Worse with treatment.

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OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/3/2017 7:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi guys.

I introduce myself, I am from Spain and I am diagnosed with borrelia, bartonella, babesia and mycoplasma pneumonae. I had another active account, but I can not access it.

I tell you my story.

I am a little lost and with many doubts and fears.

My symptoms started after a very strong stress period. The first symptom was a slight dizziness / vertigo of a few seconds, which caused it to enter panic several times .... After the anxiety, a very soft tinnitus appeared and little by little it increased. Then I got some red spots on the very painful fingers, according to my doctor is a toxic capillaritis. Another symptom that I started to have after the anxiety,was generalized fasciculations, including tongue. At that time scared me a lot, thinking I had ALS, but I have 2 clean electromyography ... After all this and being examined by a lot of specialists, I esa diagnosed of anxiety / depressive label, I decided to send a blood sample to the laboratory arminlab and when I received the results I had a positive in all 4/4/3 plus coinfections ...
At that time I did not have any joint symptoms, although for some time now my right knee has subtly crunched me ....
With those results, I went to a public hospital, recommended by my neurologist and after questioning the Elispot, they made me an elisa and a westernblot, negatives. I only had the positive p41 band. They also gave me a lumbar puncture the puncture was traumatic at the beginning, with subsequent liquid crystal rock (I would like to know, if I could have passed the infection to the marrow). The result of the puncture was negative. Given these results, they decide to give me 100mg doxycycline every twelve hours for two weeks. I do not notice anything, bit I start having pain in the back, ectopic beats, and arrhythmias. The doctors tell me that i have anxiety. I'm still looking for solutions ... I find a llmd and he prescribed me doxycycline 100mg every 12 hours and cefuroxime 500mg twice a day for a month. The pains get worse and when I finish the treatment, I notice improvement without antibiotics. I am 20 days without antibiotics and I improve a little, but then the rneck begins to creak and my shoulder swells. I started treatment with another llmd, from two weeks ago with ceftriaxone 2gr daily, rifampin 600mg, minocycline 200mg and malarone for 8 weeks. Since then I am physically shattered, all my joints creak, I am floating all day in a cloud. I have a cervical magnetic resonance with two protrusions and a slight cervical spondylosis with a decrease in the rm signal in the intravertebrals. Can the antibiotic be destroying the cartilage? I'm trying to find an explanation, why my joints crack with the antibiotic and I can not think of anything ....
I'm afraid of killing myself with antibiotics. I have fasciculations again with the antibiotic and i Don'y know why... I'm afraid,because i think i have a motor neurone problem... I have an igm for evb, and some people link it with als or ms.... I'm confused and i think i'm going to die...

dbwilco
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 12/3/2017 8:58 AM (GMT -7)   
welcome to the board....this has happened to me as well...the idea is that the antibiotics kill the invading "bugs" but then you are left with the toxins and residue in your body...which is why detox is so important...my brain fog greatly increases when im treating, as do the fascilations(sp- twitching) and neck cracking...last time i was infected (got re-infected this summer), i too was scared as the twitching was all over my body, with legs and eyelids the most...but after months they reduced and i was close to 100%...unfortunately somehow got rebit this summer, and am back in the same situation...while i do share with you the fear on antibiotics in regards to gut health and candida (which can cause brain fog), my understanding is that the twitching and cracking are part of the infection and its treatment...best of luck to you

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1341
   Posted 12/3/2017 12:37 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi OriolCarol and welcome to our forum,

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this. It is good you have joined us. Many of us have the symptoms and experience that you describe.

Are you doing any detoxing? Like dbwilco said the ABX kills the bacteria but causes toxins in our bodies due to the die off.

We can have a Herximer reaction (herxing). This would be an increase in symptoms and sometimes severe from taking ABX and/or herbals to treat.

Epsom salt baths in warm water, drinking water with Lemon juice all day are just a few ways to detox.

Our new to Lyme start here thread at the top of the page has useful information about Lyme, testing, detoxing , symptoms and more.


I understand how scary it can be especially when you are searching for answers to all these symptoms.

Others will be along soon to help with questions too.

Hang it here, treating, detoxing and building your immune system will all help.

We are here, your not alone so post whenever you need to.

Take care, Jo
Forum moderator

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/3/2017 2:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you very much to all.
I understand that it must be a reaction of herxheimer, but I am surprised that my joints have never been peeled, and now with the antibiotic i have symptoms that had already disappeared, such as joint pain and arthritis. After the treatment, my skin is dry, and i'm afraid because it's feel like if i was losing my collagen. I have more ataxia than before.... Sorry, but i have to share it with something.

Thank you very much.

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 519
   Posted 12/3/2017 3:23 PM (GMT -7)   
consider this protocol, which some of us have been using and having succes with

/www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3931788

also consider taking a glutathion supplement, really helps with ABX side effects.

Dahlias
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 12/4/2017 3:44 AM (GMT -7)   
I had a massive herx last time I restarted treatment, which included some new and some greatly worsened symptoms. I don't know anything about creaking joints, but brain fog is definitely a common herx reaction for me. I would increase detoxing (a lot, but gradually) and see if your joints improve. Epsom salt baths make the biggest difference for me. Hope you're feeling better soon.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/4/2017 6:48 AM (GMT -7)   
thanks to all.

Today I will start with the detox protocol.

If I had other symptoms such as fasciculations etc ... I would not be so worried, but constantly listening to my joints crunching makes me despair. I have always had a slight pain in the groin, knee, neck, and scapula, but with the first dose of ceftriaxone I feel as if it has been triggered and I am very concerned with the collagen. It is very difficult not to think that the treatment is favoring my pain ...

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 519
   Posted 12/4/2017 8:12 AM (GMT -7)   
OriolCarol said...
thanks to all.

Today I will start with the detox protocol.

If I had other symptoms such as fasciculations etc ... I would not be so worried, but constantly listening to my joints crunching makes me despair. I have always had a slight pain in the groin, knee, neck, and scapula, but with the first dose of ceftriaxone I feel as if it has been triggered and I am very concerned with the collagen. It is very difficult not to think that the treatment is favoring my pain ...


I am having good results using topical DMSO mixed with Hyaluronic Acid and B12. It helps with the nerve and joint issues that you are complaining about. let me know if you want more specifics.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/4/2017 8:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Lapsis.

I'm going to try it. I would like to share with your a picture of my hands. I have an strange mark in my finger and i was thinking it could be ACA (acrodermatitis atrophica) , but i'm not sure and i know it's not common in lyme, but possible

https://m.imgur.com/a/XLx6v

Thank you smile

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27961
   Posted 12/4/2017 9:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Oriol - is it the bit of redness on the knuckle of your index finger you're talking about?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/5/2017 7:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes Girlie, it is.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/5/2017 7:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Now I have a bee-sounding tinnitus and I hear the voices of people as if they were robotos. It's a very strange tinnitus, every day, at the same time it jumps from ear to ear, and it's not an auditory hallucination.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/5/2017 7:36 AM (GMT -7)   
I can not believe that I have lyme, because the elisa test and the western blot are negative, and the only positive serology is a tt elispot.
I attached my symptoms in chronological order.
Neck stiffness
Crunching of the neck.
Pruritus.
Burning in the legs.
Sharp pains all over the body.
Nape pain.
Knee creak
Tinnitus
Vertigo.
Panic attacks.
Floating flies
Pressure in the jaw
Palpitations and ectopic beats.
Pain and inflamation of tmj.
Cervical spondylosis.
Pineal gland quist (i never had it because i have 3 Mri of my brain).
And... I start the treatment and this symptoms make worse... Cervical spondylosis, joint cracking, joint pain, back pain, brain fog, anxiety, muscle pain, and tinnitus... it's the worst sympton... I can hear it in the car and i can't sleepp... I can't imagine to live the rest of my life with this....

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27961
   Posted 12/5/2017 11:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Oriol - the testing for lyme and co-infections is unreliable/inaccurate.

I wouldn't doubt you have it based on negative test results.

Your symptoms do sound like lyme and co's.

The symptoms get worse when you start treatment because the toxins created from the bacteria die-off flood your system. Your body can't keep up with eliminating them.


To help, you should get on a good regimen of detox. Start with a couple methods...and every few days add in another one. You will want to do multiple methods daily.

This is your best chance to have relief while you treat.

If the detoxing alone isn't providing you relief, you might want to try holding off on the antibiotics for a day or two...to help your body catch up with elimination of toxins.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/5/2017 5:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Can be neurotoxins making worse my tinnitus?

I have neurosensorial hearing lose but i don't know if it can be caused by lyme....

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27961
   Posted 12/5/2017 5:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes and yes it can
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1341
   Posted 12/5/2017 5:43 PM (GMT -7)   
When we herx yes the die off of toxins can cause an increase in any symptom.


I am so sorry that you are going through this. Many of us have had negative tests, but we have Lyme and the co infections. The testing is unreliable unfortunately.

Have you tried the Epsom salt bathes, I have found that they really can help. You can also add a few drops of Ginger, it helps to open the pores.

If you are unable to do the bath, you can do foot bathes.

Have you taken any binders like activated charcoal or zeolite? They can help to rid the body of the toxins too, but must be taken two hours away fro any medicine/herbals.

Well Take care and hang in there. I hope you get some relief soon from the Tinnitus and other symptoms.
Sincerely, Jo
Forum moderator

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/6/2017 2:50 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm going to try all this.
In theory, borrelia is a slow-growing spirochete, right? I try to keep looking for an explanation because before I did not crunch any joint, except for the neck, and now with the treatment they start to crush all my body from feets to head. Shouldn't it be progressive in time?
I have been thinking in Candida or another type of fungus to try to explain why joints crush only with abx but i think that if i have it i wouldn't be here writting this because my llmd said me that systemic candida kill you faster than another disease...

I only have this option, to admitt that it's a herx reaction and it's necessary to restore my health.

Thank you smile

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 27961
   Posted 12/6/2017 5:11 PM (GMT -7)   
OriolCarol said...

I have been thinking in Candida or another type of fungus to try to explain why joints crush only with abx but i think that if i have it i wouldn't be here writting this because my llmd said me that systemic candida kill you faster than another disease...




He said that? I've not known anyone who died from systemic candida. But, I do know people who died from other diseases...
(Not saying you can't die from candida...haven't looked into it...but I don't know one person who has)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/7/2017 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes, and I'm not agree with him. How cain i treat lyme and candida together? I'm not sure if i have it, but i don't want to make a mistake.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/9/2017 5:46 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi guys.

I have stopped the antibiotic treatment for a few days ....

Arthritis has been reactivated with the antibiotic ... I have hot knees and elbows, and the crunch sounds worse ...

In the control analysis I have all the blood count triggered ... I am really frustrated because I have the feeling that if I had never known that I had lyme, the bacteria would continue to sleep in my body or at least not attack so strong ... Assuming that outside lyme what I have.

The tinnitus that I hear in the ear is very strange, because it goes jumping from ear to ear and it is heard as if the auditory canal was atrophied ... It is like the sound that is heard in the movie of the war of the worlds, when the aliens come to attack .... It's ridiculous, but it's the only way to describe the sound.

I am afraid that all this damage is irreversible, and what worries me most is that I have not seen a progression towards better, or at least a detachment of the symptoms. I fear that these sequels are permanent forever.

Yesterday I could not sleep all night, I put the volume of the TV to the maximum, the radio, and a heater and I was still listening to the tinnitus ...

Mi llmd, if I can call him that, he knows poor things about lyme, and I can not travel abroad, for economic reasons ... I think I'm in an alley with no way out ...

My vision of my future is dead, I can only imagine how anger is advancing.

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/9/2017 6:06 AM (GMT -7)   
I think i'm going to be crazy....

Arminlabs says yes, you have lyme, and InfectoLab (bca clinic) says no, you don't have lyme and my CD57 is in the right side, 280 now and two months later in 800.

Arminlabs says you have borrelia, bartonella, babesia, myoplasma, EVB, Citomegalovirus and Parvovirus, all IGM, and Infectolabs says you don't have borrelia, bartonella, babesia, and only a positive igg for EVB. Who has the truth? I don't understand nothing....

OriolCarol
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 31
   Posted 12/9/2017 6:28 AM (GMT -7)   
I remember 6 months ago, I had caseum balls in the tonsils, and more than once, I hurt and bleed a little. Maybe I'm imagining too much, but some bacteria could have entered the bloodstream, although I do not know if it would simulate the same lyme symptoms ...

It's funny, but the only thing that has taken away the ceftriaxone are the little balls of caseum, which I have had all my life, with 2 days of treatment.

What's your opinion friends?

Thank you so much.

Post Edited (OriolCarol) : 12/9/2017 6:31:35 AM (GMT-7)


goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1341
   Posted 12/9/2017 6:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Hello OriolCarol,

My heart goes out to you...it is so difficult to suffer through this,but I have seen were people get healed.

Treating can cause increased symptoms from the die off. It is wise to back down at let things settle down.


The audio symptoms can be very rough. I had ear pulsing, audio hallucinations and any loud noise would trigger increase in symptoms. Over time with treatment they had gone away.
I just have a bit of ear thumping returning now from herxing.

I don't know if you have herbals available to you, but I felt that Sida acuta helped with some of the audio issues for me.

I don't remember, but do you treat with an Lyme literate MD or clinic?

Hang in there, Jo

Post Edited (goshawk) : 12/9/2017 6:38:00 AM (GMT-7)


goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1341
   Posted 12/9/2017 6:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Opps ,my mistake I see that you are treating with an lllmd.
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