Brain Recovery -- Only After Stopping Antibiotics?

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JustPiccd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 12/31/2017 8:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I've seen several accounts of people saying their brain symptoms only really resolved either after most other symptoms got better or 6 months or more *after stopping* antibiotics.

Has anyone had a different experience?

Or has anyone had *that* experience and can explain more how that worked for them and if they were doing any specific strategies to get meds or herbs or other across the blood brain barrier?

And does anyone have a reference/link for an LLMD saying something similar? I believe I also read/heard an LLMD say the same thing (that the "brain restore" period often happens after people stop their antibiotics and over the next 6 months -- or more?).

I know nothing is the same for everyone, I'm just really curious why this "brain delay" phenomenon happens, and I suspect it's because the brain just often *can't* restore itself if there are actual spirochetes in brain cells. It would also be nice to get my brain back one of these days!

PeteZa
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Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 12/31/2017 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
bump for more views

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33852
   Posted 12/31/2017 12:00 PM (GMT -6)   
You don't need to stop abx for the brain to heal.
It just needs to be fully treated along with time to recover.

My brain is much better now and I'm still on abx.

I still have some short term memory issues but they are better than before.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

JustPiccd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 12/31/2017 12:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, can I ask how long it took for you to see real improvement in brain function/symptoms? And did you associate the improvement w/ treating any particular bug or just all of them?

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5083
   Posted 12/31/2017 1:07 PM (GMT -6)   
JustPiccd - Depend what you mean by "brain healing". This is not easy to answer. As far as stopping ABX, you are aware of the need to monitor liver function, right?

Keep in mind diifferent people will have different treatment experiences based on the hidden details of their illness and genes.

**If the ability for you brain to function better is what you mean by "brain healing", then yes, the fact you've read about delayed "brain healing" is in fact true for some people for various reasons.**

Not all brain symptom issues are from lyme actually in the brain. Many other parts of the body effect whats going on in the brain. The symptoms you feel can be the same. It can take the body a long time to heal, if you've been sick for a long time.

If by "brain healing", you are referring to possible or actual lesions/scar tissue ect in the brain physically healing, this could take time, as it is actual debris ("bug" poop and dead protein parts ect) from many possible "bugs". I attended a seminar on this about the MS/Lyme similarity, it was an eye opener to say the least.

In treatment you have to remember the body as a whole. There is no coincidence places like the Hansa center and the whole Functional Medicine approach follow this in varying degrees.

Detoxing is widely mentioned in lyme forums, but this occurs in many different ways. There are direct mind/organ connections. Example, the liver and gut are obviously neighbors, but are also connected to and influence the brain as well. Some peoples "toxified bodies" from all the eradication simply do not detox enough to keep up, time is needed. Some people have no issue here, so they might not know this.

Note: Even something as simple as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast if the levels are a little low. At least 50%of Drs leave patients in a hypo state. A hypo persons brain will not work right, its nearly identical to "lyme brain". Some peoples thyroid heal after lyme. Two years after ABX and Diflucan my thyroid is very slowly healing per lab testing. Candida can also take its tole on brain function.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/31/2017 11:59:34 AM (GMT-7)


Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33852
   Posted 12/31/2017 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
JustPiccd said...
Girlie, can I ask how long it took for you to see real improvement in brain function/symptoms? And did you associate the improvement w/ treating any particular bug or just all of them?


It has been a slow progression over the past 3 years. I can say that even a year and a half ago (after a year and a half of treatment) I would get overwhelmed quite easily - even if my husband was just telling me about his day at work. I'd get confused and my brain seemed overloaded.
Now I don't get to that level of overwhelm anymore.
I still do have some short-term memory issues...and a bit of confusion now and then.
Still not good enough to return to my job (even if my other symptoms were gone)

So, it's difficult to say which treatment - I've been on lyme, bart and babs. Now back on bart again.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33852
   Posted 12/31/2017 1:39 PM (GMT -6)   
From Astroman's post:

"Note: Even something as some as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast if the levels are a little low. At least 50%of Drs leave patients in a hypo state. A hypo persons brain will not work right, its nearly identical to "lyme brain". Some peoples thyroid heal after lyme. Two years after ABX and Diflucan my thyroid is very slowly healing per lab testing. Candida can also take its tole on brain function."


I think everyone with lyme should have their thyroid tested - not just TSH, but FT3 and FT4 -as Astroman pointed out - it can cause brain issues.

I was fortunate that mine was fine..although I had thought maybe I was hyperthyroid before I was tested.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5083
   Posted 12/31/2017 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
From Astroman's post:

"Note: Even something as some as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast if the levels are a little low. At least 50%of Drs leave patients in a hypo state. A hypo persons brain will not work right, its nearly identical to "lyme brain". Some peoples thyroid heal after lyme. Two years after ABX and Diflucan my thyroid is very slowly healing per lab testing. Candida can also take its tole on brain function."


I think everyone with lyme should have their thyroid tested - not just TSH, but FT3 and FT4 -as Astroman pointed out - it can cause brain issues.

I was fortunate that mine was fine..although I had thought maybe I was hyperthyroid before I was tested.


Hmm, my brain appears to not be working today. Ha ha...

"...something as some as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast.."

Change to:

" ..something as SIMPLE as thyroid can totally make your brain and nervous system complete toast...."

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33852
   Posted 12/31/2017 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
Girlie said...
From Astroman's post:

"Note: Even something as some as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast if the levels are a little low. At least 50%of Drs leave patients in a hypo state. A hypo persons brain will not work right, its nearly identical to "lyme brain". Some peoples thyroid heal after lyme. Two years after ABX and Diflucan my thyroid is very slowly healing per lab testing. Candida can also take its tole on brain function."


I think everyone with lyme should have their thyroid tested - not just TSH, but FT3 and FT4 -as Astroman pointed out - it can cause brain issues.

I was fortunate that mine was fine..although I had thought maybe I was hyperthyroid before I was tested.


Hmm, my brain appears to not be working today. Ha ha...

"...something as some as thyroid can totally make you brain and nervous system complete toast.."

Change to:

" ..something as SIMPLE as thyroid can totally make your brain and nervous system complete toast...."


LOL - I didn't even notice. So, I guess my brain isn't working either... tongue
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

astroman
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5083
   Posted 12/31/2017 4:14 PM (GMT -6)   
But I have an excuse, (partial excuse), its time for my afternoon thyroid dose LOL!

My supplemented T3 is low around now. They relay need an extended release T3.

It would work since T3 is not bound by proteins, only T4 is. So they would need to be separate pills like most synthetic thyroid med currently is (with one exception).

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/31/2017 2:18:41 PM (GMT-7)


1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2473
   Posted 12/31/2017 4:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I think the brain can heal most definitely, but I think it can be complicated and definitely slow at times - especially considering the extent of the damage.

For Kid#1, he absolutely could not get well and brain could not heal while on abx. His healing for his last of his brain-related symptoms came from doing HBOT and mHBOT. It was a really difficult symptom to resolve for him until he did hbot.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

JustPiccd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 12/31/2017 5:22 PM (GMT -6)   
1000Daisies, that's great HBOT made such a diff in the end -- it makes sense really. I'm curious how many "dives" it took for Kid #1 before his brain started to come back? And were you doing HBOT during antibiotics as well or just after?

Girlie, it must be a huge relief to have that overload symptom gone: that one to me is a real doozy. It also in my opinion makes decision-making impossible, b/c when everything is just flooding in, a decision is way too overwhelming/confusing too.
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