Could this be another herx sign I have Lyme?

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mudshark
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 8/12/2017 7:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Still waiting to see LLMD and no official diagnosis yet, but I started taking penicillin VK a couple days ago for an infection in one of my teeth that had a previous root canal. The tooth has to come out and I'm getting pulled it in a couple weeks.

Lower leg and foot cramping, burning skin, twitching and muscle tightness are some my main symptoms. Quickly after I started taking the penicillin all this got a lot worse. Burning skin, muscle cramps and disturbed sleep especially are worse than ever. Rubbery leg feeling is back again, and that's been gone for weeks. Things started ramping up a few days before when I started taking Japanese knotweed, but this really seemed to stir up a big reaction.

Could this be another herx sign suggesting I have Lyme? Could it happen so quickly after taking abx?

I saw my Homeopathic doctor a couple days ago and he got me really confused. He was convinced I had an intracellular parasite causing my problems, but now he thinks it's my immune system in high gear causing my problems, set off by some kind of parasite. He tested my response to a couple abx's, but he felt they made no improvement so he doesn't think it is bacteria related. If I'm having a herx from taking penicillin then that would contradict what he is thinking.

He also wrote me a lab slip to test for Bartonella, but isn't that a bacteria? I saw it classified as a parasite type, but thought it was a gram-neg bacteria.

Thanks

summer16
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Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 8/12/2017 7:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes, Bartonella is a bacteria and yes symptoms can come on quickly when starting antibiotics. The LLMD will be able to diagnose you.


Patty

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9210
   Posted 8/12/2017 7:21 AM (GMT -7)   
This is a great article:

www.tiredoflyme.com/herx-vs-flare-up.html

A herx does not necessarily have to happen at the time of ingestion of antibiotics. Look here--- a herx can happen a year later????? YES it can.

In some cases, a person with chronic Lyme can technically re-herx. This happens when the toxins released from a herxheimer reaction a year ago -- or anytime prior to the current herxheimer reaction -- couldn’t be removed and were stored in fat cells, are now being asked once again to leave the body. The cause for this could be from heating the body, such as with an infrared sauna or exercise, or treating a biotoxin illness with a fat binder (Lyme endotoxins are fat based) such as modified citrus pectin or cholestyramine.

A flare is the natural progression of the disease. Lyme waxes and wanes, goes from part to part and just is so hard to identify.
____________

Good Article

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1338
   Posted 8/12/2017 7:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Bartonella is a gram negative bacteria.

more info on Bart:

http://www.gordonmedical.com/unravelling-complex-chronic-illness/bartonella-like-organisms-blo-consideration-signs-and-symptoms/


I would suggest getting tested for it from Igenix, DNA connections or galaxy labs.

mudshark
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 8/12/2017 3:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks all for the info and links. I've just go to get to the LLMD and see what they think is going on. I've got 5 weeks to wait for that.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27934
   Posted 8/12/2017 4:07 PM (GMT -7)   
"Could this be another herx sign suggesting I have Lyme? Could it happen so quickly after taking abx?


My first antibiotic for lyme - doxycycline - had my first herx start on Day 4...in the morning...so basically 3 days of doxy in my system.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1167
   Posted 8/13/2017 8:37 AM (GMT -7)   
my first herx was on amoxicillin (a penicillin) and clarithromycin, i was taking them for h-pylori (which i DON'T have, lol). this freaked me out big time, 3hrs after taking the pills i experienced
- rapid heardbeat (130bps) while sitting in bed
- dizziness
- chest pain, air hunger
- muscle twitches

5 days in, i developed parestesias in feet and pinch and needles all over feet and hands... i was TERRIFIED, never experienced something like this in my life and had no idea why could it be. I vividly remember taking magnesium because i was sure i have severe magnesium deficiency, which could explains muscle twitches and my heart issues. Looking back it looks very funny...

so yes, what u describe is a herx reaction , penicillin is bactericidal for borrelia, not much for bartonella though. I don't recommend treating lyme with homeopathy, not in the first phase, u can maybe try that later if u want to (i personally don't believe homeopathy works, except for very few conditions, especially life threatening conditions like a systemic infection, should be treated seriously with stuff that is known and proven it works).

Do some tests at a lab that is known to have sensitive tests for lyme, find an LLMD and accept treatment based on antibiotics, herbals or essential oils. These are proven in lab tests that kill bacteria, so you know you are not taking placebo.

mudshark
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 8/14/2017 12:07 PM (GMT -7)   
mpost said...
my first herx was on amoxicillin (a penicillin) and clarithromycin, i was taking them for h-pylori (which i DON'T have, lol). this freaked me out big time, 3hrs after taking the pills i experienced
- rapid heardbeat (130bps) while sitting in bed
- dizziness
- chest pain, air hunger
- muscle twitches

5 days in, i developed parestesias in feet and pinch and needles all over feet and hands... i was TERRIFIED, never experienced something like this in my life and had no idea why could it be. I vividly remember taking magnesium because i was sure i have severe magnesium deficiency, which could explains muscle twitches and my heart issues. Looking back it looks very funny...

so yes, what u describe is a herx reaction , penicillin is bactericidal for borrelia, not much for bartonella though. I don't recommend treating lyme with homeopathy, not in the first phase, u can maybe try that later if u want to (i personally don't believe homeopathy works, except for very few conditions, especially life threatening conditions like a systemic infection, should be treated seriously with stuff that is known and proven it works).

Do some tests at a lab that is known to have sensitive tests for lyme, find an LLMD and accept treatment based on antibiotics, herbals or essential oils. These are proven in lab tests that kill bacteria, so you know you are not taking placebo.


I've been taking the homeopathic until I can see an LLMD and see what they think. Despite my homeopathic doctor's past success with me treating things I want an LLMD's opinion, and maybe some more tests.

It has been a couple days since I started a new homeopathic remedy and the penicillin, but whichever one is/was responsible the burning skin sensations in my shins and forearms is gone, and the odd sensations on the soles of my feet has lessened. What has ramped up is muscle pain in one of my outer shins. I wasn't really having that before but it is pretty bad.

Regarding lab tests, I assume these have to be ordered by the LLMD or another doctor. I doubt I could get my regular doctor to have my bloodwork sent to one of the reputable labs. What they don't do in-house they send to the local Quest lab. My Homeopathic doctor gave me a lab slip for the Bart test, but that is to Quest and I'm not sure I want to waste my time having it done there, especially if that would thwart getting my insurance to pay for it at a special lab.

Jinna
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 692
   Posted 8/14/2017 4:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I have beaten lyme (and so has my daughter) basically with homeopathy and energy medicine.

I think homeopathy is one of the main tools I still use against infections, due to nosodes (that can be used without side effects from drugs). But not all homeopaths use nosodes, some are even against them, so...

In my opinion (based on our experience), nosodes, if well used, beat antimicrobial drugs by far.

Without Borrelia nosodes, I would be still fighting lyme disease and lyme relapses. Only nosodes stopped our relapses.

Here in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, many people use homeopathy and homeopathy is much older than our current 'western medicine'.

I don't think I would be well today without homeopathy, herbs, energy testing and acupressure.

Drs treating chronic lyme do not have to use necessarily drugs, and some drs (like the one to whom I owe great part of my health) don't even think drugs are helping much lately...

Herxes can happen very fast after herbs or nosodes.

I'm currently on a special nosode preparation done specially for me by a Russian scientist, and boy, I'm herxing in so many joints... It's just experimental, but I guess, it's getting fungi deep inside my joints.

As for too many blood tests, well, if you have time and money, do them all.

If not, treat them anyway. If you are sure to have Borrelia (lyme), you probably have co-infections such as Bartonella and Babesia (the most common ones).

I would save my money to use for treatment, because even if tests come negative, there are still chances you have an active infection and will need to treat them, anyway.

When I was not sure I had babesia despite having almost all babesia symptoms (low iron, night sweats, hot flushes, extreme fog, extreme fatigue, light sensitivity, etc), a 3 day treatment of Riamet proved I had a protozoan, because all my symptoms vanished in those 3 days, after intense herxes.

Of course, I was not cured, as most symptoms returned a couple of weeks after that.
But at least, I was sure I had to look into anti-protozoan protocols.

Same for Bb: despite negative Westernblots, I had clear improvements with amoxi, and later, when I added Buhner's herbs, I improved certainly well. Even if they did not cure me, I knew I reacted to many anti-borrelial treatments.

Talking about Penicillin, I'm taking it exactly now, in that 'energetic-homeopathic 'mixture (mixed with candida albicans and parapsilosis). I'm taking Penicillium roquefortii , use to balance the intestinal flora.

I started yesterday, no big changes. Now, less than 48 hours after, boy, I'm herxing. And this is just an imprint of nosodes.

Shellazae
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 8/14/2017 5:58 PM (GMT -7)   
How does she tell if she is having a herx or just a side effect of the antibiotic?
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