Does somebody already had a herx reaction with cranberry powder?

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Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 9/13/2017 6:10 PM (GMT -6)   
All is in the question of the subject of the post.
I'm thinking that cranberry could have an action on Borrelia.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32619
   Posted 9/13/2017 8:11 PM (GMT -6)   
bump
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

The Warrior
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 9/14/2017 8:56 AM (GMT -6)   
How much sugar does it contain?
First symptoms in 2014.

Diagnosed in May 2017:
•Borrelia Burgdorferi
•Bartonella
•Babesia
(DNAConnexions PCR)

Other Conditions:
•MTHFR mutation

Started treatment in May 2017:
•Dr. Zhang's herbal protocol

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 9/14/2017 12:22 PM (GMT -6)   

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 9/16/2017 9:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe the cranberry could have an action on the borrelia biofilms. But I don't know.

After taking it for like 2/3 weeks with artemisinin, nothing else, I have not seen spirochetes in my blood with the microscope. (and there would supposed to be a high number of it)

And it gives me big reactions. A friend tested it, but he has only mild reactions to it, by taking two capsules.
For me at even 1/4 of cap I have herxs.

mpost
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Date Joined Feb 2015
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   Posted 9/16/2017 11:12 PM (GMT -6)   
please be advised symptoms can get worse or get better with or without you taking anything special. because the disease cycle is very long, it can take weeks in between flares. During those weeks, you may do and take all sorts of things: supplements, herbs, change diet, exercise. Inevitably your symptoms will change, then you will say it's because what you took the last week. In 90% of cases this is false...

improvements can be seen over months of treatment, not weeks...

Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 9/17/2017 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
please be advised symptoms can get worse or get better with or without you taking anything special. because the disease cycle is very long, it can take weeks in between flares. During those weeks, you may do and take all sorts of things: supplements, herbs, change diet, exercise. Inevitably your symptoms will change, then you will say it's because what you took the last week. In 90% of cases this is false...

improvements can be seen over months of treatment, not weeks...


I'm talking about herxs here...

Jinna
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   Posted 9/18/2017 7:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Well, just my opinion.

Cranberry is not very sweat, so probably not a problem with yeast.

It is though very antioxidant.
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/cranberries-year-round-superfood

If you ever took something called Megahydrate, a super antioxidant, you'll know that strong antioxidants may feel like herxes.

I do think there is an indirect link: you take potent antioxidants and your immune system may kick in, killing critters. Then you herx.

Antioxidants ALSO help cleaning the body: like Vit C in high amounts can help cleaning some heavy metals. The moment you clean those heavy metals, they go loose and you feel like a herx, a poisoning.

If not heavy metals, any other toxin: when they move, you may feel uneasy.

Note that cranberry has high Vit C and manganese, 2 substances known to help the body to detoxify (even heavy metals).

Manganese is in fact used in the KPU / HPU protocol as a supplement helping the body to detoxify.

Another hint on your reaction: anti inflammatory properties of cranberry.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=145

If it lowers inflammation, Bb and other pathogens are not happy. They lose food, and may die? (just a guess).

As cranberries are used against UTIs or for prevention, well they may have anti-microbial properties. If not DIRECTLY, indirectly. I know some women that swear by cranberries (against recurrent UTIs).

So why not having herxes from that too?

the more you pay attention to how your body reacts on supplements, minerals, antioxidants, chelators, you start to understand that there are INDIRECT, but potent, mechanisms of the body that lead to killing of microbes.

Cleansing and antioxidants are 2 potent ways to deal with chronic infection, in my opinion.
Much more than simple antimicrobials.

Maybe your cranberry powder is doing that?

Antimicrobials act better with acute infections, but I do feel chronic infections react better with something that helps the body overall, such as good nutrition, potent antioxidants, mineral supplementation, enzymes etc.

Post Edited (Jinna) : 9/18/2017 7:15:59 AM (GMT-6)


Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 9/21/2017 12:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for your message, it's very interesting!

For the chelators giving strong reactions, I know that. Before, I wasn't able to take alpha lipoïc acid. It gave me crazy reactions. I'm intoxicated with heavy metals.
And a physician made me bgin with another product, then alpha lipoic acid in low doses, and now I can take it.

For the cranberry, I don't think that I feel a heavy metal removal. Because I also see with my microscope, that I have almost no bacterai in my blood (But I should check again)

Maybe your hypothesis on an indirect action is true. We forget too often that the immune system is more powerfull than drugs.
Maybe one of the compounds inhibates one immun system lowering mecanism of the borrelia.

Also I have one friend that tried. But it dont give him herxs like me. He told me that he had herxs at 2 capsules. I'm still at 1/2, I can take 1 but it's too powerfull.

Maybe it would be interesting that other people tries? smile (but I know maybe I have something else and it's really working on me because of that. So maybe it will do almost nothing to other people.)

And by the way does your friend that take cranberry has Lyme?

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 12/19/2017 9:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I've found the answer since then.

In fact it's the PACs (proanthocyanidins) that are in the cranberry that are very active on biofilms.
I have found a study on the effect of these pacs on pseudomonas aeruginosa biofilms that are very close to those of borrelia.
It seems that it acts a little bit like the lactoferrine, by chelating the iron of the biofilms.
The pacs are active at crazy low concentration, like 1PPM (1mcg/mL)!
So it explains why it so powerfull if someone is loaded with biofilms.

From what I've seen from some sellers of cranberry, the PACs are around 1,5% or more in cranberry powder.

Here is the study :
/bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6882-14-499

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
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   Posted 12/20/2017 9:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Healrom, you mentioned twice that you see no spirochetes in your blood. So do you believe that you don't have lyme any more?

Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 12/20/2017 9:44 AM (GMT -6)   
No, you can not see spirochetes in the blood while taking an effective treatment, but there are many places in the body where they can be. Like biofilms, nerves, brain, etc...

So the important thing is to check how much time they take to come back when you stop the treatment. And in how much quantity. The longer they take and the fewer they are, the best it is.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
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   Posted 12/20/2017 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm in remission and have been for over a year. The microscopic thing intrigues me.

Having had lyme, I won't give blood or be an organ donor any longer. I don't want to give an already ailing person one little spirochete.

As for the cranberry. I have never had a herx with it. My husband drinks it quite often and he has never herxed.

I think Buhner recommends a chaser of cranberry juice after taking tinctures. I just did water.

I do know that lyme can surely come and go from here to there. No reasoning with lyme, that's for sure.

Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 12/20/2017 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok, that's a good idea to don't give blood or organs. It's the same for me, I don't want to give anything, too much dangerous.

For the cranberry, I think that it's more powerfull in capsules or in tablets than the juice. Maybe there wasn't enough PAC inside it too feel a herx? Or to be effective at all?

It is possible also to buy concentrated cranberry with standardized PAC content. I have seen some with 36mg in each capsule.

The ones that I'm taking now are of the brand now foods, and are not standardized. Maybe they contain around 10mg/ capsule.

ps : do you know the brand of your juice?

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 12/20/2017 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
We drink Lakewood organic pure cranberry juice. Non-GMO and no sugar added or fake sugars. No preservatives either.

Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 12/20/2017 12:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok, it seems to be a high quality brand.

From what I have found, 300mL of juice would be the equivalent of 36mg PACs (300mL = 10.14fl oz)

So it should have had an effect, even if you drink less than that. How much do you drink daily?

But, also everybody doesn't feel the herxs, or not as powerfull according to the different people.


Also with the microscope I can even see a form change in Borrelia by taking cranberry. Because I have took it alone to see what it did. It was a form that I had never seen before.

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 158
   Posted 12/20/2017 12:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I have made some videos about this kind of "mutated" form.

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhi7nv3foY

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFSkDKR3YoA
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