)   
I was thinking this diet may be better for us Lymies because the carbs are more restricted, which I think would be good for limiting sugar into your body which feeds the parasites and parasitic bacterial infections in us? And just the damage sugar does in generally with inflammation and other things..

Also I heard it gives you the more energy.. of course there are healthy and un-healthy ways of doing this, the one I was looking at allows you 50grams of carbs a day, which can be a large amount of greens and veggies smile

Has anyone here had positive results with this kind of diet for their Lymes?
What lies behind us and ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Had Lymes for 6 1/2 fun (right) years before diagnosed in 2016
Started on Cowden Herbs in October 2016
On Buhners Herbal Protocol since January 2017

Pirouette
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   Posted 6/13/2017 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi tob -

I think it's a matter of choosing the right carbs, rather than low carbs. The body treats simple carbs - like white sugar, white potatoes, white rice, processed flours, etc. - as sugar. But there are complex carbs that are really important to include in our diets like dark green and other types of veggies, brown/wild rice, squash, sweet potatoes, etc.

I think the most well-rounded diet you can create, minus the sugar-like foods, is your best bet.

We do talk a lot about sugar-free diets in conversations about yeast/fungal treatment and for some people, at critical stages, it's important to cut out even fruit. I've read disagreement in posts about this in recent past but didn't get an opportunity to respond. In a nut shell:

- fruit is not the same as processed sugars but in high volume, it's tough for the body to process all the sugar at once, like in juices.

- whole fruits are much healthier for you than fruit juices; fruit juice is really pure sugar that your body has to try to process all at once (the whole fruit has a lot of fiber and water, which dilutes the amount of sugar - one orange is a LOT less sugar than the 10 oranges that went into your glass of OJ).

- and not all fruits are created equally - some like watermelon, bananas, have a lot more sugars than others.

- and for people who are battling serious yeast/fungal issues - no, fruits are not on the menu for the first stages. No one is saying to never eat fruit again but we are saying they need to be avoided until the antifungals and the body can dominate the yeast/fungus loads. Yeast/fungus feeds on sugar - it's that simple - and they don't care what kind of sugar it is. Our brains need sugar so hopefully, this restrictive stage is short.

- the body doesn't discern sugars when it comes to metabolizing them - white sugar, honey, fruit juice - it's all the same as far as the level of the sugars (although honey and molasses can have other benefits). If you're trying to avoid simple carbs (sugar) you also need to avoid all delivery systems of those sugars - even the "healthier" ones. Hopefully, this isn't forever but just in critical tx stages.

- and for some people, they will always need to avoid processed sugars, and carefully chose fruits, in order to avoid yeast/fungal overgrowth.

Hope that's helpful!

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 6/13/2017 11:16:29 AM (GMT-6)


Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 6/13/2017 12:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I do a low carb diet (nearly all of my carbs come from veggies), but not necessarily a keto diet. I do need some grains weekly to feel decent.

The Keto type diets do help some people with Lyme, but not all.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

caramba
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   Posted 6/13/2017 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm on it smile

I think it helps and overlaps with diets recommended for healing leaky gut as well.

Jinna
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 692
   Posted 6/13/2017 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I heard some people react very well with keto diet. Someone said that all candida symptoms disappeared very fast on that diet, so I tried it.

But after a few days, I felt like dying, literally.

I'm extremely thin, and I felt my internal organs were being literally being consumed.

After reading other people's experiences with diets, and trying so many approaches, I think there is no single answer, not even a couple of answers, but in fact, barely anyone is on the same diet for various reasons...

I guess the best is simply to try and see! Wish you good luck!

tickonboard
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/13/2017 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I've studied nutrition and know that we eat waaaaay to many carbs than ever. The keto diet is not a bad thing to be on long term as long as you stick to the 50 grams of carbs a day which like I said includes tons of greens and veggies and even some fruit to make up 50 grams. So you are getting all the nutrients you need.

even the Paleo diet doesn't include sratches or beans, these are not things we ate for thousands or billions of years as hunter/gathers. From what I read cutting back in carbs depletes all the Lymes strains and co-infections, parasites, yeast, all if it because they love that stuff and it makes them thrive, and I wonder if this is why we now have a harder time getting rid of Lymes in our bodies in this day and age than ever before?

I'm sure this diet isn't for everyone, and they say there is a period where you don't feel good when you go into "ketIsos (sp)" but I also gained a lot of weight since I got Lymes and this will also help that then it's better than also being at risk for diabetes on top of everything else, and people on the Keto diet also have lower cholesterol even tho you are eating more fat, I think what we were taught growing up about food is all backwards.

Of course it's important to keep up with all the vitamins and binders and things but It seems this lower carb thing would help all sorts of things.
What lies behind us and ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Had Lymes for 6 1/2 fun (right) years before diagnosed in 2016
Started on Cowden Herbs in October 2016
On Buhners Herbal Protocol since January 2017

Post Edited (tickonboard) : 6/13/2017 12:33:04 PM (GMT-6)


NotQuiteAntonio
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Date Joined Jan 2015
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   Posted 6/13/2017 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been on a ketogenic diet for months now, due to yeast/fungal issues. I'd prefer to be on a more balanced diet, simply due to the fact that I think it'd be more healthy overall, at least for gut health.

Many foods can contribute to leaky gut in their own way, but I've been very concerned with how so much protein and vegetables is affecting my gut. I eat a LOT of meat, and a lot of vegetables. Pounds. I wonder how that contributes to constipation issues, as well, which I've suffered from for the past couple years -- been doing vitamin C flushes a couplefew times a week. I should probably limit portions of those, and get my calories from healthy oils, but I don't know. I like having a sizable meal.

Like I said, I've been eating low carb for months, even a year or more, and have been on a number of antifungals, yet I still react to certain "problem" foods. I'm wondering if the mold presence in my home is to blame.

Anyway, in terms of feeling fed, maintaining weight, and the like, the ketogenic diet's been fine. Once you get past the adjustment phase, you feel normal.

Dunno. Needs more research, I think. Lots of people rave about the diet, and others not so much.
Do the work, be the prize.

tickonboard
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/13/2017 5:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing, have you added in some psyllium and bentonite clay to help your guts move along better? Apples are real good too, one a day is 20 carbs, it's always helped me with that sort of thing.
Also bone broth is a game changer for gut health and autoimmune stuff I found.. a good addition for us Lymers for sure overall.

A friend of mine is doing the keto diet meat free, he just adds yogurt and dairy, but that would be bad for Lyme stuff, maybe you could cut back in the meat and add more nuts and avocados and eggs?

There are also recipes using a spiral slicer to make zucchini and other veggies into a speggetti noodle type of thing- you probably know about all that being on it for as long as you have... yeah everyone's body is a little different, personally when I make juices added in like carrot,beet, Apple, parsley, cucumber.. I feel much better, like tons of energy and my mind feels awake..

Also the Paleo autoimmune diet is amazing!! That's the first one I tried where I really noticed a difference. Similar to the ketone but you don't count carbs but do cut out grains and eat more greens and meat.. There are some real good recipes for that which is good for the body batteling Lymes and it's friends.

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 6/13/2017 6:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Keto diet isn't really the same as the anti-fungal diet, but they share the same foundation of focus on what kind of carbs to eat - or not eat.

San Antonio -

When you react to "regular" healthy foods like chicken, veggies, you're talking about leaky gut. The undigested food particles, fecal matter and other toxins, etc. seep through the damaged mucosal lining and enter the bloodstream, where your immune system recognizes it as "foreign bodies" and starts the reaction to it. If your damage is significant enough, you could react to everything you eat, even the good stuff.

My IgG/IgA tests showed reactions to EVERYTHING.

The only thing you can do, if the reactions are severe, is to just allow your GI to heal. It takes a long time. I had some foods that caused no physical ailments or sx but they showed up really high on tests and I kept consuming them - my ND at the time suggested it was probably OK (like almonds, almond milk, chicken).

Other things I made sure to avoid - eggs, legumes, dairy, etc. I think you're aware of issues with those foods but if not I can share.

One of the things that helped me was a slow ratcheting down of the volume of food I ate.

This won't work for everyone - especially people who are really physical. But it is possible to function with fewer calories for a short period of time. Eating less volume - grazing rather than real meals was also key to my healing. It was just easier to digest a smaller amount of food. It takes awhile for your body to not demand a bunch of calories, but in time my stomach shrunk and demanded less. The more I healed, the more I was able to get back to a more regular schedule and size and type of meal.

- When you overload your GI - even with the good, healthy foods - it struggles.

- And a lot of veggies, and all at once, is a lot of roughage and that's hard on the raw, damaged mucosal lining.

- This is why I consumed most of my veggies in pureed, soup form.

- I backed way off the roughage (including salads) for a few months also, because I didn't want to increase slow motility, which also lets food sit on the mucosal lining longer than it should.

So, try more liquid/pureed/"deconstructed" foods, soups (it's summertime - cold soups are "in"), baby-food consistency, lots of broth-based soups (add frozen veggies and protein for convenience), and eat very small but frequent meals, rather than as you say "a sizeable meal".

Hope that's helpful.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 6/13/2017 5:32:15 PM (GMT-6)


mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 6/13/2017 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I do basically a Paleo diet. I eat some fruit and sweet potatoes, but those are pretty much my only carbs. I think the diet changes have had the biggest impact on my treatment.

tickonboard
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/13/2017 6:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Yeah I mainly eat soups which I sauté lots of chard and veggies into,
Purée 'ing them into the soup sounds like a good idea. Also smaller meals! Good point. I've noticed my nervous system gets "twitchy" if I eat larger meals :-/

When I cut out gluten all my joint pain went away..
And lots of other pain, it took 6 months to heal in my gut tho before I really noticed (I also couldn't eat anything and tested high on the IgE test) now if I eat any gluten by mistaken, my entire body is in extreme pain for a month sad but now I can thankfully eat foods I couldn't before, which was pretty much everything.

Diet is important with this stuff. I'm interested in seeing what happens cutting out sugar now as I think I have parasite and yeast stuff going on..
What lies behind us and ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Had Lymes for 6 1/2 fun (right) years before diagnosed in 2016
Started on Cowden Herbs in October 2016
On Buhners Herbal Protocol since January 2017

Post Edited (tickonboard) : 6/13/2017 5:56:58 PM (GMT-6)


ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1530
   Posted 6/13/2017 7:10 PM (GMT -6)   
When I was extremely yeasty from the mold the keto diet was beneficial to healing. You do feel like crap while your body converts from burning glucose to burning ketones.

As I got a handle on the yeast issues, I started adding in fruits which I handled much better than I thought I would. I limited them to lunch so it wouldnt effect the ketosis much.

Later I realized the healing powers of certain starches as well as the fact that I was losing too much weight and began to broaden the diet to include these more complex or resistant starches.

I still avoid all breads, and processed sugar. If I cheat with so much as a piece of chocolate, I pay for it, so it makes it easier to avoid.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO (next: RIF)
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

tickonboard
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/13/2017 7:18 PM (GMT -6)   
How long were you sick when your body was adjusting to Keto?
I heard it's like a flu?

My friend who is doing this said there are dark chocolates you can do in this diet, like real dark! But he claims he found some tasty ones which he has every day and saves him from staying on this diet, and there are lots of healthy antioxidants that come with a darker chocolate are beneficial.

What startches have these healing powers you speak of?
What lies behind us and ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Had Lymes for 6 1/2 fun (right) years before diagnosed in 2016
Started on Cowden Herbs in October 2016
On Buhners Herbal Protocol since January 2017

caramba
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Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 605
   Posted 6/13/2017 10:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it is usually under two weeks. I've read that endogenous ketones can speed that up/minimize the transition window.

borrelioburgdorferii
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 246
   Posted 6/14/2017 3:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes I think keto works. I read parts of Tim Ferris' book Tools of Titans. He says Ketogenic diet has mitigated his symptoms. I have luck and sometimes 80% or more symptom free with low glycemic, high fat (MCT or butter) and lean proteins. For instance, broccoli or asparagus or cauliflower and white chx meat, turkey breast or fish or tuna. Also raw cabbage and lean cuts of meat, peppered beef. Little or no starch, carbs, sugars, sodas, avoid caffeine maybe 1 cup coffee a day, try to avoid alcohol. Right now I'm about 30 hours into a water and coconut oil fast, feeling clear headed and productive for the most part. For Keto state to continue, Ferris recommends a tbsp of coconut oil intermittently during fast, 18 hours up to 3 days fasting at most, usually 2 days or 48 hours max fast for me. I may do the MCT oil now to continue keto state, unless I decide to break the fast. I think there is good Autophagy from ketogenic states.
Tick bite over 10 years ago with EM rash, past concussions
summer flu, chills, fever, neuro symptoms, sleep apnea, vertical nail ridges
untreated w/ABX until recently (2-3 years now)
Buhner's Protocol, Doxycycline, Amoxicillin, Supplements,
Minocycline, Metronidazole, Bactrim
IgG via IgeneX 31-IND, 41++, 58+ (Sep-2016)
IgM via IgeneX 31+, 41-IND (Sep-2016)

tickonboard
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/14/2017 10:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Good news for those who have anxiety- the Keto diet has unexpectingly helped my anxiety prob!?

I usually can feel it kick in later in the evening or night, my jaw gets tight and I just can't seem to relax..

Since I've been on the Keto diet this all went away and I find myself not even having to take a pill! I just googled it and sure enough, it helps anxiety and Depression, which I've been struggling with both as most Lymies do, and I can really feel my mood improving overall.

I've read now that this diet is known to improve how your brain works and with mood, This is really awesome!
What lies behind us and ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Had Lymes for 6 1/2 fun (right) years before diagnosed in 2016
Started on Cowden Herbs in October 2016
On Buhners Herbal Protocol since January 2017

Limitpusher4178
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 3/1/2018 11:22 AM (GMT -6)   
about White Rice vs Brown Rice... Do some research, while Brown rice has good nutrients it has one of the highest arsenic levels in rice. My wellness/LLMD doctor said PLEASE feed your family white rice and for now stay away from any glutens or any gluten free items that are dessert like, crackers, breads, cereals etc. She has me on an anti inflammation diet and lots of supplements. As of Monday my WBC count is still high at 16.2 (normal range 3.4 - 10.8) along with Absolute Neutrophils at 14.1 ( normal range 1.4-7.0). Last time I tested they were a tad lower and she piggy backed AZythromyacin on top of my daily Docxy.

Also something to note, chicken, even free range chicken is also high in arsenic levels. The only chicken I am to eat is certified organic, she says I am much better off staying with beef and fish.
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