IV Antibiotics vs. Oral for Lyme and Bartonella

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LymeDocSearch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 1/9/2018 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
What are people’s thoughts and experiences on taking IV vs. Oralbantibiotics. I’ve been on oral abx for 9 months and not getting better. I’m also rifing, Buhner Protocol and detoxing. If I don’t get better soon, I may lose my job of 17 years. My LLMD says IV is no different than Oral and no advantage. He also mentioned that I won’t be approved for IV since I was “Equiv” for Lyme. I was positive for Bartonella (PCR), so cant my doctor try getting me IV for Bartonella if not Lyme?

My friend has been so ill for 5 years and is in the middle of IV antibiotics and she is feeling amazing!

Thanks all!

With love,

LDS

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33927
   Posted 1/9/2018 9:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I heard an interview with Dr J (Washington DC) and it was something like only 20% of the patients he recommends IV for.

I’m trying to remember the criteria - I think one reason is if their GI system can’t tolerate orals.
He also mentioned ALS symptoms.
Sorry, I didn’t retain all the info.

Question- Have you treated Babesia?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Hoagie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 805
   Posted 1/9/2018 10:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr J believes most can get better on oral. In certain instances heavily involving eyes and brain he recommends IV. Unfortunately, I look to be one of those cases.

Heading to Duke neuro team soon to figure out if my brain issues are something other than Lyme and co. If it ends up that it definitely is Lyme, there is an LLMD close to me that offers IV treatment a fraction of the cost Dr J does. I'll have to go that route.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1527
   Posted 1/9/2018 10:22 PM (GMT -6)   
IV has to be combined with orals. u simply cannot do 3 antibiotics on IV and call it a day.

one reason to try IV is get vancomycin, which by itself is superior to any other single lyme abx. it is a reserve abx and usually can only get it in hospitals. we have a few members here taking vanco, with good results. vanco saves people from dying for eg when metronidazole resistant cdiff strains are found, so it's harder to convince doctors you need it for lyme.

but the rest of IVs .... no impressive results. including ceftriaxone which is really no better than mino...

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33927
   Posted 1/10/2018 1:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Dr J uses IV Clindamycin and Azithromycin.

He adds orals to it.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

tickbite666
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 1664
   Posted 1/10/2018 8:11 AM (GMT -6)   
I did IV for 16 months. My thoughts are it should be used for the most serious neurological cases or patients that can't tolerate oral ABX. I was neither, but it did help, and I probably did it for too long.

Here's the oral combos I took while on IV. I had started treatment in March 2010 and switch LLMD's a year later. Six months into treatment with my second LLMD she recommended IV and it took me a few months to get to health care enrollment time to change my health plan to more favorable IV coverage with lower deductible since IV was covered under medical instead of prescription coverage.

4/1/13 to 5/22/13: Oral Minocycline, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
3/8/13 to 3/30/13: IV Doxycycline, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
2/5/13 to 3/7/13: Zithromax, IV Doxycycline, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
1/21/13 to 2/5/13: Zithromax, IV Doxycycline, Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
10/29/12 to 1/20/13: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
9/12/12 to 10/29/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS
8/25/12 to 9/11/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2
6/30/12 to 8/24/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Diflucan
6/22/12 to 6/29/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2
4/19/12 to 6/21/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron, Bactrim DS
2/27/12 to 4/19/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron
2/21/12 to 2/26/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk, 3 days off pulse), Actigall, Rifampin
1/17/12 to 2/20/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (1x/day), Actigall, Rifampin
12/19/11 to 1/16/12: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (1x/day), Actigall
10/11/11 to 12/9/11: Zithromax, Doxycycline, Rifampin (STOPPED all due to elevated ALT/AST)

LymeDocSearch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 1/10/2018 9:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, being blood labs and DNA Connections urine PCR didn’t show Babesia, my LLMD will not treat me for Babesia. I went to an Infectious Disease doctor in Delaware County who acted as if he was God commented that he thinks I may have Babesia but he refused to treat me because his labs didn’t show any Lyme (Western Blot CDC), Babesia or Bartonella.

My current LLMD’s PCR Test shows Bartonella but the Infectious Disease Doctor told me he “doesn’t pay attention to those results, everyone is positive on those.”

I’m very sick and frustrated and not sure where to turn next? I’m currently on disability through work and because of this, I had to apply for SSD.

I receive my Ozone generator soon to start my daily Rectal and hoping this, my continued Rifing, Sauna and Buhner Bartonella Protocol does something!

If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to communicate.

LymeDocSearch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 1/10/2018 9:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Also, since my past Lyme test via MDL was “Equivical,” maybe I should pay Igenex to Test. Any suggestions on which exact tests I can look into, please let me know.

I’m not sure what the difference is between WesternBlot and Immunoblot testing? I was thinking of having the test that looks for lyme and co-infections but that is around $1,300.

I’m thinking if shows positive for lyme, my doc would then allow IV Antibiotics. How many weeks before Igenex tests should I stop Abx and would I need to stop the Buhner Bartonella Protocol until after test?

Missouri
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 397
   Posted 1/10/2018 9:52 AM (GMT -6)   
I think the Lyme testing from Igenex for IGM and IGG Western Blot is only like $250 or something. I think that is the best test we have for detecting exposure to Lyme borrelia.

My LLMD does not think testing is worthwhile for co-infections unless you have money to burn. He just goes ahead and treats for the main co's.

He said Bartonella testing only picks up a handful of strains, and there are many many out there.

He also said Babesia testing usually only picks up 2 strains out of the many out there.

Have you been on the same oral med for 9 months or have you tried different ones?

greatguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 104
   Posted 1/10/2018 11:19 AM (GMT -6)   
The IV is 3 times more expensive than orals, but around 10% better. I myself maybe have an ulcer, cause 2 weeks in oral, i started having some burning in my gut. But i can add omeprazole to it and i'd still save a lot of money.

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 1/10/2018 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
What herbs are you doing and what doses on the Buhner protocol.

Is your LLMD advising you on this also?

Maybe you need some tweaking to the herb protocol?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 33927
   Posted 1/10/2018 1:12 PM (GMT -6)   
LymeDocSearch said...
Girlie, being blood labs and DNA Connections urine PCR didn’t show Babesia, my LLMD will not treat me for Babesia. I went to an Infectious Disease doctor in Delaware County who acted as if he was God commented that he thinks I may have Babesia but he refused to treat me because his labs didn’t show any Lyme (Western Blot CDC), Babesia or Bartonella.

My current LLMD’s PCR Test shows Bartonella but the Infectious Disease Doctor told me he “doesn’t pay attention to those results, everyone is positive on those.”

I’m very sick and frustrated and not sure where to turn next? I’m currently on disability through work and because of this, I had to apply for SSD.

I receive my Ozone generator soon to start my daily Rectal and hoping this, my continued Rifing, Sauna and Buhner Bartonella Protocol does something!

If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to communicate.


I would find another LLMD and get a second opinion. You can email me if you need some options.

That's what I'm having to do now...I plateaued on lyme/bart treatment.
So, now I'm going to travel a good distance to a very experienced LLMD.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

LymeDocSearch
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 47
   Posted 1/14/2018 10:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi PeteZa,

I am currently not home to see which exact herbs and supplements I’m taking via Stephen Buhner’s Bartonella Protocol but I will write them here when I’m home. I’ve been doing this Protocol for months with no relief. My neck lymph nodes, soles and toes of my feet hurt every day. The protocol is the latest from Buhner’s most recent book.

Thanks again!

kimbo62
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2015
Total Posts : 100
   Posted 1/16/2018 11:46 AM (GMT -6)   
I was on oral for several months and it just added to my nausea and vomiting. I was switched to IV and I herxed like crazy. Currently taking a break from all but IVIG.

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 1/16/2018 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
LymeDocSearch said...
Hi PeteZa,

I am currently not home to see which exact herbs and supplements I’m taking via Stephen Buhner’s Bartonella Protocol but I will write them here when I’m home. I’ve been doing this Protocol for months with no relief. My neck lymph nodes, soles and toes of my feet hurt every day. The protocol is the latest from Buhner’s most recent book.

Thanks again!


Maybe it is just lyme??? I had burning feet and it felt like there was glass in the bottoms. My lymph nodes, especially in my neck were swollen. I had bart scratch marks on my stomach once and I did have a little air hunger with night sweats. I never did test for co infections because I was told they are so highly unreliable.

I did Buhner's core protocol and at the end added in Cryptolepis and Houttuynia for Babs and Bart.

I wonder if Buhner calls it his core protocol so we will do it first and then add in the others if we can't heal with that?
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