resolution of autoimmune condition after recovery from Lyme and co.

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Lwnsmld13
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   Posted 11/10/2017 11:12 AM (GMT -7)   
My question is for those of you that have reached remission or feel your Lyme and co has been recovered.

Do you feel that after recovery your autoimmune conditions have improved?

astroman
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   Posted 11/10/2017 11:32 AM (GMT -7)   
So your asking about actual proven existence autoimmune conditions. (?)

I mention that because this is starting to become a buzz word, or has been for a while now, with people and even Drs ASSUMING they have "some kind" of autoimmune. Without antibodies its partial guessing., so not all these assumptions are correct.

After ABX I went on (Jan 2017) a very clean paleo diet - with autoimmune in mind. This is a big deal. My gut felt better and body followed.

My answer is 50/50.

One of my Hashi antibodies elevated for 20 years normalized last two times early this year. The other hashi antibody did not change. And I still just increased (as usual/annual) my thyroid med again. My ANA has not re-appeared. My vitaligio skin condition (no antibody known for it yet) is still getting worse.

Once autoimmune starts, even after removing the cause does not always reverse despite some opinions I've read online.

Despite that, I do feel better and stronger in the gym every month. So is that from less atuoimmune symptoms or from healing lyme damage - no way to know. I am not one to assume. I like proof with data.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/10/2017 11:35:41 AM (GMT-7)


Lwnsmld13
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Date Joined Oct 2017
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   Posted 11/10/2017 12:44 PM (GMT -7)   
I guess to answer your question - I'm specifically curious if Hashimoto's resolved after healing Lyme.

Good point that not all autoimmune diseases have antibody testing available.

Thank you for answering!
Lyme, Ehrlichia, likely Babesia

bit as a child around 1987-90
sx noticed around 97 - looking back though much earlier
misdiagnosed for years until I stopped going to MDs
diagnosed by ND/chiropractor JUNE 2017
Started natural treatments
found LLMD started Buhner herbs Oct. 2017

bluelyme
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   Posted 11/10/2017 1:34 PM (GMT -7)   
I am a firm believer in remove the offending pathogen and the body can heal somewhat and slowly depending on damage done . My thyroid ,adrenal and vascultis has much improved since gong after myco/bart heavy duty tx 2yrs

Lwnsmld13
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Date Joined Oct 2017
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   Posted 11/10/2017 1:50 PM (GMT -7)   
bluelyme said...
I am a firm believer in remove the offending pathogen and the body can heal somewhat and slowly depending on damage done . My thyroid ,adrenal and vascultis has much improved since gong after myco/bart heavy duty tx 2yrs


Thank you Bluelyme.

This gives me hope! I'm glad you are doing better!

astroman
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   Posted 11/10/2017 1:57 PM (GMT -7)   
bluelyme said...
I am a firm believer in remove the offending pathogen and the body can heal somewhat and slowly depending on damage done . My thyroid ,adrenal and vascultis has much improved since gong after myco/bart heavy duty tx 2yrs


Blue- Did you happen to record your hashimoto thyroid antibody level before lyme treatment and during? (If your not in "remission" yet then your not at the re-test time yet..?)

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/10/2017 2:09:13 PM (GMT-7)


astroman
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   Posted 11/10/2017 2:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Lwnsmld13- ["Good point that not all autoimmune diseases have antibody testing available.]"

- Yes, unless there are antibodies, or visual physical changes, saying "autoimmune" is for the most part guessing.

Long term elevated antibodies actually destroy tissue. In my case my thyroid is also physically damaged from antibodies per ultra sound - anyone can see this on the image. Some people who have not experienced this are unaware of what can happen.

There is a limit to tissue regrowth in all living things. Such as many broken bones can heal without modern medical intervention..., but crooked with out re-setting in a cast. Healing and healing optimaly are not the same in terms of tissue. Scared skin still does its job. Scared organs...not so much, those are the facts.

So will my frag-led thyroid change physically to its original form and working condition or just scar over , but hopefully stop declining? Time will tell. If it "regrows" properly that would be amazing. ha ha....

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/10/2017 2:23:21 PM (GMT-7)


mpost
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   Posted 11/10/2017 10:00 PM (GMT -7)   
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....

Lwnsmld13
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Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 11/11/2017 1:34 PM (GMT -7)   
mpost said...
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....


Great point! Great reminder!! thank you

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
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   Posted 11/11/2017 1:57 PM (GMT -7)   
speaking of inflammation how does one actually measure it? i was told some of my symptoms were from inflammation by an LLMD for over a year and it wasn't anything of the sort it ended up being nerves.

so are there markers via tests or some other quantitative mechanism that measure this?

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 11/11/2017 2:13 PM (GMT -7)   
mpost said...
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....


No eggs?



I did the no gluten, no dairy, no sugar and it didn't make any difference - just made meal-planning difficult.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 11/11/2017 3:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Rikky1 said...
speaking of inflammation how does one actually measure it? i was told some of my symptoms were from inflammation by an LLMD for over a year and it wasn't anything of the sort it ended up being nerves.

so are there markers via tests or some other quantitative mechanism that measure this?


Rikky- Your LLMD was just guessing. Inflammation and autoimmune are two overused words in my opinion.

How to measure "inflammation"? There are many ways as the word itself is very vague.

As far as measuring autoimmune inflammation in specific organs or body systems, it is correlated with those specific antibody levels -as mentioned in my first comment here. ANA is whole body, others are more specific areas.

When someone says they have autoimmune inflammation.... or says you do without any known elevated antibodies, that statement is pretty much a guess without the proof. Thats the difference between true glutan sensitive and glutan intolerance (antibodies) , or regular hypothyroid vs Hashimoto (antibodies)- some have antibodies, some dont. The ones that dont are not autoimmune. Its a simple difference.

Then there are actual conditions that modern medicine has called autoimmune for years which they have not yet found antibodies for. - In that case, medicine is "guessing" too. Its far from cut and dry. Personally, I like a combination of symptoms and real measurable data, which is why I re-test antibodies on occasion., proof is a good thing if the tools are available.

A relative almost died this summer from a Dr "assuming" autoimmune inflammation with ZERO PROOF. This relative reached out to me in confusion. He almost died from staph bacteria in the heart after the Dr put him on steroids,, ASSUMING it was going to help a no-existent autoimmune condition. Instead it lowered immunity, spread the Staph, slowed the heart and damaged it. So much for assuming.

astroman
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   Posted 11/11/2017 3:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie said...
mpost said...
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....


No eggs?

I did the no gluten, no dairy, no sugar and it didn't make any difference - just made meal-planning difficult.


Girlie- did you ever have gut issues? Or gut candida, leaky gut? If not , thats why diet does nothing for you. It still might be better in the background though. It seems that many people with measurable autoimmune conditions also have or had gut issues- which regular Drs ignore or claim they are a separate issue of their own (NOT).

Gut health and real autoimmune are related. Makes sense that I'm feeling better the longer I stay on a diet MY body likes. I still eat eggs with no issues, less red meat though and more chicken and fish. My body wants animal protein, I feel worse without it - as long as its not red meat. My body can do without the red variety, but my taste buds still want it.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 11/11/2017 3:23 PM (GMT -7)   
"Thats the difference between true glutan sensitive and glutan intolerance (antibodies)"



Gluten intolerance is Celiac disease.

Gluten intolerance (Celiac disease ) is an autoimmune reaction - and the small intestine is damaged by the gluten intake.

Gluten sensitivity is generally considered less serious - and can't be detected via blood test.


...and then there's gluten allergy...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27355
   Posted 11/11/2017 3:26 PM (GMT -7)   
astroman said...
Girlie said...
mpost said...
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....


No eggs?

I did the no gluten, no dairy, no sugar and it didn't make any difference - just made meal-planning difficult.


Girlie- did you ever have gut issues? Or gut candida, leaky gut? If not , thats why diet does nothing for you. It still might be better in the background though. It seems that many people with measurable autoimmune conditions also have or had gut issues- which regular Drs ignore or claim they are a separate issue of their own (NOT).

Gut health and real autoimmune are related. Makes sense that I'm feeling better the longer I stay on a diet MY body likes. I still eat eggs with no issues, less red meat though and more chicken and fish. My body wants animal protein, I feel worse without it - as long as its not red meat. My body can do without the red variety, but my taste buds still want it.


No gut issues....or Candida (that I know of), or leaky gut.
I actually don't do well on a really low sugar diet. I do eat quite a bit of fruit - apples, pineapple, cantaloupe, strawberries, blueberries...and my blood sugar test is usually between 4.5 and 4.8 which is quite low.
I think that's between 80 and 85 using the U.S. system.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 3849
   Posted 11/11/2017 3:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie said...
astroman said...
Girlie said...
mpost said...
this is why is so important to keep an anti inflamatory diet. no gluten eggs dairy red meat. you dont know what autoantibodies has lyme produced and nobody does. least you can do is minimize things you can minimize....


No eggs?

I did the no gluten, no dairy, no sugar and it didn't make any difference - just made meal-planning difficult.


Girlie- did you ever have gut issues? Or gut candida, leaky gut? If not , thats why diet does nothing for you. It still might be better in the background though. It seems that many people with measurable autoimmune conditions also have or had gut issues- which regular Drs ignore or claim they are a separate issue of their own (NOT).

Gut health and real autoimmune are related. Makes sense that I'm feeling better the longer I stay on a diet MY body likes. I still eat eggs with no issues, less red meat though and more chicken and fish. My body wants animal protein, I feel worse without it - as long as its not red meat. My body can do without the red variety, but my taste buds still want it.


No gut issues....or Candida (that I know of), or leaky gut.
I actually don't do well on a really low sugar diet. I do eat quite a bit of fruit - apples, pineapple, cantaloupe, strawberries, blueberries...and my blood sugar test is usually between 4.5 and 4.8 which is quite low.
I think that's between 80 and 85 using the U.S. system.


Well then, you "hold up" my theory. Just understand, many of us are not like that, consider yourself lucky.

Certain food groups make my gut go downhill, and can feel it in the rest of my body and brain later on with repeated "inflammatory foods" (to me) doses LOL.

Pizza (I loved the taste) is by far the worst offender to me, lots of ammo there, in one convenient application. .now I'm hungry, gotta go find some leaves and bark.......

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/11/2017 3:39:37 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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   Posted 11/11/2017 3:57 PM (GMT -7)   
astroman said...

Well then, you "hold up" my theory. Just understand, many of us are not like that, consider yourself lucky.



Glad I could help...lol. Yes, I guess I am lucky that way..considering Celiac disease is genetic.



I do eat pizza now and then...and usually have the gluten free. I really don't eat much gluten anyway...definitely not daily. I still have to be careful about contamination in my home - because my son visits..and I don't want him to accidentally ingest gluten when he's home.



It's funny - my son hasn't lived here for a few years now...and I still have 'gluten' on my mind every time I cook.
It's embedded in my brain now.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 11/12/2017 12:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Girlie- fullcirclefoods.com/fc_products/entrees-and-pizza/

Above was the only decent g/f pizza I ever tried.....it was good. So it was only half as bad for me! - since milk/cheese is an issue to.

Last year I tried two g/f and fake cheese pizzas - tossed them in the garbage.

That fake stuff isnt paleo, so I dont bother anymore. The closest thing to healthy junk food I can make is g/f wraps or taco shell grilled chicken tex-mex home inventions. Very satisfying! Prob is, I want a beer with that........

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/12/2017 1:25:16 PM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27355
   Posted 11/12/2017 1:14 PM (GMT -7)   
I've had good GF pizzas at restaurants. I've tried a few times to makes GF pizzas - but failed.


i haven't found a fake cheese that I like though.


I couldn't find a list of the ingredients for the GF Pizzas on the website.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
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   Posted 11/13/2017 9:21 AM (GMT -7)   
I tested positive for ANA (speckled), but when I retested some time later, I was negative. I have not been diagnosed with any autoimmune disease at this point.

This isn't exactly what you are asking, but I thought I'd share anyways. One of my kids had some very difficult, life-long diagnosis for him. And ALL of those diagnosis have since been dropped. He has been doing really well the past several months (and much improved over past year+). We "cured the incurable" because those diagnosis are not curable per mainstream medication. I share this as hope!!!
(I should also share that it took several years of trial/error for treatment and healing. It was NOT an easy journey, as he was very very very difficult to treat. But we persisted, and he is well nowadays!)
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Very sick now despite being treated for years, still very bad
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

Post Edited (1000Daisies) : 11/13/2017 9:24:08 AM (GMT-7)


cr3ativegirl
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 11/13/2017 10:14 AM (GMT -7)   
This is a great question. Pre-Lyme, my ANA was 80, but I hear that is low for people with auto-immune disorders. My LLMD told me I had auto-immune issues with the Lyme, Mold, EBV and the LDI shots has helped with that. However, in the last 3 months, my reactions to my LDI shots (same dose) were horrible and my allergies are off the charts. I did some labs on Friday because I asked my doctor to run some tests to see where I was as afar inflammation goes. I think inflammation is a sign of auto-immunity issues. So I'm really interested to see what these labs reveal.
Oct 2015 Dx Lyme, Candida, Mold, Toxic Metals, multiple co-infections
Jan 2016 Minocycline pulse/ Nystatin, Flucanizole
Feb 2016 LDI for Mold, Lyme, EBV, Added Tinidozole, Flucanizole
Sept 2016 Switched to Buhner herbs. @ 90%
January 2017 Plaquenil for Babesia @95%
Feb 2017 Dx Mucor/Mycoplasma in Nervous system.
Oct 2017 Dx Bartonella - @95%

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 11/13/2017 10:50 AM (GMT -7)   
1000Daisies said...
I tested positive for ANA (speckled), but when I retested some time later, I was negative. I have not been diagnosed with any autoimmune disease at this point.

This isn't exactly what you are asking, but I thought I'd share anyways. One of my kids had some very difficult, life-long diagnosis for him. And ALL of those diagnosis have since been dropped. He has been doing really well the past several months (and much improved over past year+). We "cured the incurable" because those diagnosis are not curable per mainstream medication. I share this as hope!!!
(I should also share that it took several years of trial/error for treatment and healing. It was NOT an easy journey, as he was very very very difficult to treat. But we persisted, and he is well nowadays!)


Lucky he has parents like you ......otherwise sick for life possibly. I know someone whos parents took the chance on odd cures (no insc coverage) for a rare childhood cancer...he's now 26 and doing great. Good parents.

Just imagine how many suicides would be prevented if modern medicine would get off their greedy buts and really cure things. People with good life long health have no idea how good they really have it.
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