Confused about progress/regression with herbs

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WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 1/3/2018 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I started Buhner's protocols in June for bartonella with additional herbs for Lyme. My joint stiffness, muscle soreness/stiffness, and foot pain all but disappeared for weeks. Then I got sick with a cold and sometime after that those symptoms popped back up. At first it was just random, but now daily for over a week.

I'm not sure what happened. The IHA and sida acuta seemed to help those symptoms and other symptoms like scalp pain and weird sensations in the head started, which seemed to be babesia coming out. Then the old joint/muscle stiffness and foot pain came back.

Several things happened over the past month, but whether any of these are responsible for the return of these symptoms, I don't know. I had a period the day before Thanksgiving (after not having one for 5 months), felt bad pretty constantly until I started another period 2 days after Christmas. I'm still having bleeding but no pain and actually feel better for the most part. (The extended bleeding is a 1st for me.). I got a cold 3-4 weeks ago that never went away for which I''ve been taking Augmentin since last Friday. I added kudzu, phellodendron, and bidens about 2 weeks ago.

Has anyone else thought herbs or abx were helping their symptoms, only to have those symptoms return while still treating the same infection?

Purrrsiankitty
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Date Joined Dec 2016
Total Posts : 1780
   Posted 1/3/2018 9:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, been treating for just over a year. Sometime in June for apx 6 weeks, I felt great. I kept up with herbs, changed nothing. Sometime in mid-August, I crashed and burned, and haven't been back up since. I may have overdone it in my "good" period, because I really got a lot done. I knew better, but......
Dx May 2015 Quest pos Elisa/neg WB. Doxy only. Restest Igenix lyme pos, neg CDC, 18 +, **23-25 IND, *30 +, **31+, **34 IND, **41+, **83-93++. Retest12/16 Igen 41+, 83-93+ whole blood-plasmid pos. Retest Lyme/co's. Neg co's. Suspected Bart. 7/15 start 16 mo of doxy, azith, ceftin. Finished 09/16. Cowden start 12/16 and stop April 2017 to deal with yeast & leaky gut.Restart Buhner for BBB.

goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2299
   Posted 1/4/2018 4:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I started treatment in Sept 2016 with AbX, then added in some Buhner herbals. I then went all Herbals in July 2017.

There are many ups and downs with any of these treatments...I have been at 95 % but then back down to 80% then now back to 95%.

I believe there are many factors to why this happens to some of us. So many different things could be going on the influence and then change our status/well being.

For me candida, a cold, ramping up to fast on herbals,overdoing it,stress, not detoxing on a steady basis and the most relevant one...the infections are still there somewhere and keep showing up.

But that is a good thing..I would rather know now and keep the pressure on treating to try and kill all that I can.

I have had two 2 weeks stretches since July with no symptoms. So I believe I'm slowly getting there.

My llmd does have me change things up with the herbals and has me alternating Sida acuta and Andrographis . We also added back in Arginine a month ago,taking it 3 X day (1500 mg each).

It has noticeably helped.

Caution: I understand some cant take this due to active herpes, shingles, EBV I believe.

Bidens is a powerful herbal and did increase my symptoms(herx) when I started on it.

It also sounds like your body could be weakened by the bleeding and/or hormonal changes that may be happening with that.

Hang in there and I hope things turn around for you soon, Jo

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 1/4/2018 7:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Jo.

What symptoms did bidens increase for you?

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2474
   Posted 1/4/2018 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...

Has anyone else thought herbs or abx were helping their symptoms, only to have those symptoms return while still treating the same infection?


YES - ALL THE TIME WITH KID#1. (Did you see my emphasis? LOL)

He was such a roller coaster for healing. So many steps backward. Just when I thought he was on a good stretch, he'd relapse again. ALL THE TIME.

Plus, my kids have seasonal regression too - very strong relapses starting in the fall. Fall use to be my favorite season, but I've come to dread it and become anxious for that regression (because it was very serious some years - like needing hospital, homebound from school, etc).
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

cakegirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/4/2018 4:38 PM (GMT -6)   
goshawk said...
I started treatment in Sept 2016 with AbX, then added in some Buhner herbals. I then went all Herbals in July 2017.

There are many ups and downs with any of these treatments...I have been at 95 % but then back down to 80% then now back to 95%.

I believe there are many factors to why this happens to some of us. So many different things could be going on the influence and then change our status/well being.

For me candida, a cold, ramping up to fast on herbals,overdoing it,stress, not detoxing on a steady basis and the most relevant one...the infections are still there somewhere and keep showing up.

But that is a good thing..I would rather know now and keep the pressure on treating to try and kill all that I can.

I have had two 2 weeks stretches since July with no symptoms. So I believe I'm slowly getting there.

My llmd does have me change things up with the herbals and has me alternating Sida acuta and Andrographis . We also added back in Arginine a month ago,taking it 3 X day (1500 mg each).

It has noticeably helped.

Caution: I understand some cant take this due to active herpes, shingles, EBV I believe.

Bidens is a powerful herbal and did increase my symptoms(herx) when I started on it.

It also sounds like your body could be weakened by the bleeding and/or hormonal changes that may be happening with that.

Hang in there and I hope things turn around for you soon, Jo


How much Bidens are you able to take? We are only taking tiny amounts after initially being able to take 10 drops. But the 10 drops increased symptoms, so back to about 1 drop.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 2037
   Posted 1/4/2018 4:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I started at 5 drops a few weeks ago. I took 6 drops once or twice but holding out at 5 drops for now.

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2299
   Posted 1/4/2018 4:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I take 20 to 25 drops 3X daily of Bidens now.

When I started it I took only 1 to two drops and then built up.


I had big increase in having night sweats,pulsing/vibrations in neck and head when I first started.

cakegirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/4/2018 5:09 PM (GMT -6)   
How did you work up to your dosage? Did you just go slow and wait for the increase in symptoms to stop before continuing?

goshawk
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2299
   Posted 1/4/2018 5:48 PM (GMT -6)   
If I have a rough herx I wait for the symptoms to settle down before adding anymore.It does take a few days sometimes. Everyone is a bit different.

I think it took almost 3 months to build up to my current dose of Bidens.

My llmd does say it is a strong herb so do be careful. Herxing is not good for our body. Lots of detoxing.
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