4 Weeks Into Lyme Treatment and opinion on Herxing.

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Mark FW
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 1/16/2018 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Couple of comments being into this for 4 weeks now.

First I want to thank you all for your advice. I value your opinions and cannot imagine how some of you are coping.

I realize I'm new and maybe presumptuous of me but I have to say it.

HERXING CANNOT BE GOOD FOR YOU and IMHO is detrimental to your overall healing. And I will avoid it at all cost. Also if you have any Nero symptoms I would classify it as outright dangerous.

6 days of absolute HELL.

While in some aspect it does seem to validate that I have a Lyme and or one of it's co-infections. I admit my mistake was ramping up on the herbs a few weeks after starting abx. All the supporting herbs maybe, but Japanese Knot-weed put me over the edge.

Understandably at 58 I have one compromised Kidney with a partially blocked renal artery and not the Liver I had at age 19. So yes you can ramp up the detox (which I'm doing a lot of) but seems like you also need to back off bug killing treatment. And FAST.

To me any herxing should be controlled and with the oversight of a doctor.

Anyways there's my rant.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32685
   Posted 1/16/2018 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Mark - Sorry you had a 6 day long herx...

I would think detoxing would be more of a challenge with a compromised kidney.


I don't 'try' to herx...but it still does happen - often after starting a new treatment protocol..but even when I've been on a treatment for awhile...I do still herx at times.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/16/2018 3:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mark,
I completely agree with you, and have been saying that herxing is not good for us and should be avoided whenever possible for many years now. But, we all have to learn at our own pace.

Herxing is due to the toxins released during the bacteria/other organisms dying. Those toxins will accumulate not only in our tissues, but in our bloodstream as well, and that's when things start getting serious. The body simply cannot tolerate a lot of toxins in our bloodstream - so we must manage this carefully, or we will end up in a cytokine storm. www.sinobiological.com/Cytokine-Storm-Cytokine-Storms-a-5800.html

I'm so sorry that you had such a miserable herx!!! I was in a herx for 12 months when I first tried treatments - and I ended up a LOT worse than pre-treatment. I had to take more than a year off to try to detox and find a bit of balance again - but I was still a lot worse than I had been pre-treatment. Now, I do all I can to minimize my herxing, including moving super duper slow through my treatments. I may not be the first to finish treatments, but with any luck, the healing will hold!!

Hang in there!
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

Psilociraptor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 1/16/2018 3:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Herxing is a good sign but it's not great for you. Knotweed made me herx REALLY bad. I had to start on baby doses and work up over months to get to a full dose. I still herx quite a bit. I just try to keep it minimal. A little joint or muscle pain here or there. But there were points where i nearly put myself in the hospital from herxing too hard. If i don't herx at all though i get antsy it's not working :P lol

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 1246
   Posted 1/16/2018 6:42 PM (GMT -6)   
I think a herx is the only sign that you know you are on the right track. Spending months of your life on a treatments that isn't working cannot be good either. if you are doing a treatment that doesn't work then your infections is growing.
I disagree with absolutely never herxing. I spent way to much of my life on treatments that were not working.
With that said you do want to be functional.

WalkingbyFaith
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 1682
   Posted 1/16/2018 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Mark,

Japanese knotweed is a tough one for me, too. Most of the herbs are. Unfortunately, I feel like I'm herxing most of the time in some way or other. I do dry brushing, epsom salt baths, and take binders daily and frequently do castor oil liver packs, but no amount of detoxing seems to bring that much relief to me.

I have a lot of confirmed or suspected toxicity issues beyond just Lyme (mold, heavy metals, gut dysbiosis) and probably have genetic detoxification issues. All that makes for a pretty impaired detoxer.

I do herbs only. A mere 7 days of antibiotics left me herxing to the point of barely being able to walk for 2 months afterward. Even with herbs, I'm still at tiny doses on many of them. To add insult to injury, I seem to have a penchant for both delayed and prolonged herxes. I'm in a bad one right now and this is a couple of weeks after adding new herbs. Makes it very difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what is causing the herxing so I can make appropriate adjustments.

We're all different. As a side note, I'm always amused when I read posts from those who have done the multiple long term antibiotics and then they switch to herbs and have bad herxes, or they get coinfection symptoms they hadn't had before. Just reinforces in my mind how potent herbs are. They shouldn't be taken lightly.

mudshark
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/17/2018 9:28 AM (GMT -6)   
In the beginning long before starting abx treatment I tried some herbals to see if they would help. Knotweed was one of the first and by the 2nd day I started feeling so much worse I had to stop taking it. I took too much too soon for sure and haven't tried it again. I thought it was supposed to help you get rid of stuff and not cause herxing, but I found out differently. I agree the herbals can be pretty strong.

I look at the herxing as something I need to push through looking for the light at the end of the tunnel. I think if they got too bad I'd back off, but so far they have not been intolerable. I realize that this is not the case for everyone. If I could eliminate or minimize them and somehow be assured treatment is progressing that would be wonderful.

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 36310
   Posted 1/17/2018 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
I think a herx is the only sign that you know you are on the right track. Spending months of your life on a treatments that isn't working cannot be good either. if you are doing a treatment that doesn't work then your infections is growing.
I disagree with absolutely never herxing. I spent way to much of my life on treatments that were not working.
With that said you do want to be functional.



I wanted to address something that is sort of implied here - not seeing improvements and continuing on with treatments.

I realize I never clarified that I would never stick to a treatment where I didn't see results after about 3 months. While it may be very difficult to know when we are having small improvements and may need to stick it out with a treatment a bit longer, in no way did I mean to imply that we should stick to treatments when we see no improvements.

We are often dealing with so many symptoms that we don't notice when one little symptom is slowly improving, and that's why symptom journals are so important, especially for those that are new to this. I kept one for the first several months, then learned how to read my body better, so now I no longer keep a symptom journal. It was hard for me to think about every single symptom I had. I literally had every single symptom in the "Master symptom list", with the exception of the more serious heart issues, male only issues and infant issues.

But, when I 'hit upon' a treatment that really worked well for me, there was no doubt that my symptoms were getting lighter in severity.

So, we can do both - zero to very minimal herxing and not staying with a protocol that doesn't work for us.

For those that think they need to push through herxing - look into cytokine storms. You should at least be educated about what you are risking, so if nothing else, you can get yourself to a hospital if you need to, should the herxing suddenly, without warning, get very severe. It's been known to happen and we have had members here go through that situation.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New set of infections 8/2014 - still treating.
Come visit me: dogwoodtraditionals.freeforums.net/

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 9729
   Posted 1/17/2018 5:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I did not herx. Am I a super detoxer??? Who knows. Maybe it was because I treated when I got bit? Maybe I went low in doses and slow in upping? Who knows again.

I didn't herx and healed and so did hubby.

Detoxing is an all day thing in our home and has been for years way prior to lyme.

The Dude Abides
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 1135
   Posted 1/17/2018 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
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