Why does this occur?

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kml1997
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 9/8/2017 7:50 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone,

So, I've been struggling with Lyme for a little over a year now. Sugar, carbs, and caffeine make my symptoms much much worse, and I never got a clear answer why this is? (especially the caffeine)

Anatomically, why do these things induce panic attacks, brain fog, and head/eye pressure? It never made much sense to me and still doesn't.

If someone could explain this to me, that'd be great, thanks. smile

[Symptoms began Aug. 2016. Diagnosed Jan. 2017. Doxy from Jan. to May. Zithro June to July. Tested negative for co-infections, but LLMD suspected Babesia. Mepron for 2 weeks (w/ Zithro), got bad heart palps, so stopped Mepron. Stopped Zithro shortly after when PVC's continued. Currently back on Zithro]

Post Edited (kml1997) : 9/8/2017 1:46:30 PM (GMT-6)


PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9015
   Posted 9/8/2017 8:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Part of healing from chronic Lyme disease -- or candida -- involves being conscious of one's diet. While there isn't much, if any, studies proving what the ideal diet for chronic Lyme is, the general consensus from Lyme physicians and boots on the ground is that a gluten free, dairy free, and sugar (processed) free diet works best. -- Taken from Tired of Lyme website.

Here is the positive side of which foods will help?

www.tiredoflyme.com/10-foods-you-should-be-eating-if-youre-battling-lyme-disease.html
____________

Good Article

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27355
   Posted 9/8/2017 10:33 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't know why the diet affects some of us so much.

For me, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I went sugar, dairy, gluten free for several months and no difference.

Because sugar is generally not a healthy choice...I do limit it greatly - and most of my sugar is in the form of fruit.
Also don't eat a lot of gluten or dairy. I got into the habit of not eating gluten when my son was diagnosed with Celiac...but he's not longer living at home..so I'm not really strict about it anymore.

Hopefully someone will have an answer as to 'why' it does affect many people with Lyme.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6095
   Posted 9/8/2017 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi kml1997 -

One main problem with sugar and (simple) carbs, which are the carbs that your body quickly process into sugar and uses just like sugar (white flour, white rice, white potatoes)--is simply that sugar is the primary food source for yeast and fungus.

And most people have no idea that they have a yeast/fungal imbalance, which can be the result of a diet heavy in sugars and simple carbs or use of antibiotics, or some other imbalance in your gut flora that can reduce the good bacteria because the good bacteria work hard to keep yeast/fungus in check. And imbalance can be exacerbated by stress or a struggling immune function.

One big clue that you might have y/f overgrowth is if you crave sugary types of foods. Craving them isn't natural--the cravings are created by the y/f demand for more sugar in order to survive. They can completely take over normal brain functions and make you eat sugar even if you're normally not a big fan of it.

If you'd like more info on y/f here is a post in the "New to Lyme?" thread that has a ton of info about common symptoms and treatment.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

Sugar is also a favorite food for the Lyme bacteria and I don't understand this as well. But it could also have something to do with the body's struggle with digesting sugars--not only can this cause the yeast/fungal overgrowth but the y/f can cause damage to the mucosal lining of your GI. However, 70% of your immune function IS the mucosal lining of your GI so this damage can lower immune function, which could be what opportunistic pathogens, like Lyme, can take advantage of to proliferate more than they would with a stronger immune function.

The caffeine MIGHT be unrelated, either coincidental or it could be that your body doesn't metabolize caffeine very well. Or you could be taking the wrong kind of caffeine. According to some DNA testing I did through 23andme, my body does well on caffeine, but NOT green tea, which explains why green tea always makes me feel nausea! I don't drink coffee so I guess I do well on black tea.

However, if I am consistently drinking caffeine, then stop suddenly, I can trigger a series of pretty bad headaches but more caffeine usually helps.

Hope that's helpful. ;)

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

kml1997
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 9/8/2017 12:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for the info, I will have to look into the caffeine problem more because I miss my coffee. sad
Recently, I've had an intense craving for sweets, it's so hard to stop myself from eating them. A few weeks ago, I craved sweets non-stop and I caved... had sugar everyday for about a week, and I ended up crashing once I had a cup of coffee. I felt so sick, like when I first got Lyme (4 hr. panic attack, eye heaviness, head pressure, dizziness). So I will go no where near sugar/caffeine for as long as I can now no matter how badly my body wants it... definitely not worth the risk
Pirouette said...
Hi kml1997 -

One main problem with sugar and (simple) carbs, which are the carbs that your body quickly process into sugar and uses just like sugar (white flour, white rice, white potatoes)--is simply that sugar is the primary food source for yeast and fungus.

And most people have no idea that they have a yeast/fungal imbalance, which can be the result of a diet heavy in sugars and simple carbs or use of antibiotics, or some other imbalance in your gut flora that can reduce the good bacteria because the good bacteria work hard to keep yeast/fungus in check. And imbalance can be exacerbated by stress or a struggling immune function.

One big clue that you might have y/f overgrowth is if you crave sugary types of foods. Craving them isn't natural--the cravings are created by the y/f demand for more sugar in order to survive. They can completely take over normal brain functions and make you eat sugar even if you're normally not a big fan of it.

If you'd like more info on y/f here is a post in the "New to Lyme?" thread that has a ton of info about common symptoms and treatment.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

Sugar is also a favorite food for the Lyme bacteria and I don't understand this as well. But it could also have something to do with the body's struggle with digesting sugars--not only can this cause the yeast/fungal overgrowth but the y/f can cause damage to the mucosal lining of your GI. However, 70% of your immune function IS the mucosal lining of your GI so this damage can lower immune function, which could be what opportunistic pathogens, like Lyme, can take advantage of to proliferate more than they would with a stronger immune function.

The caffeine MIGHT be unrelated, either coincidental or it could be that your body doesn't metabolize caffeine very well. Or you could be taking the wrong kind of caffeine. According to some DNA testing I did through 23andme, my body does well on caffeine, but NOT green tea, which explains why green tea always makes me feel nausea! I don't drink coffee so I guess I do well on black tea.

However, if I am consistently drinking caffeine, then stop suddenly, I can trigger a series of pretty bad headaches but more caffeine usually helps.

Hope that's helpful. ;)

-p

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6095
   Posted 9/8/2017 4:09 PM (GMT -7)   
kml1997 -

Yeah, I bet you somehow started to develop yeast/fungus overgrowth - could be from treatment.

What I would do is talk w/ your MD about a local antifungal. Nystatin is a good one, it stays in the gut so it doesn't have to be digested by the liver/kidneys, which makes it really pretty safe. Assuming it's a fairly common strain of yeast/fungus, the Nystatin should be helpful in reducing the cravings. You won't be able to reduce the y/f load without an antifungal--not eating any sugar is essential in keep it from growing but if you don't also reduce the load of y/f, it will adapt to other foods. It's crazy.

And most natural antifungals aren't really strong enough for most people to reduce loads--most people require antifungal Rx to knock it out quick and dirty. There's a lot more info about this in that thread I linked to.

I also forgot to mention that the primary reason going OFF caffeine can give people headaches is because caffeine is a natural vasoconstrictor so it constricts blood vessels. So when you stop taking it, the blood vessels expand and too much blood can rush through, causing the "pounding". No fun! It's best to ease off caffeine rather than going cold turkey.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

kml1997
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 9/10/2017 9:35 AM (GMT -7)   
I used to take Nystatin actually, I still have some left so I definitely will continue with it!
Pirouette said...
kml1997 -

Yeah, I bet you somehow started to develop yeast/fungus overgrowth - could be from treatment.

What I would do is talk w/ your MD about a local antifungal. Nystatin is a good one, it stays in the gut so it doesn't have to be digested by the liver/kidneys, which makes it really pretty safe. Assuming it's a fairly common strain of yeast/fungus, the Nystatin should be helpful in reducing the cravings. You won't be able to reduce the y/f load without an antifungal--not eating any sugar is essential in keep it from growing but if you don't also reduce the load of y/f, it will adapt to other foods. It's crazy.

And most natural antifungals aren't really strong enough for most people to reduce loads--most people require antifungal Rx to knock it out quick and dirty. There's a lot more info about this in that thread I linked to.

I also forgot to mention that the primary reason going OFF caffeine can give people headaches is because caffeine is a natural vasoconstrictor so it constricts blood vessels. So when you stop taking it, the blood vessels expand and too much blood can rush through, causing the "pounding". No fun! It's best to ease off caffeine rather than going cold turkey.

-p

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 6095
   Posted 9/10/2017 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Good! Hope that helps.

Since you have already developed a yeast/fungal overgrowth, during treatment you will likely need to stay on some form of antifungal while you are treating, specifically if you're treating w/ abx. Once you develop a yeast/fungal overload it seems a given that it will keep coming back while using abx. For some people this is also true even if they're using only herbal antimicrobials. We are disrupting our normal microbiome during treatment.

Some people can get away with natural antifungals but it seems that most people need antifungal Rx like Nystatin. Also, for the tough cases the Nystatin pills are less effective than the PURE powder form (a lot more about that in the thread I linked). The powder can coat your throat and everything and has more of the Nystatin in each dose, while the Nystatin pills often have more filler than Nystatin. And be sure your digestion is good so that it can break down the coating of the pills and release the Nystatin inside. The liquid Nystatin versions often have sugar! So stay clear of those.

Hope this is helpful -

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

kml1997
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 9/10/2017 8:15 PM (GMT -7)   
This helps a lot, thank you for the info!
Pirouette said...
Good! Hope that helps.

Since you have already developed a yeast/fungal overgrowth, during treatment you will likely need to stay on some form of antifungal while you are treating, specifically if you're treating w/ abx. Once you develop a yeast/fungal overload it seems a given that it will keep coming back while using abx. For some people this is also true even if they're using only herbal antimicrobials. We are disrupting our normal microbiome during treatment.

Some people can get away with natural antifungals but it seems that most people need antifungal Rx like Nystatin. Also, for the tough cases the Nystatin pills are less effective than the PURE powder form (a lot more about that in the thread I linked). The powder can coat your throat and everything and has more of the Nystatin in each dose, while the Nystatin pills often have more filler than Nystatin. And be sure your digestion is good so that it can break down the coating of the pills and release the Nystatin inside. The liquid Nystatin versions often have sugar! So stay clear of those.

Hope this is helpful -

-p

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 1995
   Posted 9/11/2017 12:54 AM (GMT -7)   
In many chronic conditions like hepatitis, Crohn's, Ulerative Colitis, migraines, and possibly even Lyme, the patients have antibodies to baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces cerevisiae. It is known that Candida works synergistically with Borrelia and other pathogens to increase disease. It is highly probable that Lyme alters our microbiome and the increase in fungus/yeasts contribute to the negative effects of the disease. This would explain why diet plays such a role for some of us in that any food with baker's yeast would increase our immune response and cause more inflammation.

The body does what it can to lower oxidative stress and one way to do this is to reduce our immune response. The methylation pathway is often down regulated through epigenetic shifts and one shift that helps lower methylation is through the BHMT shunt. BHMT stands for betaine-homocysteine s-methyltransferase. Don't get caught up in the wording, just know that caffeine is a methylxanthine and has multiple methyl groups on its structure. These methyl groups require methyltransferases to be broken down and processed and if you don't have enough of the BHMT proteins, you can have issues with caffeine.

What you eat can lower or raise oxidative stress. If you aren't getting any better, what you are eating is contributing to your problem. Mepron sounds like it worked but the dosage was too high. You may need to start low and gradually work the dosage back up.

kml1997
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 9/11/2017 12:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for this info! This is my first time hearing about this gene. I will talk with my doctor about the mepron when I see him in a couple of weeks
Georgia Hunter said...
In many chronic conditions like hepatitis, Crohn's, Ulerative Colitis, migraines, and possibly even Lyme, the patients have antibodies to baker's yeast which is Saccharomyces cerevisiae. It is known that Candida works synergistically with Borrelia and other pathogens to increase disease. It is highly probable that Lyme alters our microbiome and the increase in fungus/yeasts contribute to the negative effects of the disease. This would explain why diet plays such a role for some of us in that any food with baker's yeast would increase our immune response and cause more inflammation.

The body does what it can to lower oxidative stress and one way to do this is to reduce our immune response. The methylation pathway is often down regulated through epigenetic shifts and one shift that helps lower methylation is through the BHMT shunt. BHMT stands for betaine-homocysteine s-methyltransferase. Don't get caught up in the wording, just know that caffeine is a methylxanthine and has multiple methyl groups on its structure. These methyl groups require methyltransferases to be broken down and processed and if you don't have enough of the BHMT proteins, you can have issues with caffeine.

What you eat can lower or raise oxidative stress. If you aren't getting any better, what you are eating is contributing to your problem. Mepron sounds like it worked but the dosage was too high. You may need to start low and gradually work the dosage back up.

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 133
   Posted 9/13/2017 6:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi,

For me also at a time, the caffeine was giving me bad reactions.

What I was doing is taking a coffee dilued with water, or very light coffee.
Also the expresso contains less cafeine.

Then I lowered the amount of bacteria that I have inside me, and I have less problems with cofee.

Also if you drink it fasted, it is worse than drinking it after a meal.

I think that it interacts somehow with Lyme. Or maybe with something else inside the intestines.
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