CD 57 question

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mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 1/4/2018 1:55 PM (GMT -6)   
So I haven't been on much because I've been feeling great. Seriously the best I've felt since long, long before becoming sick. I have been doing great for about 3-4 months. No symptoms at all. I see my LLMD next week, and he's probably going to stop the abx. Note - I started Cat's Claw and Japanese Knotweed per his instruction in anticipation of coming off the abx. Also doing ACS Silver.

Well, I got my labs back (he does monthly routine labs for liver function, etc. while on abx). He tested my CD 57 as well, which has never been tested before, and it was 87. So now the wind has been taken out of my sail. I was all set to hear "remission" on y next visit, but everything I've seen says anything less than 200, and certainly anything under 100, means you've still got an active case. I've never had my CD 57 tested before, so there's nothing to compare it to.

So how much stock should I put in this test?

A little history, started symptoms in April 2016. Got crazy sick in Sept 2016. Diagnosed and positive test (DNA Connexions) Feb 2017. Been on abx since. Also crazy, super-clean, AIP diet and a ton of supplements. Been symptom free for 3-4 months. No idea when I was infected.

TxBart
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 1/4/2018 2:09 PM (GMT -6)   
When I had my CD 57 tested is was 66 which also had me a little down considering the range that I'm sure we're both looking at is 60-360. Dr. T said it was ok (he actually switched me to a wellness patient this week). I asked my naturopath and she said that yes, I'm ok, but she likes to see it at 85 or better. Either way, I don't think your 87 is a bad thing. Glad you're symptom free!!

On a side note: I'm a little curious why he doesn't include that test right off the bat. He waited til I was almost symptom free to give it to me, too. Makes it hard to gauge progress.

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 1/4/2018 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
TxBart said...
When I had my CD 57 tested is was 66 which also had me a little down considering the range that I'm sure we're both looking at is 60-360. Dr. T said it was ok (he actually switched me to a wellness patient this week). I asked my naturopath and she said that yes, I'm ok, but she likes to see it at 85 or better. Either way, I don't think your 87 is a bad thing. Glad you're symptom free!!

On a side note: I'm a little curious why he doesn't include that test right off the bat. He waited til I was almost symptom free to give it to me, too. Makes it hard to gauge progress.


You see Dr. T in Austin too, right? I don't know why he doesn't do the CD 57 right off the bat. Maybe he doesn't put too much stock in it. Glad to hear you are doing so well! I am anticipating being switched to a wellness patient next week too smile

WalkingbyFaith
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Date Joined Aug 2017
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   Posted 1/4/2018 3:41 PM (GMT -6)   
In Buhner's book he mentions that studies were done that proved cat's claw can raise CD57 levels. If I were you, I would continue with the herbs at least 6 months and have it tested again.

I know there's conflicting data about the significance of the CD57 level, but I'd feel more comfortable if it were higher. If you're symptom free, you might want to try astragalus too. Astragalus is the main herb for Lyme prevention. For those with chronic Lyme, it can make symptoms worse due to boosting the immune response that is already dysfunctional. You just have to try it and see.

My initial CD57 was 39 in Sep 2016. The only treatment I've had for Lyme was 7 days of minocycline back in January and 4-5 drops of cat's claw 3x day for a few months. After Thanksgiving, my CD57 was 48. A tiny bit higher. Don't know if I can rely that yet. Time will tell.

I'd be interested to know if coinfections have any affect on CD57 levels. I've only seen references to Lyme.

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 1/4/2018 4:25 PM (GMT -6)   
WalkingbyFaith said...
In Buhner's book he mentions that studies were done that proved cat's claw can raise CD57 levels. If I were you, I would continue with the herbs at least 6 months and have it tested again.

I know there's conflicting data about the significance of the CD57 level, but I'd feel more comfortable if it were higher. If you're symptom free, you might want to try astragalus too. Astragalus is the main herb for Lyme prevention. For those with chronic Lyme, it can make symptoms worse due to boosting the immune response that is already dysfunctional. You just have to try it and see.

My initial CD57 was 39 in Sep 2016. The only treatment I've had for Lyme was 7 days of minocycline back in January and 4-5 drops of cat's claw 3x day for a few months. After Thanksgiving, my CD57 was 48. A tiny bit higher. Don't know if I can rely that yet. Time will tell.

I'd be interested to know if coinfections have any affect on CD57 levels. I've only seen references to Lyme.


Thanks! I will ask about the astragalus when I see him next week. I just started the Cat's Claw and Japanese Knotweed about a month ago, so I don't even think I had started them when the tests were done. I am doing 20 drops of Cat's Claw 3 times a day, and 5 drops of Japanese Knotweed 3 times a day. I didn't Herx at all when I started them, which I take as a good sign. He's really big on the colloidal silver, so I think he's going to say to keep doing that instead of astragalus. I seem to be doing well on it, so I may just stick with it.

OriolCarol
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Date Joined Dec 2017
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   Posted 1/4/2018 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
It's not a good test for lyme. I've done this test three times and i get first 800, after 260 and now 500. And I'm very sick...

bmoberg337
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2014
Total Posts : 88
   Posted 1/4/2018 8:36 PM (GMT -6)   
mm57553 said...


So how much stock should I put in this test?



There was a post not too long ago started by astroman talking about CD57, might be worth looking up in the search bar. Personally, I think CD57 is very relevant. I can’t speak to its relavance and specificity to Lyme but research studies out there show that the only thing that would skew these numbers are infections, cancer/tumors, and autoimmune disease. Also, what most reasearch indicates is that infections (viral) tend to increase your CD57 levels whereas autoimmune conditions lower your CD57 levels. So its really interesting and unique that the Lyme community reports such low numbers. Most literature speaks to NK’s effects on viral infections (they are leukocytes that lyse virally infected cells) so it’s even more strange that we see this connection with Lyme.

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 1/4/2018 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
There was a cd57 discussion two days ago. Might want to check it out.
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again w/with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 1/5/2018 7:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, I searched before posting but didn't find what I was looking for. Will search again!

astroman
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 1/5/2018 12:36 PM (GMT -6)   
mm57553- the other cd57 post were not loaded with info, as there is not much info on this.

CD57 is one way to measure immune cell strength. Its NOT a lyme test. Lyme is known to lower it (control it/alter it), probably in longer term infections - and/or- also possibly where autoimmune is also happening. I have had both, thus my cd57 has been low for a long time, it goes up real slow and was at the lowest point while on ABX.

Maybe in lyme cases where cd57 is still in range, these were not "decade plus" old infections?

Since I've recently had other immune markers "improve" , it would be interesting to see my cd57 again, as this should improve too, but its cost me $135-150 every time.

Many illnesses (not lyme) raise the CD57 count, (your body does to fight the illness).

There are very few cd57 studies that take things beyond lyme into account.

I dont know who does these studies, but a few more questions with a few more facts/patient history is all it would take to take some mystery out of this test!!
Had initial lyme symptoms late 80's, then again w/with bullseye early 90's. Ended ABX for Lyme in 2015. Rebuilding / repairing / fine tuning since then; member "10 Percenters Lyme Club". What an adventure this has been. Hashimotos adds to the enjoyment.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/5/2018 11:40:12 AM (GMT-7)


mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 543
   Posted 1/5/2018 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
astroman said...
mm57553- the other cd57 post were not loaded with info, as there is not much info on this.

CD57 is one way to measure immune cell strength. Its NOT a lyme test. Lyme is known to lower it (control it/alter it), probably in longer term infections - and/or- also possibly where autoimmune is also happening. I have had both, thus my cd57 has been low for a long time, it goes up real slow and was at the lowest point while on ABX.

Maybe in lyme cases where cd57 is still in range, these were not "decade plus" old infections?

Since I've recently had other immune markers "improve" , it would be interesting to see my cd57 again, as this should improve too, but its cost me $135-150 every time.

Many illnesses (not lyme) raise the CD57 count, (your body does to fight the illness).

There are very few cd57 studies that take things beyond lyme into account.

I dont know who does these studies, but a few more questions with a few more facts/patient history is all it would take to take some mystery out of this test!!


Thank you. That is very helpful. I wonder if me still being on abx is keeping it a little low.

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 1/6/2018 7:43 PM (GMT -6)   
OriolCarol said...
It's not a good test for lyme. I've done this test three times and i get first 800, after 260 and now 500. And I'm very sick...


Are coinfections more of an issue for you than lyme? Just curious with your high CD57 numbers...
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

1000Daisies
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Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 2438
   Posted 1/6/2018 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
We've been tracking our CD57 for several years now (for the person who has been sickest - the rest of us numerous years).

You are right - it sure would have been more helpful to have this tested at the beginning of treatment.

Ours have been really low.
Mine is the only one that is high, but I also feel that lyme is not much of an issue for me as compared to my kids and others. I don't believe it's my biggest issue personally.

I know it's criticized frequently on this board, but I find tracking the CD57 and c4a together the most helpful in the long term (not short term).
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Still sick now despite being treated for years but doing better (not well yet).
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.
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