Dr J clinic in DC

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aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/11/2018 7:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi:
I have heard about this dr a few times on this board but since he is about 5 hrs away from me I didn't give it much thought.

Recently I decided to look into what he is all about. I called the office and was informed that he treats with abx.

I am not crazy about using abx for chronic Lyme.

Does anybody have any input as to how good he is? Is he and his clinic that great that it's worth going 5 hrs and spending a ton of money and being treated with abx for Lyme disease that I have had for years?

I am on buhner protocol now for about 2 1/2 months and feel horrible!!

Thanks for any input.

Dahlias
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 456
   Posted 1/11/2018 7:38 PM (GMT -6)   
I started going there last October. Unlikely that you would ever see Dr. J himself, but his staff are very knowledgeable. The protocol is aggressive and there is very little flexibility, and you cannot get through to a nurse on the phone without leaving a message and waiting 1-2 business days. But I feel like they know what they're doing and I have found the protocol effective so far.

aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/11/2018 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you dalias.
Good to know. What about diet. Do they focus on that? I don't want to be on the Lyme diet. It's an impossible diet. I have done the candida diet years ago when I first got sick. It's extremely difficult. I also don't think it's the end all to get better. I don't have a terrible diet. I eat pretty good but I like my drinks when I go out and I have a bit of a sweet tooth. But I certainly don't go crazy!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/11/2018 8:14 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Hi:
I have heard about this dr a few times on this board but since he is about 5 hrs away from me I didn't give it much thought.

Recently I decided to look into what he is all about. I called the office and was informed that he treats with abx.

I am not crazy about using abx for chronic Lyme.

Does anybody have any input as to how good he is? Is he and his clinic that great that it's worth going 5 hrs and spending a ton of money and being treated with abx for Lyme disease that I have had for years?

I am on buhner protocol now for about 2 1/2 months and feel horrible!!

Thanks for any input.


I have decided to see him...you think 5 hours is far? LOL I'm flying across the continent from Canada (west coast) to see him. I have plateaued with my LLND...and he seems uninterested in getting me further IMO. So, my choice to see him is after a few months of research...but I am on board with antibiotics.
I am bringing my MRI's on a disk. My LLND never looked at the imaging of my brain. Dr. J. will.
He definitely knows his stuff. Does he heal everyone...? I doubt it.
Dr. J doesn't give up on his patients...he said that in an interview once.

As far as spending a ton of money. I don't think it will end up being more than many other LLMDs.
I just heard a Dr. in a NE State charges $1500 for initial consult. And he isn't as well-known as Dr. J and hasn't been a LLMD as long.
Dr. J's is less than that....and what I like is appts are 3-4 months apart...he doesn't change up the protocol every month. And - I am going to do my 2nd appt via phone call...so no travel necessary.

Here's an interview that he did in 2017 - you can get a gist of what he does:



/www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDe0L-5yKvI

Re: seeing him...some people do see him - maybe not at the initial consult. I have asked to see him at the end of my appt. I was told he could come in for 15 minutes. (I'll take it)

Oh and the initial consult is 2 hours long.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 1/12/2018 2:09:51 AM (GMT-7)


Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/11/2018 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Thank you dalias.
Good to know. What about diet. Do they focus on that? I don't want to be on the Lyme diet. It's an impossible diet. I have done the candida diet years ago when I first got sick. It's extremely difficult. I also don't think it's the end all to get better. I don't have a terrible diet. I eat pretty good but I like my drinks when I go out and I have a bit of a sweet tooth. But I certainly don't go crazy!!


I don't think Dr. J. has a particular diet. I think he discusses eating healthy...but that's it.
(Not that I have seen or heard anyway)

If this is wrong...someone can correct me.

I will find out within a month's time...so you can email me mid-Feb if you want.

I also don't follow a strict diet. I did for several months - and didn't feel any better.
I do eat sweets sometimes...always have...

BTW - wanted to mention - he's known to have 'aggressive' protocols because he will prescribe sometimes three abx to be taken at once...or two plus an anti-malarial...etc.

BUT, I did a similar pulsed protocol on my own...and I found it easier to tolerate than taking only two abx every single day.

And - he is an Infectious Disease Dr. and board certified Internist. (and of course LL)

okay - how can you tell I'm smitten with him? tongue
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 1/11/2018 7:22:11 PM (GMT-7)


aphysicalwreck
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/11/2018 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you girlie. Your info is very helpful. Do you feel any better yet? How many years have you been suffering?

What are the meds they gave you? Do you do herbs with it as well?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/11/2018 8:43 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
Thank you girlie. Your info is very helpful. Do you feel any better yet? How many years have you been suffering?

What are the meds they gave you? Do you do herbs with it as well?



Sorry - if I wasn't clear - I'm planning on seeing him soon - just making arrangements - so if you want more info, you can email me mid-Feb after I've had my initial consult with the PA.


I will probably be prescribed Mepron plus a couple of abx...and maybe a couple days per month cyst buster - flagyl or tinidazole. I've been searching information on the 'net' for awhile now...as well as seeing what people here on the forum post.
BUT, I really don't know - I'm basing that on him wanting to treat Babesia first.

From what I've seen - he doesn't prescribe many herbals. I do know Artemisinin is one that he does prescribe.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 1/11/2018 7:46:22 PM (GMT-7)


aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/11/2018 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you girlie.

Good luck with your appt. keep us posted. I am sure others would love the feedback also!!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/11/2018 9:29 PM (GMT -6)   
don't worry - I will post after my appointment.


This is a big adventure for my hubby and I. I haven't flown since having lyme. I'm a bit concerned about head pressure on take off and landing...


Neither one of us likes flying to start with...But, I'm teasing hubby with an NHL hockey game that may be happening when we're there...lol.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

aphysicalwreck
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/11/2018 9:41 PM (GMT -6)   
That's sweet of you to do that for your husband.

I fly several times a year and one of my main symptoms of lyme is head pressure and head tingling. The flight never made it worse!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/11/2018 9:47 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
That's sweet of you to do that for your husband.

I fly several times a year and one of my main symptoms of lyme is head pressure and head tingling. The flight never made it worse!!


Oh good to know. Thanks for reassuring me.
I think it would only be on take-off or landing, right? If I make it through the take-off the pressure should normalize in the cabin?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Dahlias
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 456
   Posted 1/12/2018 2:17 AM (GMT -6)   
As for diet, they told me to avoid gluten, alcohol, sugar and sugar substitutes (until they prescribe a certain amount of sugar substitute later to break biofilms). As with any doctor, it is up to you how strict you are with it. It's not something they emphasized heavily to me. But I do think they have good support and reasons for what they do.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/12/2018 3:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Dahlias said...
As for diet, they told me to avoid gluten, alcohol, sugar and sugar substitutes (until they prescribe a certain amount of sugar substitute later to break biofilms). As with any doctor, it is up to you how strict you are with it. It's not something they emphasized heavily to me. But I do think they have good support and reasons for what they do.


Thanks Dahlias - I didn't know they want you on gluten free (or sugar free) diet.


The sugar substitute is Xylitol.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

PeppermintTea
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts : 266
   Posted 1/12/2018 6:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Aphysicalwreck -

All four of us in our family starting going to the JC clinic in November of 2017. Each of us has had lyme for many years. Each of us were previously treated back in 2014 by another doctor and got to 70-75% but symptoms would creep back in.

We came to the decision to go to the JC clinic because:

1) Dr. J. had cutting edge ideas that were effective in the treatment of AIDS many years ago. He applies those same approach to lyme.

2) He continues to do research on emerging breakthroughs and applies them to his work/protocols

3) He combines abx and some herbals; He has a protocol he follows.

4) He pulses his medications ( we have never tried this approach before)

5) He employs a team of practitioners that have been trained by him so more patients can be seen (eliminating the wait lists) . EX: All four of us were seen on the same day!

6) He has extensive knowledge on lyme patients - and the various impacts it can and does have on the body systems.

7) We had already spent $1000's in treatment. Our daughter is in a very bad place and neither of our children are in a place to attend school. We decided we would rather invest extra money in what we view is a best shot treatment than continue doing more of the same.


10 weeks into treatment at the JC clinic. I would say I am still confident and pleased with our decision. Yes. Phone calls and emails have a 1-2 day turn around but they are helping so many people. I gladly will accept a 1-2 day wait time (and use these boards as a backup) rather than having to wait 6-12 months to get in to the clinic initially. Here are some other reasons I am happy with them:

1) They really got to know us in our 2-2.5 hour intake meeting. Some testing I had never seen before

2) They ordered an MRI for our daughter. We learned she has a lyme-induced brain lesion. This explains so many of her issues.

3) Treatment is different speeds for each of us. My daughter's is VERY slow. First goal is to reduce her inflammation. Mine is much more fast paced. I appreciate they treat each patient as unique.

4) Collaboration. They actually consulted with a lyme Psychiatrist on the best meds for my daughter. I couldn't believe they consulted. Big hugs to them!

5) Our next appointment is a phone consult. Not every appointment is a trip.


6) Each of us like and feel heard by who is treating us!


I hope this helps.

Big warm hugs.

Peppermint Tea

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 1/12/2018 7:11 AM (GMT -6)   
i've been seeing Dr. J for a year. i've been on basically the same protocol all that time.

yes Dr. J knows his stuff and if you are a simple or very complex case they can "handle" you. can't say the same for many other LLMD's out there.

not sure how "cutting edge" he is as he's still using artemisinin and enula but apparently they've worked for him so why change?

they know little about herbs for example I asked Dr. J about whether it was ok to use Anti-Tox II for nerves and he had to look it up. however they know what herbs they can pair with their abx protocols to make it more potent when needed (e.g. adding Crypto to babesia regimen).

yes they are pretty much strictly abx so if you don't like that its not the place for you.

Dr. J told me that other LLMD's try to copy his customized pulsing protocol and it rarely works all the way through because at some point they screw it up from what he (and his staff) would do. so its not just the pulsing its HOW he pulses and what he decides to do as you go through your long treatment journey.

as others have said response to inquiries is usually slow but if you have a more immediate need they typically get back to you same day.

in summary Dr. J's clinic is one of the best out there so you really can't go wrong seeing him given other options. if you are into other modalities (herbs, rife, etc.) not the place for you.

k07
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Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 2501
   Posted 1/12/2018 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Rikky - Have you noticed any improvements in the year you've been seeing him?

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 1/12/2018 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
>>Rikky - Have you noticed any improvements in the year you've been seeing him?

Nope in fact I'm worse but here's the deal with me. I treated primarily babesia from Mar 2015 to Jan 2016 with all sorts of crap then stopped for all of 2016 went after Bart (you hit lyme with both protocols as another benefit).

When I went to see Dr. J in Mar 2017 he said you haven't cleared babesia yet it can be a real tough bug to get rid of. So I made some progress the first 2 years but not enough to eradicate it.

Dr. J is big on believing that most chronic tick transmitted infections are due to babesia being in the way. Don't know the science behind it but he almost always goes after Babesia first and while doing that he manages whatever symptoms you have.

He said most of his patients clear babesia in 4 months I've taken almost a year my wife is 7 months in and still has it. He says everyone is different so no point looking at what most people do.

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4429
   Posted 1/12/2018 4:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Rikky and others,

I didn't have babesia and I healed and I didn't use antibiotics. I did have ehrlichia and healed from that (again, no abx).

So basically his clinic is about giving antibiotics? Does he have a time frame for them? What about damage to one's gut and other side effects? (I do know he pulses them every other day).

My last question is did Dr. J. from D.C. have chronic lyme himself?

The reason I ask is that people e-mail me privately for help and some of them are taking long-term abx and I really don't know what to tell them except to take probiotics and detox. I wish I could be more helpful.

Thanks,
Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

yancync
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 1/12/2018 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I have not seen any indication that Dr. J had Lyme himself. He is an infectious disease doctor who was the first to treat AIDS patients in NC. AIDS and Lyme are multi systemic chronic infections/viruses (in case of AIDS). He had a lot of Lyme patients hear about him and start coming to him for help. He eventually moved to serving Lyme patients. His young daughter had cancer so he has much empathy and knowledge from his life experiences.

As far as antibiotics, many have had success. Our son takes probiotics (incl one recommended by the clinic) religiously. I know some patients find they have too many issues and have to quit. It is also quite rough with the herxing because you can be on 3-4 antibiotics at any time. We find the pulsing to be more gentle on herxing and with the gut. Our son never had specific gut issues like many others so that may be a factor as well.

They do recommend a few herbs along with the treatment but not a lot, and are very open to listening to what patients would like to try herbally/naturally and will give their feedback if they have seen/heard from other patients. For example they asked us not to use Cat's Claw during treatment because they saw it causing more troubles than benefits. Other than that one, everything else we've asked about has been given the thumbs up to try.
Parent of teen DS w/ CDC+ Lyme test Nov 2015, late stage Lyme + mycoplasma, bartonella, babesia. Currently treating with antibiotics/anti-malerials, multivitamin, magnesium, Charlotte's Web Advanced CBD oil.

Website I started: ParentsofLymeKids.com aka Lyme Disease 101 for Parents

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 1/12/2018 6:32 PM (GMT -6)   
>>I didn't have babesia and I healed and I didn't use antibiotics. I did have ehrlichia and healed from that (again, no abx).

Your story is unique to you. No one will follow the same course as you and likely get the same outcome. We're just all so different in terms of what pathogens we have, overall health, immune system, diet, lifestyle, etc. etc.

I work with a woman who had knee swelling and got tested positive for lyme. She took nothing and after 2 months of her knee swelling it went away and she's been fine for over a year. How does one explain that?

To make blanket statements is dangerous when treating this disease (not that you are but I'm using it as a point ;o). That's why its so important to share our stories because something could trigger a thought that might take someone down a path to get well.

I remember when my first LLMD answered when I asked him "how long do you think it'll take for me to heal". He said I had a guy very similar to you in so many ways it took him about 8 months. Well here I am 3 years later and nowhere near recovered.

aphysicalwreck
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Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/12/2018 7:23 PM (GMT -6)   
This is all such great info. I look forward to hearing what Girlie has to say after her apppointment.

I am just afraid to live on abx though and also spend all that money with no guarantee of getting better.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/12/2018 8:03 PM (GMT -6)   
aphysicalwreck said...
This is all such great info. I look forward to hearing what Girlie has to say after her apppointment.

I am just afraid to live on abx though and also spend all that money with no guarantee of getting better.



oh man - i'm ready for a nervous breakdown...oy!

Called the clinic and booked an appointment - they are giving me 24 hours to get flights (well actually since they're closed Sat and Sunday, I get until Monday a.m.) and if I can't - I don't forfeit part of the appointment fee.

So, I had already researched flights...etc.two days ago...thought I'd go to the travel agent and have them do the booking...to make sure I had everything covered....also wanted medical insurance....

So, i'm there around 2:00 p.m. and she's very busy...got a few things on the go.

Well, what I had planned - was no longer available. Apparently there was a seat sale..so they went fast.

Trying to find something without having to leave a day earlier (no connecting flights from my small city to the big city airport) - it wasn't going well...I was getting over-whelmed because we were now changing times...and she asked about a different airlines...etc.
Then she asked if we would fly through the night....etc.etc. or maybe go the evening before and stay in the airport hotel. I couldn't give her a decision - because my husband works that day....not sure if he can take that day off.

I told her I'd leave her to search options and I'd go home..and to call me later this afternoon.

Well...she never called... I called just before they closed and left a message.

So, now I have to call the clinic Monday a.m. and say I need to drop the appt. and reschedule...and then I have 24 hours again to try and get flights.

Or...keep the appointment and go the night before and hope my husband gets the extra day off.

I'm tempted to just book them myself - but I just don't trust my brain right now....

Feeling demoralized.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 1/12/2018 9:06:20 PM (GMT-7)


goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 2112
   Posted 1/13/2018 4:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, I hope you were able to get the flights you needed.

Dont worry things will work out...you can book them yourself just take your time.

also most airlines will hold a flight for you for 24 hrs so you can book it and still cancel or change it with in the 24 hrs.
Hoping all goes well your almost there

Take care, Jo

Deejavu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4429
   Posted 1/13/2018 7:58 AM (GMT -6)   
First I would like to wish Girlie luck on getting your flights and I do hope you get the answers you are looking for at Dr. J's clinic in D.C.

Second: Rikky, I'm the one who followed other people's paths as far as Jernigan's protocol so I am not unique at all except that perhaps I healed faster compared to others but it's not a competition. Allow me to explain how I stumbled on Dr. Jernigan's protocol. I belonged to a different forum and looked for members who were getting better. There were very few which I found depressing. Most were on long-term abx. The minority were on herbal protocols.

One day a member started talking about Dr. Jernigan's book and she said "he is way ahead of his time" (yes, I remember those words like it was yesterday). That intrigued me as I didn't read his book yet. Soon after a member posted about his wife going to Hansa Center and I was just fascinated by all the treatment details. I kept waiting for more updates and they came.

That is when I decided to buy his book and follow his protocol. But it wasn't only me, it was many members who followed his protocol and healed.

Then on this forum I know at least 20 members that also followed his protocol and healed (many went to Hansa, some did not). I don't understand why these people can't take 5 minutes to come back and post an update.

Denise
12 years well ~ used Dr. Jernigan's protocol from his book about Biological Medicine (used Borrelogen, Microbojen and Neuro-Antitox).

I still detox even though healed and drink Green Vibrance. I come back to help others for others helped me when I was sick. Pay it forward! smile

http://javuviews.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/how-i-became-better-from-chronic-lyme

aphysicalwreck
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 647
   Posted 1/13/2018 8:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie
I don't understand!! Can't you make an appointment with the clinic for a few weeks out and then you will have time to look into flights?
Where are you flying from? I can take a look at flights for you. You don't need a travel agent. Most of us nowadays book our own.
Let me know if you need help with that.
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