Silly question but I have to ask... l want to take l-arginine...

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Szabo246
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   Posted 1/10/2018 5:35 PM (GMT -6)   
But I read not to take it if you have active herpes, what does that actually mean? I do get cold sores sometimes, does that mean I cant take l arginine? Or I just can’t take it when I have a cold sore? Or neither of them?

PeteZa
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   Posted 1/10/2018 5:43 PM (GMT -6)   
There are 9 herpesvirus types known to infect humans.

I really have no better knowledge of Herpes Simplex than that.

WalkingbyFaith
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   Posted 1/10/2018 6:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Szabo,

Buhner cautions against taking it if you have an active outbreak. I believe he stated it would not cause an outbreak, but I have seen comments from others who stated it did cause outbreaks for them. I would say use with caution. I had shingles last year and fear a reprisal, so I'm not brace enough to try it.

If you do take the chance, I would suggest supplementing with l-lysine at the same time. L-lysine is recommended to help prevent viral replication.

Szabo246
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   Posted 1/10/2018 6:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Great, thank you! I already have some l-lysine as I used to take it to help my cold sore disappear! Will use with the l arginine.

Girlie
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   Posted 1/10/2018 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
When my LLND prescribed l arginine - he also prescribed l lysine to be taken with it to counteract a reactivation of ebv
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
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dacarte3
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   Posted 1/10/2018 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   
So here's the catch 22 with L-Arg if you are trying to avoid any herpes complication.

Lysine is the antagonist of L-Arg. So while taking lysine does prevent herpes issues when taking L-Arg it is also scientifically argued that you then don't get the health benefits of L-Arg when you do this.

They cancel each other out. It makes logical sense but I don't know if it's 100% true in real life.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Girlie
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   Posted 1/10/2018 7:13 PM (GMT -6)   
dacarte3 said...
So here's the catch 22 with L-Arg if you are trying to avoid any herpes complication.

Lysine is the antagonist of L-Arg. So while taking lysine does prevent herpes issues when taking L-Arg it is also scientifically argued that you then don't get the health benefits of L-Arg when you do this.

They cancel each other out. It makes logical sense but I don't know if it's 100% true in real life.


I did see a post about that a couple years ago...but my LLND says no it doesn't cancel out the L-Arg.
Just stops the ebv from reactivating...

IDK though.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

ChickenArise
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   Posted 1/10/2018 9:41 PM (GMT -6)   
There are no silly questions.

This was not a happy moment of my life but I will share my experience because it is an interesting anecdote. I cant draw any conclusions about Arganine but I can say with certainty that it aggravates a cyst in my testicle with continued use. Please take note of how I used the singular in my statement...

What is interesting is Lysine will temporarily aggravate it also but it doesn't get progressively worse as it will with Arganine.

I have replaced Arganine with Agmatine Sulfate. The latter is a metabolite of the former. Some effects are similar but some are opposite of Arganine which is very curious indeed. I believe its effect on Nitric Oxide is one of these curious opposites. Agmatine feels safer, but who knows?!

I am continuing with the Lysine and Olive Leaf Extract. I have isolated the Lysine so I can pay attention to its effect since I can (without a doubt) feel an aggravation it in the cyst area within an hour of taking it but this doesn't continue to get progressively worse as it would with continued Arganine use.

I wish I could be certain of what these aminos are doing to my body. Is it attacking the cyst? Is the cyst related to a virus?

Don't be concerned with answering my questions as they are all rhetorical and in the spirit of reflection.

Isolated aminos are fascinating though. I have heard the opinion that these are simply chemicals because they do not occur in nature as isolates. I find it difficult to argue with this statement.

Imagine my recent surprise when I read the article below which suggests that 'weightlifting supplements' are inked to an increased risk of testicular cancer.

/www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/muscle-building-supplements-linked-to-testicular-cancer/

A broad statement when presented in this manner of 'weightlifting supplements' don't you think?
Why didn't the article simply say 'amino acids' as this is what it is most likely alluding to?

I admit I was taking large amounts of Arganine (5g daily) when I developed that same cancer. I got the memo a bit late but how many testicles does a guy really need?

The same 'prestigious' university now admits to the existence of a geongineering program in 2017 (albeit 2 decades after the first chemtrails appeared). But I digress.

/geoengineering.environment.harvard.edu/

What is your goal with the Arganine? Does it outweigh any risks?

These are just questions I will likely ponder for the rest of my days. But, I wont be taking Arganine again. One could call me crazy for messing with any isolated aminos or Agmatine and I wouldn't argue. But the Agmatine has a function. It keeps me from becoming tolerant to Kratom. It works too.

Maybe getting Arganine from food is a much safer way. Maybe taking aminos all in their whole form would be better? It depends on the source I guess.

Some aminos are just soy beans given an acid bath. (*Cough* Braggs). Not what I would want to ingest but they are technically aminos. So much for truth in labeling.

If you decide to supplement, I do hope you have a very different and more positive experience with Arganine than the one I did.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
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Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 1/10/2018 8:50:51 PM (GMT-7)


Traveler
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   Posted 1/11/2018 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Arginine and Lysine use the same pathway in the body, so they can't both be supplemented at the same time, because they end up only competing for that pathway and cancel each other out. Getting arginine through foods might work better though, for those that wish to take it. Just watch for any signs that the viruses aren't becoming active again, and if they are, stop supplementing the arginine/arginine foods!

I have a lot of trouble with herpes viruses - several of them, actually. I won't take arginine, but I do supplement with lysine daily to keep them under control.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
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cr3ativegirl
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   Posted 1/11/2018 1:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I took the high dose Arginine per Buhner barton ella and it re-eactived my mycoplasma. I then re-read the Buhner mycoplasma section and it says stay away from Arginine. So, just be careful you don't upset your balance. It is very interesting to see how this particular supplement can create so many different issues. I stay away from it.
Oct 2015 Dx Lyme, Candida, Mold, Toxic Metals, multiple co-infections
Jan 2016 Minocycline pulse/ Nystatin, Flucanizole
Feb 2016 LDI for Mold, Lyme, EBV, Added Tinidozole, Flucanizole
Sept 2016 Switched to Buhner herbs. @ 90%
January 2017 Plaquenil for Babesia @95%
Feb 2017 Dx Mucor/Mycoplasma in Nervous system.
Oct 2017 Dx Bartonella - @95%

Notime4lyme
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 272
   Posted 1/11/2018 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't like arginine. I have bartonella and high-arginine foods always exacerbated my symptoms.

Szabo246
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 484
   Posted 1/12/2018 5:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for your input all, chickenarise, I’m sorry to hear about your bad experience with this, it’s so difficult to know what effect each herb, supplement etc will have especially long term.

Think I will try and hit babesia with herbs and artesunate for now, as I do suffer with heroes simplex virus the last thing I need are more complications

May add in later depending on progress along with the l lysine
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