Should I add cats claw back in?

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Szabo246
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   Posted 12/23/2017 5:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I stopped taking cats claw 4 days ago as I believe it was giving me joint pain, an update... stopped the cats claw, joint pain gone... it could be conincodence...

Not sure what to do now... should I add it back in, am I asking for trouble by not taking it?

I’m also taking andrographis.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 12/23/2017 5:25 PM (GMT -6)   
If it were me - I'd add it back in, but a very small amount. Then wait 3-4 days...if you're not suffering..then increase it a tad...etc.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

PeteZa
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   Posted 12/23/2017 5:27 PM (GMT -6)   
You could try another immune remodulation herb like cordyceps or eletherococcus or ashwagandha.

That was the reason you were attempting to take Cat's Claw was because it is an immune remodulation herb.

Low and slow. Save the Cat's claw and try it much later.

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 505
   Posted 12/23/2017 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you both, i will try ashwaghanda, my dad actually has some powder so I can start that tomorrow until I get the tincture.

PeteZa
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   Posted 12/23/2017 5:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Remember to just do a little and only 1 time a day for the first day.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
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   Posted 12/23/2017 5:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Cat's claw is also antimicrobial - you could be herxing with the joint pain...meaning it is killing the bacteria.

I don't know if cordyceps, ashwagandha, or eleuthercoccus is antibacterial as well.


This is what Stephen Buhner said about the 'minimal' lyme treatment:

"If you were going for the most minimal lyme treatment that would be: knotweed, cat’s claw, eleutherococcus."

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/minimal-lyme-treatment/

You could just give it another try...but lower dose...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 505
   Posted 12/23/2017 6:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes it could have been a herx... does the andrographis kill the bacteria too, no idea if the others do, I will look into that.

Maybe I should try again... just 1 drop at a time...

does the location of pain indicate where the bacteria was?

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 505
   Posted 12/23/2017 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Just realised I’m not taking eleuthercoccus, I didn’t think it was part of the core protocol.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33842
   Posted 12/23/2017 6:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know for sure about the pain indicating where the bacteria is.

I know my herxes would usually aggravate certain symptoms...usually more than one at a time.
But I don't know if the bacteria is actually in that certain area.

The herxing is inflammation caused by the die-off of the bacteria. I think it can be somewhat systemic when that happens.

Yes, one drop per day for several days...since you already know it could be powerful for you.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2293
   Posted 12/23/2017 10:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes. andrographis is a killing herb.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 12/23/2017 10:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Buhner gives many alternatives in his core protocol for the herbs just in case you don't do well with one.

There is always the chance that you don't do well with one and the other will work.

That happened to me on a couple of herbs.

Listening to your body is so important and do not force your body to take something when it does not feel right. With herbs you have so many options.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 12/23/2017 10:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Szabo246 the core protocol on the buhner website is not the same as his core protocol in his book Healing Lyme, 2nd edition.

The one on the website is only 3 herbs with an additional for neuro lyme and suggested collagen support.

The core protocol in his book is more thorough, in my opinion.

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 12/23/2017 10:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Here is what Buhner says:

Dear Stephen,
The core protocol in 2nd edition is quite different than what is presented on your website. As the website protocol is much easier for patients, can you comment on each?


Stephen’s response:
Actually the website is not mine but is something developed by Julie Genser of PlanetThrive.com simply to support the Lyme community. (I have no connection to the similarly named sites on Facebook either.) In general, the root protocol would be very similar to the first edition: knotweed root, cat’s claw, andrographis. I would guesstimate that around 30-40% of people use this reduced protocol with good success. The problem is that as our expertise has grown we have found that with neuroborreliosis (most of the people who seek deeper help from us have neuroborreliosis) that simple protocol, though helpful is simply not enough. As with most things, we have tended to get a bit more complicated over time. Nevertheless, I still recommend using the reduced core protocol to begin with and THEN adding more stuff to deal with the complexities of the broad symptom picture. I think that Green Dragon Botanicals formulation is a good place to begin.
Stephen

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
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   Posted 12/24/2017 6:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks so much for this PeteZa, I will have a look into this and add in what’s missing. Maybe I will be on that 30-40% that have good success with it but then why risk it.

I will give the cats claw one more try too and if I still have no joy with it then will look into the alternatives.

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1996
   Posted 12/24/2017 9:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Szabo,

I have the same problem with cat's claw. I take tiny doses. I'm at 4 drops now. Tried switching to 1/16 tsp of powder and that was worse for me, so I'm back to tincture for now.

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 505
   Posted 12/24/2017 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Reassuring to know I’m not the only one, Did you try any of the alternatives? Does it still help at a low dose?

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1996
   Posted 12/24/2017 8:58 PM (GMT -6)   
I never tried any substitute. I take so much stuff, I have no idea if most of it is helping. I feel like I herx in some way or another most of the time. IHA formula did noticeably help for about two weeks. I wish I really knew. I wonder all the time if I increased the right herbs to full doses if I might actually feel better instead of worse, but there's no way to know without trying it and I'm too chicken. My cytokine-induced inflammation can quickly snowball, so I don't take too many chances.

LymeSick 🌟
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 12/25/2017 1:33 AM (GMT -6)   
around 30-40% of people use this reduced protocol with good success said...


Well that's depressing, that's the protocol I'm on.
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