Am I Dealing with Bartonella

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NicHostetler
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 12/11/2017 12:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Started treatment for Babesia about three weeks ago because I thought most of my sx lined up with that.. off balance feeling, headaches, irregular heart beats, brain fog.. etc.

I have always kind of doubted I had bartonella, or at least thought it wasn't a big issue for me. I do have some emotional swings that I didnt have before Lyme, but I always assumed that it was just frusteration built up from being sick all the time.

Recently I started really noticing that my feet hurt when I get up in the morning for a few minutes and then as I walk for a bit they don't really bother me. I have heard that this is a pretty big Bartonella indicator but I am not sure if my pain is bart pain. It just feels almost like my foot is cramped at the arch or something and needs to stretch out.

Anyway, I will continue to treat babesia for at least three months (probably 4 or 5 if I see improvement). But, could most my remaining sx all be bartonella? If so, is it pretty easy to eradicate with Rifampin?
Very sick starting around 07/2016
Started treatment 03/2017
Bixain & Cefdinir - 3 months - plateaued
Then Biaxin & Minocycline - 3 months - did not improve
Tinidazole - 500MG 2x a day - 2 weeks
Now taking:
Mepron 5mL 2x a day
Zithromax
Nystatin
Cats Claw - 30 drops 2x a day
Gou Teng - 30 drops 2x a day
CSA - 40 drops 2x a day
Japanese Knotweed - 40 drops 2x a day

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2853
   Posted 12/11/2017 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
too early in treatment to make any judgement calls particularly since bart and babs symptoms are more shades of gray than black and white.

when you start clearing babesia (which is 20x bigger than bart or lyme) many folks start to get increasing symptoms from them since the "bully" has left the schoolyard and others can play.

stick to the babesia treatment and make sure you completely eradicate it so it doesn't come back then you can hit the others. this is what Dr. J in DC does and his philosophy is to manage symptoms as best you can while eradicating babesia since its the root cause of many chronic tick borne illnesses.

FYI i'm into month 9 of babesia focused protocol and have 3 more to go before i'm pretty sure it'll be dead and buried.

OptimisTick
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 12/11/2017 12:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Like Rikky said, so many shades of gray! For me, all the symptoms you mentioned is always an indicator my EBV is coming back. I go back on Valtrex and it goes away...I just wish it would stay away! Maybe you could see if you can treat that too and see if there is any improvement?
Bit in the 80's with bullseye rash
Diagnosed Nov 2015
IGeneX:
- IgM (IND): **31 +, **39 IND, **41+++
- IgG (Neg): **31 IND, **39 IND, **41+, 58+
- CD57 = 31

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 12/11/2017 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
It really is such a puzzle. One that’s always changing.
I thought the foot tenderness returned because of Bart.
EBV is a new consideration .....?

Nic ...
have you considered plantar fasciitis ? Your description sounds like it could be a possibility as well.

VCL
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Myco,Ebv,Cmv,MTHFR,Lead.
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/11/2017 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
I have the foot pain in the arch like that. Sometimes it happens during the day too if I've been sitting for a while. LLMD said bart. I'm on rifampin, and it makes my ribs and neck hurt too.

I never considered EBV. Something else to look at.

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 12/11/2017 1:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you so much everyone!

I have been tested for EBV multiple times and it has never come back positive so I am not sure that I have that. I think the tests are pretty accurate for that but I could be wrong..

A couple friends that I know that have been struggling with Lyme all got better after treating bart which is really interesting.. They were all treating for awhile and didn't resolve their final sx until hitting bart with herbs and antibiotics. But neither of them acted like bart was hard to knock out..

Kat - that is exactly how it is for me. If I am sitting for more than an hour and stand up they ache. How long have you been on rifampin?

Rikky - that is the approach I am taking. Knock out babesia first (if I even have it) then move on to the smaller guys. I think I read in Horowitz's book that he thinks babesia should be treated even before Lyme. Sounds like Dr. J probably says the same. Thank you for your input!
Very sick starting around 07/2016
Started treatment 03/2017
Bixain & Cefdinir - 3 months - plateaued
Then Biaxin & Minocycline - 3 months - did not improve
Tinidazole - 500MG 2x a day - 2 weeks
Now taking:
Mepron 5mL 2x a day
Zithromax
Nystatin
Cats Claw - 30 drops 2x a day
Gou Teng - 30 drops 2x a day
CSA - 40 drops 2x a day
Japanese Knotweed - 40 drops 2x a day

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/11/2017 1:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been taking rifampin on and off since late Aug. More off than on. I can stay on it, even pulsing 2-3 weeks and then my stomach starts hurting. I've taken it with doxy, and I've taken it with mino.

I just started a couple days ago with mino again and tried alternating with mino/tini, and was pretty much flattened this week. I also had a nosebleed. So, I'm going to try to stay with mino/rifampin since that's supposed to hit the bart.

I'm doing Buhner's protocol for Bart. My LLMD keeps telling me how diet is so important. He loves Dr Gundry. I'm also dealing with perimenopause and missed periods and hormones going hay way. So lots of challenges.
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 12/11/2017 3:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Kat1000 said...
I've been taking rifampin on and off since late Aug. More off than on. I can stay on it, even pulsing 2-3 weeks and then my stomach starts hurting. I've taken it with doxy, and I've taken it with mino.

I just started a couple days ago with mino again and tried alternating with mino/tini, and was pretty much flattened this week. I also had a nosebleed. So, I'm going to try to stay with mino/rifampin since that's supposed to hit the bart.

I'm doing Buhner's protocol for Bart. My LLMD keeps telling me how diet is so important. He loves Dr Gundry. I'm also dealing with perimenopause and missed periods and hormones going hay way. So lots of challenges.


Have you seen any improvement?

My diet has been awful, I will admit. Holidays are a killer.

I will probably take zithromax with the rifampin when i start because I cannot do mino or bactrum. Bactrum makes me nauseated and mino makes me dizzy... Even after taking for a month. Maybe it was a herx, but I was ready to move on.

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/11/2017 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
NicH - I've had days where I felt mostly normal! So when I get hit hard like I was the last couple of days, it's very discouraging.

I went to a wedding in October, and I felt great the whole time even though flying often triggers some pain or another for me. I was even dancing! I was worried I wouldn't be able to move the next day, but I was fine.

I think the meds caused a bad herx, probably one of the worst I've had. I've always asked the doc to go slow because I'm a single mom that works full-time. So I'm sure one of the things I tried on my own caused the herx. The doc is very pro "build your immune system up and reduce inflammation." He loves Gundry's diet. I did a variation in the spring and think it helped. Doc suggested taking rifampin only. I decided to try combining it based on things I've read. Obviously it stirred things up, but in a way I don't need.

I'm hopeful there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I miss tennis. I miss being fit. I've had glimpses of that light, and I'm ready for it to be more permanent. So ready!
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

Lapis_29
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 835
   Posted 12/11/2017 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
excellent article desribing the various lyme co inf

www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=29861

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 12/11/2017 7:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Re: the sore feet in the morning.

I started wearing socks to bed...and feet are not sore in the morning now (just slightly now and then)
I wonder if it's because bart affects the blood flow...and blood isn't flowing good to the feet while we sleep?

I'm tempted to go without socks and see if the issue comes back.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 12/11/2017 9:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Kat - I used to play tennis as well! I was a college tennis player and just after graduating a couple years ago all this lyme stuff started up. I may have had it the whole time, just in check, who knows. But, I miss tennis sooo much.

I remember watching the summer olympics last year(?) and I hated it because I just couldn't wrap my head around how the people were running and I was in bed and could barely get energy to walk to the shower.

Lapis - Thank you so much! Very helpful.

Girlie - Interesting!! Maybe I will try that tonight! Let me know if you see a change without socks, but you could be onto something!
Very sick starting around 07/2016
Started treatment 03/2017
Bixain & Cefdinir - 3 months - plateaued
Then Biaxin & Minocycline - 3 months - did not improve
Tinidazole - 500MG 2x a day - 2 weeks
Now taking:
Mepron 5mL 2x a day
Zithromax
Nystatin
Cats Claw - 30 drops 2x a day
Gou Teng - 30 drops 2x a day
CSA - 40 drops 2x a day
Japanese Knotweed - 40 drops 2x a day

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4713
   Posted 12/12/2017 3:03 AM (GMT -6)   
bart took me 4 months riffy zith alinia , rife 4 month hh2 and allicin plus 2 yr bvt and 11 month of rife bart is one nasty biaach

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/12/2017 9:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie - my night sweats would be through the roof with socks!

NicH - I sit at my kid's tennis lesson wondering if I'll ever be back out there.

Bluelyme - You went through so much! I don't see how I could do all that and continue getting everything done that I need to. sad
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

cr3ativegirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 723
   Posted 12/12/2017 10:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Feet pain upon rising, yep = Bart (IMHO). I only took Rifampin and DesBios Bartonella Remedy. That worked but I started hitting biofilms hard and it came back. Took Rifampin again plus Buhner protocol. It's gone again. Hopefully for good.
Oct 2015 Dx Lyme, Candida, Mold, Toxic Metals, multiple co-infections
Jan 2016 Minocycline pulse/ Nystatin, Flucanizole
Feb 2016 LDI for Mold, Lyme, EBV, Added Tinidozole, Flucanizole
Sept 2016 Switched to Buhner herbs. @ 90%
January 2017 Plaquenil for Babesia @95%
Feb 2017 Dx Mucor/Mycoplasma in Nervous system.
Oct 2017 Dx Bartonella - @95%

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/12/2017 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
cr3ative girl - how long did you take rifampin and did you pulse? I'm doing the same - rifampin and Buhner.
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

cr3ativegirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 723
   Posted 12/12/2017 11:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I did Rifampin every day for 30 days, no pulse, then switched to Buhner. I'll do that for several months just to be sure! Good luck!!!
Oct 2015 Dx Lyme, Candida, Mold, Toxic Metals, multiple co-infections
Jan 2016 Minocycline pulse/ Nystatin, Flucanizole
Feb 2016 LDI for Mold, Lyme, EBV, Added Tinidozole, Flucanizole
Sept 2016 Switched to Buhner herbs. @ 90%
January 2017 Plaquenil for Babesia @95%
Feb 2017 Dx Mucor/Mycoplasma in Nervous system.
Oct 2017 Dx Bartonella - @95%

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 12/12/2017 11:40 AM (GMT -6)   
I havent gone to bed sock-less yet.

I used to play tennis, too and I probably will not play again.
It's not due to fatigue that I can't play - it's becuz of my nerve issues (thoracic area of back/scapula)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/12/2017 11:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Both tennis and swimming laps started to hurt. Swimming! With tennis, I started getting very sore the following morning. When I stopped, I was sore within a couple of hours of playing. I'm hoping to play again someday. I'll start with swimming first. I tried last summer. Some days I could swim 20 minutes. Other days I could swim 2 laps and was done.
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 12/12/2017 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
I still swim - only in the summer - in the lake - and it doesn't hurt me at all - I usually feel good after the swim.
I don't know if I will run again either - now I just walk .

What a life changer Lyme is - hey?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/12/2017 12:40 PM (GMT -6)   
It sure is a life changer! I saw one of the tennis coaches last weekend, and she asked, again, when I'd be back. I said, again, .... not yet. So she remarks about how good I look. It's a tough disease to understand - for those who have it and those who don't.
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 12/12/2017 3:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Kat1000 said...
It sure is a life changer! I saw one of the tennis coaches last weekend, and she asked, again, when I'd be back. I said, again, .... not yet. So she remarks about how good I look. It's a tough disease to understand - for those who have it and those who don't.


I hate that.. even on my worst days, my coworkers, boss, family, friends will tell me I look good. I'm sure they mean well, but it is unreal how bad we feel on the inside and they will never understand the struggle. Our outward appearance is a misleading mirage that is disguising this nasty disease.

I love family get togethers, but I hate when people ask me about my Lyme. For one, it is too much to explain, biofilms, co-infections blah blah blah but yet it seems necessary to explain because they want to know why I am not better. They need to understand the complexity to understand that treatment can take years. "Oh wow, you're still sick? You look great!" eyes

Oh, and one time at a get together in the summer I JUST got done explaining to my aunt how bad my fatigue and brain fog was and not more than 2 minutes later she asks me if I want to do a 30 mile bike ride... ???

cr3ativegirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 723
   Posted 12/12/2017 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Ladies! I am back to playing 4.0 tennis, no crashing after! There is hope!!!!

My feet get numb at night still. Not sure if its lyme or damage or hormones or the sleep apnea.....not gonna worry about it cuz its not getting worse.
Oct 2015 Dx Lyme, Candida, Mold, Toxic Metals, multiple co-infections
Jan 2016 Minocycline pulse/ Nystatin, Flucanizole
Feb 2016 LDI for Mold, Lyme, EBV, Added Tinidozole, Flucanizole
Sept 2016 Switched to Buhner herbs. @ 90%
January 2017 Plaquenil for Babesia @95%
Feb 2017 Dx Mucor/Mycoplasma in Nervous system.
Oct 2017 Dx Bartonella - @95%

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32521
   Posted 12/12/2017 6:48 PM (GMT -6)   
cr3ativegirl said...
Ladies! I am back to playing 4.0 tennis, no crashing after! There is hope!!!!

My feet get numb at night still. Not sure if its lyme or damage or hormones or the sleep apnea.....not gonna worry about it cuz its not getting worse.


That's great! Sounds like you are a good player (I don't even know what 4.0 tennis is)...I just played for fun - my husband taught me.
My issue isn't with crashing...it's my nerve/muscle issues on my left side.

Hopefully your numb feet will get better over time as the nerves heal further.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Kat1000
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 660
   Posted 12/13/2017 8:36 AM (GMT -6)   
4.0 tennis! You're a rockstar! I was a 3.5. I could maybe have been a 4.0 if I was able to play more. I did a lot of cardio tennis too, which I really miss.

My worse sore spots are all the places tennis hits - upper arms, back of thighs, feet.

Girlie - 5.0 is the highest, so 4.0, especially after lyme, is pretty darn amazing!
pos for MTHTR single mutation; Positive Igenix IgG Jan 2017
March/Apr '17: doxy, Tinizadole. 5/1 samento and exchange mino for doxy. 5/28- switch mino back to doxy, added activated charcoal. 6/9 - stopped antibiox; staying with samento, red root and houttiya and supps. 7/10 added LDN; 8/24 rifampin, samento, red root and supps
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