Bart herx? houttunyia, traveler can you weigh in?

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

doors12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 689
   Posted 1/14/2018 7:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone

I have been in treatment for about 16 months with my lyme doc using mainly herbs. I had a lot of improvements but started developing nausea with tinidazole. My doctor stopped the tinidazole several months ago.

Recently I started diatomaceous earth and I had a herx from hell, bad nausea, fatigue, loss of appetite. Most of my symptoms on the diatomaceous seemed to be bart (or brucella?) related strangely. I am passing foul smelling parasitic stuff or biofilms every time I'm on the Diatomaceous.

I felt so bad that I started to feel I could no longer work. My work has become insanely stressful and involves a lot of driving, computer use and analyzing/data entry and interacting with customers a lot. I also have cognitive issues, e.g. short term memory, executive processes. I had several days where I felt SO ill that I felt like I wanted to curl up and die, and I was having to drive in this condition.

I made the decision that I cannot work anymore. I am eligible to apply for the company long term dis but of course I am worried they will deny it.

I am out of work and incredibly stressed out. I started on houttunyia about a week ago, starting with one drop and I felt some head pressure and spaciness. I eventually took 10 drops and was in bed with bad fatigue for half a day with a lot of fear, anxiety and was unable to eat for hours. I have dialed the dose back down and am at 7 drops twice a day and still herxing, strong but tolerable. I've been scouring the lyme forums and have read so many threads on houttunyia.

Traveler, are you out there? You have been such an inspiration and a beacon of hope for me. I am so worried that herbs (e.g. houttunyia) will not be enough and that I won't be able to work and will lose everything. I am herxing bad on houttunyia, so that is supposed to be a good thing right? Other than the cognitive symptoms the main debilitating symptoms keeping me from work now are insomnia (I was waking up at like 3AM unable to fall asleep despite taking sleep med) fatigue and frequent loss of appetite/nausea. All of the symptoms tend to occur on the same days so I feel its one infection flaring.

I know this is long winded and probably all over the place, but Traveler I wanted to ask some things about the houttunyia:

how long did it take to see any progress on symptoms?
any chance my insomnia, fatigue or being unable to eat will gradually wax and wane over time as I herx through it?

In other words, I am wanting to know if I am just setting myself up for an 8 month long herx simmer from pissing off Bart or something else or if I can expect mini-cycles of herx and improvement?

I am just so scared when I read that it takes doxy/rifamp for Bart and triple antibiotic therapy for Bruc when I haven't even ever been able to convince a "regular" doctor that I am even sick!

Thank you for reading this and Traveler thank you so much for sharing your story, advice and encouragement over the years! I hope you are feeling wonderful!

Sincerely,

doors12

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/14/2018 7:52 PM (GMT -6)   
doors12 - I emailed Traveler to let her know about this thread.



Can't guarantee she will be on this evening though.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/14/2018 7:56 PM (GMT -6)   
You mentioned antbiotics and convincing a regular Dr. You wouldn't be seeing a regular Dr to treat with abx.
You'd need a LLMD - but you are currently treaty herbally .....so no need to worry about that.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

doors12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 689
   Posted 1/14/2018 8:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Girlie! I really appreciate your support and presence on this board, you've helped me a great deal as well!

I just don't know how anyone has the money to treat, the herbs and the ND are expensive already and the LLMD stuff and antibiotics...wow.
Positive test for lyme disease antibodies, brucella, babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, mycoplasma 2015
Pancolitis Ulcerative Colitis (Mild to Moderate) dx in 2006 diagnosis changed to acute infectious colitis 2015
3/2014 heterozygous mthfr
Herbal treatment with addition of Alinia/tinidazole

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 1/14/2018 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
>>I just don't know how anyone has the money to treat, the herbs and the ND are expensive already and the LLMD stuff and antibiotics...wow.

most don't and if they do they go into major debt and sometimes broke. i heard someone say to treat these infections and eradicate them can cost about $150k out of pocket. oh the joy!

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/14/2018 9:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Doors!
Aww! Thank you for your ever so kind words! They made me smile!!

So, since I'm not going to be available tomorrow morning, I thought I'd try to answer as best as I can tonight, but please understand I'm tired, so if I seem to leave something out, please ask!!! LOL!

I'm so very sorry!!!! It does sound like you have been through a really rough herx!

First of all, please understand that the stress and anxiety is adding to this - there may not be much you can do about it though, but do what you can to lower your stress, and treat your anxiety if it's still a bit much. It will just make this easier to get through is all.

I really need to go back and edit my post about using houttuynia - if I could find everyone where I implied where I did, or even said I did, I would edit them as well, but I can at least edit the one on houttuynia as I used it. eyes I have come to understand things a bit differently now. I didn't really use it as a stand alone treatment, I was using the chronic tonic with it. The chronic tonic (as I used it) had these herbs in it:
Cat's Claw, Echinacea Angustfolia, Teasel, Eleuthero, Red Root, Japanese Knotweed, St. Johns wort,
Artemisia Annua, Neem leaf, Oregano, and Thyme.

Next, can I ask if you went from one drop up to 10 suddenly or gradually? Either way, even at 7 drops you are herxing, and don't forget that herxing is really quite hard on the body as it's a crisis situation as far as it's concerned. There's too many toxins in the blood stream for things to continue to function well. So, please do lower your dose further.

Was there a previous dose that you were on that you didn't herx on? If you went from one to ten drops, you won't know, so we know that 7 is too much for now, so drop back down to at least 4 drops for now until the herxing comes under control. Then, slowly, one drop a day, raise your dose until you start to herx. Once you start to herx, drop back one drop, and increase your detoxing for a couple of days or more, until the herx comes under control.

If you are okay going forward with that amount of detoxing, then you can begin to raise your dose again. If you don't want to keep that same level of detoxing going, then drop back to a more comfortable level of detoxing, and once your herxing is under control, then start raising your dose again.

No doubt this is the long way to do this, but it's what I've had to do with much of my treatments - and I still seem to move forward faster than many that push much harder to move forward with their treatments. Patience and paying close attention to the body for clues as to what/how much it can handle are what help me the most.

about you waking at 3 am and not being able to sleep, I'm a bit concerned that your adrenals may be suffering at this point. Would you ask your doctor to test your cortisol levels with a 4 point saliva test for cortisol? This is the best test there is out there, as it measures your saliva for cortisol usually upon rising, noon, 3 pm and at bed time. This way you get a good picture of what your cortisol levels are throughout the day. Cortisol should be highest when we first wake up, and then gradually lower until it's at it's lowest point just before bed. You may be suffering from an inverted cortisol schedule, or you may be low throughout the day. I don't know if you knew, I ended up sliding down into Addison's, so adrenal health is of great importance in my eyes now.

As far as how long it took for me to feel a difference, I believe it was about one month when I started feeling better? But I'm soooo not sure of that answer!! I'm just too tired to be sure right now. I'll be back, of course, to see if you have re-read this and see if you have questions that I can be of help with later on tomorrow. I'm changing out kitchen faucets tomorrow morning! LOL! Or at least that's the plan.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/14/2018 9:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, a special thank you to you for making sure I knew that someone had 'urgent' questions for me!! You are just too kind!!


Rikky - that's so very true!!! I don't even want to try to figure out how much money I've spent over my life treating infections I had all along. Hubby thinks it's likely at least $100K for me, and I'm not done.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32617
   Posted 1/14/2018 10:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler said...
Girlie, a special thank you to you for making sure I knew that someone had 'urgent' questions for me!! You are just too kind!!


Rikky - that's so very true!!! I don't even want to try to figure out how much money I've spent over my life treating infections I had all along. Hubby thinks it's likely at least $100K for me, and I'm not done.


You're welcome, Trav.


Re: the cost of having these infections....add to it the lack of income for those of us who haven't been able to work...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/15/2018 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Re: the cost of having these infections....add to it the lack of income for those of us who haven't been able to work...


Sooo true!! I'm one of those that hasn't been capable of holding a job for the last - ugh, I don't want to say!!! Let's just say it's over 20 years and not quite yet 30 years! LOL!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

doors12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 689
   Posted 1/15/2018 5:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, thank you, thank you Traveler! And thank you Girlie!

I had to read what you wrote 3 times traveler! My head doesn't work right..haha. I had started with 1 drop and felt some head pressure/spaciness but mild, then 2, also head pressure/spacy, then 3 twice a day, then 5 twice a day (woke at 4AM worried), then I did 10 drops the next morning and 5 drops in the PM. The next day I was bedbound with fatigue and an internal vibration that made me super nauseous. Then somehow around 4PM the herx kind of "broke" like a fever would. I had some internal pains but felt improvement.

I knew I pushed it too hard that day, so the next day I just did 6 drops. I had a lot of body twitches and minimal sleep. The next day I did 5 twice and was ok (did notice a faint bart streak rash on abdomen). The next day I did 6 twice, then 7 twice the following, and then 8 drops and 7 drops on the day I sent the above message asking for your help. I did an epsom salt bath that night and it helped ease the horrible feeling quite a bit, which I greatly appreciated!!!

Today I took your advice and just did 5 drops in the AM. I was still fatigued up until around 11AM but I managed to help out a bit around the house and go to the store with my loving girlfriend for food. I am thinking I will probably skip the evening dose altogether and/or possibly just try 4 drops tomorrow.

I am starting to wonder if I go real real low and slow if maybe maybe I can work while doing this...the prospect of living off of savings for an entire year is dreadful. I hear you about dealing with the anxiety I am working on that to. The cortisol suggestion is a great idea, I may run that by my lyme doc and see if he can do it, since I am pretty sure I'm black-listed at regular doctors by now. I hadn't heard that you had Addison's Traveler, I'm sorry to hear that....I think you are on to something as the herx feels a lot like adrenal fatigue.

I guess my only real additional question for now is, do you think that if I back down the dose and be more mindful of my detox vs dosage, that I might be able to functional while on the houttunyia? I have managed to previously keep my job with years of no treatment, and then with a few real bad herxes (including the one from the transfer factor that traveler and girlie so kindly replied to at the start of my treatment/diagnosis).

Traveler, I hope the kitchen faucets went smoothly and thank you so much for your help and sharing your story here! I love healingwell and have used it for many years and I appreciate all of you so much. What we are dealing with is not acceptable and I pray every day that the truth and the help we need with be forthcoming. You guys take care and I'm sure I will be posting more threads in the near future...hehe

sincerely,

doors12

Post Edited (doors12) : 1/15/2018 4:28:19 PM (GMT-7)


doors12
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 689
   Posted 1/15/2018 6:59 PM (GMT -6)   
well I went ahead and took 5 more drops, so 5x5 today, I will monitor my herx and detox more if it gets too bad
Positive test for lyme disease antibodies, brucella, babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, mycoplasma 2015
Pancolitis Ulcerative Colitis (Mild to Moderate) dx in 2006 diagnosis changed to acute infectious colitis 2015
3/2014 heterozygous mthfr
Herbal treatment with addition of Alinia/tinidazole

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/16/2018 12:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Doors,
Thank you so much for your kind words - they are heartfelt!!!!

It IS possible that you can remain functional if you keep your doses lower, and work very slowly through the treatments. Do understand that you will still have to get those doses up high enough to be effective enough to clear the infections - but that doesn't mean that getting up on those doses "in a hurry" changes the chances of you healing - but it does increase the chances of a more severe herx - and for those of us that are prone to that anyway, it's a problem!

So, stick with the slow approach. That's what I'm doing, and it's working. I have more stamina now than I did previously, and lowered symptoms - no doubt they are still there, but they don't interfere with my day all that much, with the exception of fatigue - but I'm working on that too.

For many of us, keeping a careful balance of detoxing and treatment so we are never in much of a herx is a much better way for us to heal. We have to remember, the body was not designed to withstand long, drawn out periods of stress like there is with these infections and more serious herxing - and for some of us, it can be our 'undoing'. So slow and steady is how we get back to being functional.

I sure hope we hear from you again!!! We will always want to know how you are doing!!! And, of course, if there is anything we might be able to help with!! But, please know you always have a shoulder to lean on here!

Well, the kitchen faucet didn't go too smoothly (besides, that would scare me!! LOL!), but we DID get it done!! !No more drip, drip, drip!!! YAY!!! My nerves will sure appreciate that!!! LOL!

Best of luck, Doors, and do be sure to either post here, or email Girlie or I if you have more questions!!!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:20 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,358 posts in 326,171 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161243 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, BG14.
345 Guest(s), 3 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Dimitri71, Scaredy Cat, JayPoppa