Symptom or irreparable damage?

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Szabo246
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 483
   Posted 12/14/2017 5:17 AM (GMT -6)   
As Buhner describes it as a car getting hit and having a dent, how do you know if something is a symptom or just damage that was caused and will take some time to heal?

tickbite666
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 12/14/2017 6:18 AM (GMT -6)   
That's the $64k question many of us face when dealing with the last 20% of healing.

I have been pulsing 2 weeks on and 3 - 4 weeks off to help identify some of these issues.
When some sx return or flare on my 4th week off I'm probably still dealing with an infection.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 12/14/2017 11:45 AM (GMT -6)   
tickbite666 said...
That's the $64k question many of us face when dealing with the last 20% of healing.

I have been pulsing 2 weeks on and 3 - 4 weeks off to help identify some of these issues.
When some sx return or flare on my 4th week off I'm probably still dealing with an infection.


tickbite - so those symptoms that flare on 4th week - they are not present while treating...and first few weeks 'off'?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tickbite666
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1599
   Posted 12/14/2017 12:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Mostly the sx that flare on the 4th week are low level nuisance issues like feet and hand neuropathy, runny nose, cough/phlegm in throat, stabbing joint pain, and some brain fog. These are the nagging stuff I still track. I had the crackly neck and some facial muscle twitching return briefly after they had been gone for a good long time.

I have also had several flares of foot neuropathy after three or four days of restarting Rx protocol.

I'm staying on 3 weeks off thru winter in hope to maintain a better balance. Spontaneous bruising and vessel ruptures have also gone dormant for about 8 weeks, but this has occurred before, so knock on wood.

Charlie55
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 12/14/2017 2:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Szabo246 said...
As Buhner describes it as a car getting hit and having a dent, how do you know if something is a symptom or just damage that was caused and will take some time to heal?


When all the rest of your symptoms disappear at the end of treatment and one or two may be lingering. One good example is Celiac Disease.... Scientists recently discovered that this disease can be simply caused by reovirus, a nonharmful virus. A lot of lyme patients become intolerant to gluten, me being one of them.

Now do I have Celiac Disease...? Personally I suspect I do... That's why I'll be staying on a gluten free diet probably for the rest of my life. All the rest of my symptoms are gone, other than fatigue.

There was a MMA fighter named Justin Wren who went on Joe Rogan's YouTube channel. He contracted Malaria in Africa and then came down with Celiac Disease.

And don't kid yourself, there's much more harmful diseases and disorders that could be triggered by Lyme like Parkinsons which could become permanent. For instance Michael J Fox, this man first had Lyme Disease, which most likely triggered the Parkinsons. He most likely didn't seek antibiotic treatment fast enough...

I think it's smart to look up diseases and disorders that are linked to lyme disease and consider that some of them could possibly be permanent.

But for the most part, I think over 80-90% of your symptoms can be reversed. The human body is a remarkable healing machine...

I've found out through my personal experience of 7 years of lyme treatment. There's antibiotics that work effectively within weeks, compared to antibiotics that would normally work in years.

I've made so much progress with antibiotics such as Flagyl, Tindamax, Dapsone, and pyrazinamide. It leads me to suspect, once you kill off the majority of biofilms and persister cells. It gives the body a chance to heal very fast.

This is why lyme patients were jumping out of wheel chairs when lyme literate physicians first discovered Flagyl as an effective antibiotic for borrelia.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 12/14/2017 2:02:14 PM (GMT-7)


PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9728
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Szabo246 said...
As Buhner describes it as a car getting hit and having a dent, how do you know if something is a symptom or just damage that was caused and will take some time to heal?


A symptom may come and go but damage will stay for a longer period of time.

I don't feel like I have any residual damage from lyme. I think with my remission a year and a half ago, I got everything back like it was.

Hubby did also. At one point he could not lift a 10 lb dumbbell. He was just out of complete energy. Now he is back at the gym and doing his regular lifting routines.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
If you have nerve issues - it could be damage, but that doesn't mean it won't heal with time.


my shoulders took a long time...they slowly got better with treatment and time. it wasn't overnight.

It was over a year from when they were at their worse...to when they were at 90% better. Such slow progress for some symptoms.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Szabo246
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 483
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I have a niggling pain in my shoulder, relatively mild I don’t need to take any painkillers for it and can still lift heavy items etc but don’t know if it’s a herx from herbs Or just damage. Would collagen supplants help with things like this?

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9728
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Collagen is great for connective tissue, but not a perfect thing for helping nerves. So it will depend on if this is nerve or ligament pain.

I have a friend that is using essential oil for her nerve pain and is getting some relief. She is using Helichrysum oil. Make sure you use a carrier oil or get some instructions on essential oils if you are unfamiliar with them.

I had what I call mild nerve pain with lyme. I think it was mild compared to what I have read of others on here. I used Young Living essential Pan Away. That one worked for me. I also started eating fish more often for the fish oil.

Just wanted to add that I am not a distributor of essential oils.

Post Edited (PeteZa) : 12/14/2017 4:46:43 PM (GMT-7)


Szabo246
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 483
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, I don’t eat fish but I am going to start taking flaxseed oil supplements and see if that helps. Will also look up the young living product you mentioned and the essential oil.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32507
   Posted 12/14/2017 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
PeteZa - you still have the nerve pain?

or...you had it...and it's resolved?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9728
   Posted 12/14/2017 5:46 PM (GMT -6)   
oops typo

I change it to had instead of have.
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