Lab results CD 57

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greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 1/3/2018 11:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok, so i am convinced i have lyme, though i have no inflammation, which makes me actually worse according to this https://lymecryme.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/3201/

I tested my CD 57 and the range is 60 - 360, my result is 287. This tests the immune "strength", so there's no surprise i have a good immune system and don't get colds. What i get however, are vision, hearing problems, brainfog, headaches and other neurological lyme manifestations. I tested IgG band 23 and 58 on labcorp, CDC negative, chronic lyme positive.

I'm posting this here, to reasure myself that the CD 57 is either a bad test for Lyme, since the NK cells can be raised by having different viruses such as HHV-6, CMV and EBV, which i have or that it is in general a false negative test based on the fact that day by day immune NK cells can change, for example, one day they are 287 and the other 125 or something.

Hopefully, you guys will bring some light.

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 12:10 PM (GMT -6)   
anyone?

PeteZa
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   Posted 1/3/2018 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't do a CD-57 test so I cannot comment on that.

A labcorp test showing any bands positive would be enough for me.

You can always get an Igenex test which is more refined.

What does your doctor say?

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 12:35 PM (GMT -6)   
My regular doctor says, no doubt, you are healthy, its all in your head, go home.

However, i feel terrible.

PeteZa
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   Posted 1/3/2018 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay then it is time to find a lyme literate medical doctor.

Sheesh, when will doctors realize that lyme is real?

You can make a new post that says Looking for LLMD in _______ and put your city or state or nearest big town.

Sorry, you are going through this.

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   
No problem, i know a LLMD i can go to soon enough, prob is they don't take insurance, so i'm more on the financial side of the problem rather than finding an LLMD.

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 1/3/2018 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
CD57 is just one lab test that tends to be affected by Lyme. I think most people I've heard of who have active Lyme do have low CD57. You mentioned a couple of positive IGG bands but didn't mention IGM. If you want more tests, then I would recommend Igenex as Peteza said.

One possible explanation is you could have been infected with Lyme in the past and your immune system took care of it, hence the high CD57 and no positive IGM. Your current symptoms could be from an active coinfection or from your body failing to clear borrelia biotoxins, especially if you have a genetic predisposition for biotoxin illnesses (CIRS - see www.survivingmold.com.

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 12:59 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
CD57 is just one lab test that tends to be affected by Lyme. I think most people I've heard of who have active Lyme do have low CD57. You mentioned a couple of positive IGG bands but didn't mention IGM. If you want more tests, then I would recommend Igenex as Peteza said.

One possible explanation is you could have been infected with Lyme in the past and your immune system took care of it, hence the high CD57 and no positive IGM. Your current symptoms could be from an active coinfection or from your body failing to clear borrelia biotoxins, especially if you have a genetic predisposition for biotoxin illnesses (CIRS - see www.survivingmold.com.


I believe i have more IgM bands, i didn't test them right away because of money concerns. I've been suffering with what i call neurological lyme for 10 years, though i might have been infected through a blood transfusion i had a few years prior. So it is not a tick bite (?) since i don't remember having one. I have had vision, hearing, concentration problems, along with muscle twitches, headaches around the eyes and scalp, fatigue for the last 10 years, and i NEVER had any of these before, EVER.

If it really is mold toxins, then how do you treat it? If it again involves heavy doses of money thrown out of a sufferer's pocket, i'm out from this world!

Post Edited (greatguy) : 1/3/2018 11:02:11 AM (GMT-7)


astroman
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   Posted 1/3/2018 1:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I think CD57 is worthwhile, but its for immune strength, not so much lyme diagnosing. There is though that elevated autoimmune antibodies also lower Cd-57.

My CD57 has been constantly low, within 15 numbers.

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Right, and as far as i know, i never had an autoimmune marker out of range. I have lyme and i don't have autoimmune issues, which is the way i feel and the way many other people having lyme feel. If you have MS or Lupus caused by lyme, then it is a different story.

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 1/3/2018 1:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Greatguy,

It's not just mold toxins. It's any biotoxins. Borrelia is believed to produce biotoxins in the body. The genetic susceptibility is on the HLA-DR haplotypes. There's a blood test for that. Treatment is a 12 step process. Clolestyramine is the drug of choice, which most effectively binds to the biotoxins and carries them out of the body through the digestive tract. Binds too well for some (like me) and can cause unbearable worsening of symptoms if you have active Lyme or MARCONS.

greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   
What i read now on other forums goes opposite with what you said earlier. Sure, borrelia and co's produce biotoxins, but isn't it as simple as basic logic, that if i suffer for more than a decade, that if that borrelia was there in my system and now isn't, the biotoxins would resolve by now? Even if you have genetic defficiencies, you have them only in certain situations, like getting lyme. And since we know lyme can't be killed in vitro, there's no way it can be done in vivo. So, in practice, you can have a good immune system and have neurological manifestations of lyme. In theory, you couldn't, but that's why theory should be rechecked everytime you encounter a new case never seen before.

The theory that low CD 57 = chronic infection is flawed.

Post Edited (greatguy) : 1/3/2018 11:58:57 AM (GMT-7)


astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 1/3/2018 3:34 PM (GMT -6)   
"The theory that low CD 57 = chronic infection is flawed."

- Its not that simple. There have been cases where people's lyme infection got better while cd-57 did also.

Now, if they also had some sort of elevated autoimmune antibodies which also got better simultaneously with lyme........that would be noteworthy and possibly explane things.

We dont always here people full stories, as many are so happy to feel better they dont bother putting the puzzle together. These marker tests , and others similar, are not garbage, they are part of the equation. However; Individually, they are not much help.

Note: There are many different autoimmune antibodies, and many conditions that certainly seem to be autoimmune in nature without any associated antibodies scientificaly found yet. Vitaligo is one easy to see example.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/3/2018 1:39:09 PM (GMT-7)


greatguy
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 4:28 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
"The theory that low CD 57 = chronic infection is flawed."

- Its not that simple. There have been cases where people's lyme infection got better while cd-57 did also.

Now, if they also had some sort of elevated autoimmune antibodies which also got better simultaneously with lyme........that would be noteworthy and possibly explane things.

We dont always here people full stories, as many are so happy to feel better they dont bother putting the puzzle together. These marker tests , and others similar, are not garbage, they are part of the equation. However; Individually, they are not much help.

Note: There are many different autoimmune antibodies, and many conditions that certainly seem to be autoimmune in nature without any associated antibodies scientificaly found yet. Vitaligo is one easy to see example.


Yes, there are. And there are people whose symptoms got better and their CD 57 didn't change at all. It is around 50/50, just like the ordinary lyme tests.

All this confirms to me one certain thing: tests are inacceptably unreliable. There are people with igenex postivie and CD 57 of over 200, just like me, and there are people with low CD 57 and no symptoms. That to me is a bad test overall, and i ordered it because some doctors told to me and now i regret it, because ultimately those doctors weren't lyme literate and didn't know what the **** they were doing.

And about autoimmune conditions without testing - yes, again, i agree completely, i'm not a close minded person after figuring out i have lyme after a few tests coming back negative, so i can accept totally that there can be something we don't have any clue about. It's just that i'm frustrated when a doctor told me to order this test, not lyme literate, but whatever, and i saw that half of people on the forum praised it and other half despised it. I guess, it only confirms me how difficult it is to find something wrong when there's wrong, but not by testing results.

mareish
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Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 1/3/2018 5:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know much about cd57 testing, etc, but so far it has been a pretty good indicator for me. I am cdc igm positive.

When I first saw the LLMD, cd57 is one of the tests he ordered. I was SICK with too long a list of symptoms that I'd had for years. At that time the cd57 result was 30. After 3 months of antibiotic treatment, during which time I was in worse shape than prior to treatment, the cd57 result was 12. The last cd57 test I had was almost 3 months ago and the result was 64.

I definitely have seen a correlation in the way I feel and the cd57 #.

I am still quite unwell but much better than prior to antibiotic treatment. Next week I will have another cd57 and am anxious to see the result.
Quest Elisa Lyme positive 2/2017
Igenex Lyme WB igm positive 3/2017 and July '17
Quest Ehrlichia positive 3/2017 neg. July '17
Igenex Bartonella positive 4/2017 neg. July '17
CD57 30 in 4/2017 12 in July '17

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5092
   Posted 1/3/2018 5:29 PM (GMT -6)   
mareish said...
I don't know much about cd57 testing, etc, but so far it has been a pretty good indicator for me. I am cdc igm positive.

When I first saw the LLMD, cd57 is one of the tests he ordered. I was SICK with too long a list of symptoms that I'd had for years. At that time the cd57 result was 30. After 3 months of antibiotic treatment, during which time I was in worse shape than prior to treatment, the cd57 result was 12. The last cd57 test I had was almost 3 months ago and the result was 64.

I definitely have seen a correlation in the way I feel and the cd57 #.

I am still quite unwell but much better than prior to antibiotic treatment. Next week I will have another cd57 and am anxious to see the result.


Do you have any elevated autoimmune antibodies that your know of? (which can also get better with luyme treatment (*sometimes).

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5092
   Posted 1/3/2018 5:32 PM (GMT -6)   
greatguy- in your search for inflammation, did you do c3a and c4a tests at all? Again, these can be influenced by lyme,......and other things like mold and possibly even candida.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again w/with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

mareish
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 1/3/2018 5:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Astroman, I have not had any elevated autoimmune antibodies.

My c4a was highly elevated.
Quest Elisa Lyme positive 2/2017
Igenex Lyme WB igm positive 3/2017 and July '17
Quest Ehrlichia positive 3/2017 neg. July '17
Igenex Bartonella positive 4/2017 neg. July '17
CD57 30 in 4/2017 12 in July '17

greatguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/3/2018 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
greatguy- in your search for inflammation, did you do c3a and c4a tests at all? Again, these can be influenced by lyme,......and other things like mold and possibly even candida.


I have lyme specifig antibody 23, i know it is lyme, the doctors won't even make a connection between c3 and c4, most don't even know about the cd 57 test, so it won't matter too much in the end. I will grab myself some long term abx.
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