May have found a way to disable and treat Lyme neurotoxin - Part 2

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Pirouette
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   Posted 10/22/2017 10:05 AM (GMT -7)   
This is the continuation of this thread:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3928795&p=4

-p

Post Edited By Moderator (Girlie) : 10/22/2017 11:33:52 AM (GMT-6)


Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/22/2017 11:51 AM (GMT -7)   
success here with IV choline, which seems to align with the basic theory of this thread

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3561970&p=1

Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/22/2017 12:24 PM (GMT -7)   
this indicates Alpha-GPC is the perfect fit for a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor protocol (ie HPZ + EGCG)

Somebody said...
Alpha-GPC has also been found to potentiate the effects of the acetylcholinesterase inhibitor rivastigmine in a dose-dependent manner whereas choline per se was ineffective,[16] and this interaction has resulted in synergistic neuroprotection elsewhere in rats[17] and interim results so far support the idea of pairing Alpha-GPC with an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor for the treatment of Alzheimer's.

Alpha-GPC appears to be the best currently known cholinergic in increasing plasma and brain choline levels, as it has better transportation into the brain than does choline (somewhat similar to CDP-choline) but since it is a greater percentage choline by weight (relative to CDP-choline) taking X dose of either drug gives more choline when using Alpha-GPC


so I would recommend taking the Alpha-GPC form of choline with this protocol

Post Edited (Lapis_29) : 10/22/2017 1:27:18 PM (GMT-6)


dacarte3
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   Posted 10/22/2017 1:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I didn't find this particular study but my other research lead me to this particular pairing.

Lapis, when it comes to this particular issue I think our protocol is solid just from a logical standpoint but will this translate in Neuro Lyme, assuming the patient is also tackling Lyme from other fronts as well like abx, herbs, other vital supps etc.

And will it improve overall nerve health not just cognitive abilities.

Boy I really hope so.

Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/23/2017 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
ok, 3 days into the protocol

HPZ + EGCG + Alph GPC

Uridine + DHA

so far I can say for sure it helps my mood, helps lift brain fog and alleviate depression symptoms. I feel very confident in saying all that

muscle aches and nerve problems? hard say, since in the autumn the rotting leaves drive my mold allergy to the moon which make my nerve and muscle problems much worse.

right now i will definitely continue however, since its doing good things.

Post Edited (Lapis_29) : 10/23/2017 12:59:06 PM (GMT-6)


dacarte3
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   Posted 10/23/2017 10:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Immediate effects are helping with mood/anxiety and it's a mild to moderate sedative. It could help lymies with sleep issues.

I would say its way too early to tell but the fact that you are experiencing the same immediate effects kind of let us know it's probably real and not placebo. Especially considering I wasn't even expecting it to do that for a placebo effect to even occur.

Nerve health. Nerves take a while to grow and heal. So while this protocol maybe successfully creating a bodily environment that will stimulate this health, to actually notice it would definitely take much longer.

My hope is this protocol will at the very least create an environment where it can stop things from getting worse. A halt in symptoms may be a great first step.

This is what I'm looking out for, since actual nerve healing takes a while.

Edit: and for those that are keeping up with this thread, Lapis and I are taking the same protocol except he is taking uridine, while I'm not. However I am taking Pinella, which already helped with brain fog as a stand alone herb.

The protocol without uridine should be as effective, but uridine is another compound that promotes more of what HPZ+CHL+EGCG+DHA (fish oil) is already doing. So if you want to go all out add uridine.

However, I don't because I'm too chicken since there's some bad side effects claims out there regarding uridine (may or may not be accurate but I'm too scared).

Post Edited (dacarte3) : 10/23/2017 11:51:43 AM (GMT-6)


Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/23/2017 12:00 PM (GMT -7)   
dacarte3 said...


Nerve health. Nerves take a while to grow and heal. So while this protocol maybe successfully creating a bodily environment that will stimulate this health, to actually notice it would definitely take much longer.
.


yes, good points

Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/23/2017 12:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Update/summary on thread so far

the lyme neurotoxin, bbtox1, likely depresses acetylcholine levels.

acetylcholine Acetylcholine is the most abundant neurotransmitter in the brain. Along with dopamine, it’s one of the two main excitatory neurotransmitters. It has a major impact on learning and memory. Low Acetylcholine levels could cause nerve and muscle problems.

It’s needed to turn short-term memories into long-term ones.

to counteract this we are designing a protcol that inhibits acetylcholinesterase, the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine.

studies show Huperzine A + EGCG does exactly that.

alpha-GPC is the best choline supplement to pair with acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. Uridine helps the body utilize choline, and DHA is a good all around nerve supplement

so the basic protocol is

Hupezine A + EGCG + Alpha GPC

Uridine + DHA optional


see the previous thread for studies and references




Pirouette said...
This is the continuation of this thread:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3928795&p=4

-p

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/23/2017 1:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Lapis_29 said...


alpha-GPC is the best choline supplement to pair with acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. Ur

-p


Also important to point out for those that see this thread and not the other one is choline helps make more ACE.

So you help stop the destruction of ACE but then also provide the building blocks for the body to create more.

Also in the first thread it helps with cognitive abilities but ACE is also responsible for the communication between muscle nerves and the brain. No ACE means loss of muscle strength, mass, and muscle usage.

So the lymies that are experiencing the weakness, loss, numbness, and lack of motor skills, the reason could very well be lack of ACE due to the Neuro toxin Lyme produces that reduces these numbers.

This protocol is to manage symptoms only, not to permanently resolve it. The only way to do that is to eliminate the variables that are creating the toxins in the first place and that is Lyme and co.

So a comprehensive Lyme treatment is still needed in conjunction with this protocol.

But we hope that this very particular add on to treatment can finally help lymies with Alzheimer like and ALS like symptoms to get their functionality, lives, and dignity back as they contine to battle lyme. Since the main stream medical community doesn't know squat about Lyme (even a lot of llmds) and we're all we got.

Georgia Hunter
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   Posted 10/24/2017 12:26 AM (GMT -7)   
And ECGC has anti-protozoal properties.

Lapis_29
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   Posted 10/24/2017 8:53 AM (GMT -7)   
dacarte3 said...


So a comprehensive Lyme treatment is still needed in conjunction with this protocol.

.


exactly, this protocol doesnt kill any borrelia, its only to treat and heal neurotoxic impacts of lyme

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/25/2017 5:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Will post a week one update on Friday.

Lapis, has it been one week for you?
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Lapis_29
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Total Posts : 421
   Posted 10/25/2017 6:14 PM (GMT -7)   
5 days so far and I do like it

bumps up my mood for certain. I am going to keep at it.

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/26/2017 4:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello Lapis,

Did any of these studies suggest our protocol can help with Autoimmune Encephalitis? I feel like I read it some where.

I'm sure a huge portion of neuro lymies have an element of Autoimmune Encephalitis rather than simply encephalitis.

ChickenArise
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   Posted 10/26/2017 8:52 PM (GMT -7)   
How long are you planning to do the stacks? Are you guys planning on cycling off?

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT (for now): www.tinyurl.com/CHIARISE
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
"Give me the material that I can to apply critical thinking or blind faith to. I'm all about the possibilities!"
“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are"

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/27/2017 5:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Good question, I read a lot about people cycling. I need to refresh my memory on that, I almost forgot about it.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

ChickenArise
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   Posted 10/27/2017 8:10 AM (GMT -7)   
There are a good amount of people on You Tube that talk about the nootropics you are using. The majority of them say these are things you want to cycle rather than remain on to prevent the negative effects. 5 days use is already a bit much as per what these people recommend.

Here is one of them: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7J168KE1v4YBr8H2noeMbQ/videos

He has some videos covering Huperzine A and says you don't want to just stay on it.

Something to consider as we have a difficult enough time distinguishing what symptoms are from Lyme.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT (for now): www.tinyurl.com/CHIARISE
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
"Give me the material that I can to apply critical thinking or blind faith to. I'm all about the possibilities!"
“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are"

Lapis_29
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 421
   Posted 10/27/2017 8:19 AM (GMT -7)   
dacarte3 said...
Hello Lapis,

Did any of these studies suggest our protocol can help with Autoimmune Encephalitis? I feel like I read it some where.

I'm sure a huge portion of neuro lymies have an element of Autoimmune Encephalitis rather than simply encephalitis.


good questgion, dont know

although I think DMSO would help with that since its such a powerful anti infammatory

Lapis_29
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Date Joined Sep 2017
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   Posted 10/27/2017 8:22 AM (GMT -7)   
ChickenArise said...
There are a good amount of people on You Tube that talk about the nootropics you are using. The majority of them say these are things you want to cycle rather than remain on to prevent the negative effects. 5 days use is already a bit much as per what these people recommend.

Here is one of them: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7J168KE1v4YBr8H2noeMbQ/videos

He has some videos covering Huperzine A and says you don't want to just stay on it.

Something to consider as we have a difficult enough time distinguishing what symptoms are from Lyme.


right but those ppl dont have a deadly illness that depresses their acetylcholine levels

I really dont have the answer, just saying if you have lyme you are playing by different rules.

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/27/2017 8:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Lapis_29 said...
ChickenArise said...
There are a good amount of people on You Tube that talk about the nootropics you are using. The majority of them say these are things you want to cycle rather than remain on to prevent the negative effects. 5 days use is already a bit much as per what these people recommend.

Here is one of them: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7J168KE1v4YBr8H2noeMbQ/videos

He has some videos covering Huperzine A and says you don't want to just stay on it.

Something to consider as we have a difficult enough time distinguishing what symptoms are from Lyme.


right but those ppl dont have a deadly illness that depresses their acetylcholine levels

I really dont have the answer, just saying if you have lyme you are playing by different rules.


You make a good point. Those people don't have ACE constantly being depleted.

Most people use these supps for a boost in cognitive performance or their muscle growth from work outs

There's a lot of supps that we take a higher dosage of than the average person because we have Lyme as herbalist recommend.

I'll probably still cycle but 5-7 days I don't believe is long enough for someone with Lyme.

Every two weeks I'll probably take a week off. As symptoms improve I'll take less of it. And hopefully one day Neuro symptom free where I can completely stop.

Because unlike other maintenance herbs and supps I will not be taking this for the rest of my life. At least not consistently. Only when flares may happen.

ChickenArise
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   Posted 10/27/2017 8:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Lapis_29 said...

right but those ppl dont have a deadly illness that depresses their acetylcholine levels

I really dont have the answer, just saying if you have lyme you are playing by different rules.


I hear what youre saying.

This gent claimed to have Lyme and used Noortropics to help.

/www.youtube.com/user/stevecronin

Maybe he can provide some insight from experience. Just a thought. Either way keep us updated.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT (for now): www.tinyurl.com/CHIARISE
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
"Give me the material that I can to apply critical thinking or blind faith to. I'm all about the possibilities!"
“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are"

NotQuiteAntonio
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   Posted 10/27/2017 11:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Science is cool, man.

dacarte3
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   Posted 10/27/2017 4:04 PM (GMT -7)   
One Week Review:

Immediate effects/what it significantly helped:

1. mood: Detoxing the brain and the development of more ACE most likely has an overall affect on "Good mood" chemicals such as serotonin and dopamine. Not only was the subject in overall better mood but can feel more happy emotions (dopamine). One may feel the effects of this within 1 or 2 hours of taking it. It's really no surprise as a healthy CNS allows a more healthy function of these neurological processes. Many things can aid in this, not just this CNS protocol but the fact that this particular protocol does help is worth noting.

2. Sedative effects/anti-anxiety: at first this protocol has noticeable sedative effects. However, once the body is use to it this effect subsides. The anti-anxiety effects most likely goes back to what was explained in #1.

3. Muscle weakness: this symptom is a very particular and noticeable symptom. It's not the same as just being weaker or de-conditioned from being ill with lyme. It's the muscle weakness that make very simple things difficult, like simply getting up without muscles trembling, picking up a pot of water, wonky wobbly legs, etc. With that clarified, it eliminated this symptom. Would this symptom have gone away anyways and it was merely a coincidence? Possible but not probable.

Moderate effects (for now):

1. Off balance/drunk feeling when moving/walking: It has improved this symptom. It's not as severe and doesn't last nearly as long. At worse this feeling was all day long. Now it's spotty for about 10 minutes randomly throughout the day. Really helps but can't say it eliminated it (yet).

2 . Head fog: this protocol does aid in head fog. However it is not permanent but its relief. The subject was already taking Pinella which already helped but adding this protocol made the "relief" last longer. Head fog that would normally occur in the afternoon from 2pm-5pm due to long and busy work day stayed away until 7-8pm and was much shorter lived. And it's important to note it was a complete clearing of head fog, not simply partial. The subject almost forgot what a complete clear head felt like and it was an awesome state to be in (temporarily). Once again not a permanent remedy as the cause of the head fog, lyme and co, is the main culprit however it does provide longer head fog relief.

Little to no improvement:

1. Muscle wasting: Hard to tell. This either stopped or greatly slowed (where I can't really tell). This symptoms is very hard to pin point if this protocol actually was the reason. I will have to see actual muscle development improvement to be able to give this protocol that credit. This symptom greatly slowing or halting, for now, I must give more credit to the overall lyme treatment.

2. Peripheral Neuropathy (numbness, tingling): this still occurs at the same intensity and just as often

3. Muscle twitching: many things can cause this when it comes to lyme for it's not only neurological. This symptoms is a symptom the subject has had since the very beginning of lyme and has never went away. Even when the subject was very near symptom free, this was one of two symptoms that still happen every so often. So for the subject in particular this symptom is most likely related to something else. Whether it's lyme and co simply breaking down tissue or being magnesium deficient because of lyme.

Only one week. The fact that it it showed this much improvement in certain areas is pretty good for 7 days. Hopefully more time will start to move all these symptoms up to the first category.

Post Edited (dacarte3) : 10/27/2017 5:16:54 PM (GMT-6)


dacarte3
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   Posted 10/27/2017 4:29 PM (GMT -7)   
I will provide my next update at the one month mark, unless significant improvement/break throughs are made prior to the one month mark.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

dacarte3
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Date Joined Feb 2016
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   Posted 10/29/2017 11:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Lapis, what's your status on this protocol?
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present
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