Bill Rawls, Buhner Protocol or Cowden protocol??

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cokie
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Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 6/14/2017 6:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I am looking at all three, just read Dr Rawl's excellent book and trying to decide if one of these could be the answer I have been searching for. Has anyone tried one or two of these? Did you get better? Did you herx?Truly, I have never been this overwhelmed and confused about a protocol.. as always, any help is greatly appreciated

multifacetedme
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 1586
   Posted 6/14/2017 7:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Cokie - I decided to go the route of the Buhner protocol because I had heard it was the least expensive.
I have done many things in addition to this along the way, including Chinese herbs, and in January I began to take Chronic Tonic. Yes, I herxed, which I welcomed in that it was feedback that the herbs were getting at something. Yes, I've gotten better! For the past month and a half I cut way back on what I was taking in way of herbs and completely let go of my strict nutrition regime. I am listening to my intuition and getting back on track. Do you know how to do muscle or energy testing? A way of asking yourself which protocol would work best for you? Whenever I was in a state of not knowing, I'd use the sway version of the process. There is a ton of stuff on youtube. here is one link /www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9ikRMlI-jY. What I would do in the market is hold the supplement and ask my body, do you want this? Will this help? If I got a yes, I'd go through with the purchase.
Lyme Forum Moderator. Began considering lyme in January of 2016. Felt largely symptom free in December of 2016. Relapsed a bit, integrated new herbs, rallied. Still have symptoms, but my energy and strength is fully back! Just using chronic tonic in the moment.

cokie
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Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 6/14/2017 8:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you so much-very good advice

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 6/14/2017 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Cokie, I did Buhner's protocol because it was buying herbs and not buying from a particular person.

I absolutely love Rawls book and his information. It is the top dog in my book. But, I am not sure about the VitalPlan. I have absolutely no information about it. It came about just about the time I was healed from the Buhner's protocol.

Now I must add that along with the Buhner's protocol I began with Beyond Balance, Mc-BB-1 and Tox Ease GL. I am totally convinced that those really helped me. I actually started with Beyond Balance and noticed I was getting better. I was too impatient to just do those 2 tinctures. I read a lot and found that the majority of people on the internet were healing with Buhner's at the time I was researching. So I added in his protocol.

Hubby did the same thing that I did and he is healed also.

We both eat super clean, we both have been detoxing for years before lyme and we both have no stress or responsibilities..... I am so sure that this is why we both healed so quickly. We don't have to do anything if we don't want to.
____________

Good Article

The Dude Abides
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Date Joined May 2017
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   Posted 6/14/2017 9:04 PM (GMT -6)   
PeteZa said...
"...we both have no stress or responsibilities..." "We don't have to do anything if we don't want to."


Now, THAT sounds like the way to live! turn

cokie
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Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 6/14/2017 9:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I am amazed you did all that on your own.. I feel I need a coach or a doctor guiding me because of the herxing I hear so much about. So you did those supplements while doing the Buhner protocol? Thank you so much for this great information and so glad you and your hubby are healed...👍💝

Randy Eichner
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 6/14/2017 11:01 PM (GMT -6)   
I have massive concerns for someone who bit off buhners cookie and is making money off of the sick. HIs products are a cookie cutter version of buhners and one size does not fit all. Buhner is awesome cuz he gave away most of his info for free minus the books but even they are very cheap and last forever. Could it be a possible starting point for some people like mm chronic tonic? Yes, but it will not cover everything for good. In an ode to the Jedi... U must travel your own path.
Igenix+ bands 23-25,31,41,58,66
Muscle Test Dx for:
Babs,Bart,Chlamydia,Myco & RMSF
Sprinkled with a lil Metal toxicity.
Detox- fir sauna, epsom soak,earthing,Burdock Root
Nutition- paleo, organic, non GMO & ro water
Apitherapy-Bee Pollen,Propolis & Royal Jelly
Herb Prote- MM Chronic Tonic & Sida Plus
My thread for CT:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3760786<

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 6/14/2017 11:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Does he have a "formula" for Bartonella and Babesia? (Rawls)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

cokie
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 315
   Posted 6/15/2017 9:01 PM (GMT -6)   
The detoxing is what I need to learn now-Pete Za, what kinds of detoxing do you do?

Randy Eichner
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 6/16/2017 12:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Not for Bart,myco, erlichia or brucella or even rmsf but he does add artemisia for Babs but says how toxic it can be.
Igenix+ bands 23-25,31,41,58,66
Muscle Test Dx for:
Babs,Bart,Chlamydia,Myco & RMSF
Sprinkled with a lil Metal toxicity.
Detox- fir sauna, epsom soak,earthing,Burdock Root
Nutition- paleo, organic, non GMO & ro water
Apitherapy-Bee Pollen,Propolis & Royal Jelly
Herb Prote- MM Chronic Tonic & Sida Plus
My thread for CT:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3760786<

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 6/16/2017 1:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Randy Eichner said...
Not for Bart,myco, erlichia or brucella or even rmsf but he does add artemisia for Babs but says how toxic it can be.


That's odd since we do usually have Bart and or Babs - and usually Artemisia isn't enough alone for Babs.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

BeKindPls
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 6/16/2017 6:08 AM (GMT -6)   
In an effort to simplify, I am going to take just the immune builder from Rawls as well as individual tinctures that Buhner recommends. Rawls program is a ton of pills, I tried it last summer. The one formula didn't agree with me because of the cat's claw. Anyway, I like the idea of being able to control the exact amount I want through tinctures. Best to all smile

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 6/16/2017 9:59 AM (GMT -6)   
BeKindPls this is why I did Buhner's protocol. I am in control of the amount I would take. Like has been said on here time and time again, we are all different. I knew that my dose of Japanese Knotweed would NOT be the same as everyone else. Tinctures give you a lot of control.

Cokie, I loved the Beyond Balance Tox Ease GL. It is a tincture. Hubby and I both were huge detoxing people way before lyme disease. Only we did not call it detoxing. We just call it eating healthy. We have done lemon water for years. Bragg's apple cider vinegar (of course with the Mother), a splash in water is so refreshing to us. We eat fermented foods often. Huge on greens. Love bright vibrant colored vegetables. I have been a veggie freak since I was a child. 3 girls in our family. One did meat and starch for dinner, one did desserts and I was in charge of vegetables. I am so glad for this part of my upbringing.

The Dude Abides, hubby worked for over 30 years at this last job and his pension is nice. I am a retired teamster woman and my pension is nice. Plus now I get social security. It is a "fixed income" and is nice now and we are both glad we did huge income into our 401Ks, 457Ks and our stock portfolio. We can see the day where our income won't sustain our Whole Foods budget. But thankfully more and more options are coming about for healthy good organic food. I wish I could convince my grandchildren to do what we did financially ..... I love Dave Ramsey!!
____________

Good Article

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 6/16/2017 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
cokie said...
The detoxing is what I need to learn now-Pete Za, what kinds of detoxing do you do?


I'm not PeteZa (and she's already answered), but here's what I do for detoxing to give you some perspective, as it's different for each of us:
I use a foot soak,
dry skin brushing,
making sure my bowels moved at least once a day (sorry if it's TMI!)
pushing myself to drink at least 64 ounces of lemon water each and every day,
liver/gall bladder flushes (all natural), as needed,
oil pulling with tea tree oil,
taking activated charcoal, as needed,
Alpha lipoic acid,
Quercetin,
​ turmeric,
Methyl B-12 and methyl folate,
Dandelion tincture,
red root tincture,
Yogi brand detox tea (original flavor)
Have recently added cytokine remodulators - Chinese Skullcap and Red clover extracts
and keeping the amount of stress in my life at a bare minimum.

​ I have used apple cider vinegar to help with detoxing as well - it's really good, but started making my stomach issues worse, so I stopped using it daily and only use it occasionally when I know I need a boost in my detoxing for just a day or two.​

You can find some really good detoxing suggestions in the "New to Lyme?" thread that sits at the top of the forum. And this is another really good resource for detoxing ideas for Lyme patients:
www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html


So the thing is to add each detoxing routine in slowly and as your body tolerates them. Start with things that are easy - adding lemon to your water (but be sure to brush your teeth afterwards, as the lemon is hard on the enamel!), dry skin brushing, lymph massages, and Epsom salt soaks (I use only the foot soaks because the full body soaks are too much for me).
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 6/16/2017 10:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Cokie, here is a great thread about detoxing.

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3602759

More is not necessarily better. In my opinion, you can spend more time detoxing than healing. Everything is balance. Lyme toxins and all the other toxins we encounter daily are needing a way out of our body. Detoxing is giving them a clear pathway out. Our skin is a huge organ. Keeping it clear is essential. Do not slather on a lot of lotion or perfumes that can block those cells. I love my loofah sponge in my shower.

All the organs need good help. The Tired of Lyme website is great for more examples.
____________

Good Article

BeKindPls
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 6/16/2017 10:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Can you elaborate on ACV for detoxing? Do you drink it everyday or only when you herx? How much do you drink? Thanks!

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 6/16/2017 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I started out with 1 tsp in a cup of water (you can add stevia too). As I tolerated that more, I increased to 2 tsp and finally to 3 tsp/1 tablespoon. When I first started, I learned to have my food ready, take the ACV and then sit down to eat immediately to ease the discomfort.

Some do only use it for when they herx because they do enough detoxing by other means to do well for the most part.

I started having more issues with my digestion, so I stopped it, but will still use it from time to time to boost my detox or stomach acid.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Purrrsiankitty
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 6/16/2017 11:07 AM (GMT -6)   
I went from antibiotics to cowden's. Antibiotics did not bring improvement. They did further damage my gut, I'm sure.

Did cowden's help? I don't know, but I realized that all the herbals and pharm in the world wont help if you have issues such as leaky gut, Candida, metals, mold. That's the importance of testing to get a baseline.

Although testing can be in accurate at times, it can be helpful. If improvement is not made, testing should definitely be considered.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Dx May 2015 Quest pos Elisa/neg WB. Doxy only. Restest Igenix lyme pos, neg CDC, 18 +, **23-25 IND, *30 +, **31+, **34 IND, **41+, **83-93++. Retest12/16 Igen 41+, 83-93+ whole blood-plasmid pos. Retest Lyme/co's. Neg co's. Suspected Bart. 7/15 start 16 mo of doxy, azith, ceftin. Finished 09/16. Cowden start 12/16 and stop April 2017 to deal with yeast and leaky gut

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
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   Posted 6/16/2017 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
BeKindPls said...
Can you elaborate on ACV for detoxing? Do you drink it everyday or only when you herx? How much do you drink? Thanks!


I don't do lemon water and ACV water on the same days. I have no reasoning for this. Just my way of thinking. I do get a lot of ACV in my Kombucha that I do drink daily - even on the days I do lemon water. Also we love pickles and fermented foods so there is ACV in some of those.

I generally do lemon water but when I either tire of that, or run out, I do ACV. Just whatever mood I am in. Availability plays into my taking this also. Lemons or 100% pure organic lemon juice runs out in our house quickly with the 2 of us doing it.

I just put a splash (like a capfull) of ACV in 8 oz of water and I'm a chugger. Hubby will nurse his along for almost an hour.

I have done all of these for years prior to lyme. So, I never looked at it as a herx remedy. I think the continual consumption was what kept us from ever herxing.

hollsya
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 6/16/2017 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Purrrsiankitty, how do you test for leaky gut/candida/mold? I think I have problems with all three, but my LLMD just keeps throwing abx at me.

multifacetedme
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Date Joined Jan 2016
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   Posted 6/16/2017 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Randy " I have massive concerns for someone who bit off buhners cookie and is making money off of the sick. HIs products are a cookie cutter version of buhners and one size does not fit all. " I TOTALLY AGREE when it comes to integrity in product/process.
Purrsiankitty - what wonderful insight with regard to leaky gut/candida/mold!
In December of 2015. I thought I was dying. I began to research symptoms and began considering lyme in January of 2016 and the Horowitz Questionnaire convinced me to take immediate right action: changed diet, used Buhner recommended herbs, followed advice here. Today I feel GREAT and although I have some remaining symptoms, my health is basically back.

Purrrsiankitty
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 6/16/2017 12:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I
hollsya said...
Purrrsiankitty, how do you test for leaky gut/candida/mold? I think I have problems with all three, but my LLMD just keeps throwing abx at me.
so did mine.

Leaky gut, parasite and Candida testing was done be Genova. LabCorp did mold. Also remember adrenal testing is important if fatigue is relentless, also Genova 😊

Purrrsiankitty
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 6/16/2017 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
multifacetedme said...
Randy " I have massive concerns for someone who bit off buhners cookie and is making money off of the sick. HIs products are a cookie cutter version of buhners and one size does not fit all. " I TOTALLY AGREE when it comes to integrity in product/process.
Purrsiankitty - what wonderful insight with regard to leaky gut/candida/mold!
I said something insightful? Wow, write it on the calendar. Thanks, I appreciate the comment 😊

hollsya
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 6/16/2017 1:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, Purrrsiankitty! I'm googling Genova now.

Aylett
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 8/9/2017 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I just wanted to add that I scheduled Bill Rawls as speaker for our group in Richmond Virginia on 8-5-17. He seems very kind. He praises Stephen Buhner and readily credits him for the origin of the Rawls protocol. I have not tried the Rawls protocol yet - it's only been 4 days since his presentation - but I think he is offering the protocol for people like me, who never made Buhner's protocol work. I still work part-time. Buhner was too many things to keep track of. The powders were hard to take in large enough doses. The tinctures were very expensive. I was constantly concerned about quality. For me, Buhner's protocol added too much stress and complication. (Stress is bad for the immune system because it decreases endorphins.) Anyway, I don't think Bill is trying to rip anybody off. He seems a conservative and kind doctor. His book Lyme Unlocked is well worth reading. The Rawls protocol and support are a good idea, I just need to think about it some before I make a move.

All the best to you if you have a different opinion! Aylett
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