Starting Mepron/Atovaquone for Babesia Duncani, what to expect?

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Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 1/20/2018 9:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,

I was dx with Lyme in October, had symptoms for roughly 2-3 months prior to that. Been treating with Doxy 200mg 2x/day, azithromyicin 500mg 1x/day, and Tindamax 500mg 2x/day for 3 days on 4 days off since then (with a brief failed switch from Doxy to Amoxicillin, GI tract couldn’t handle it) plus supplements of Magnesium, B12, B complex vitamin, probiotic, Turneric, Omega 3, and coQ10. I’ve made great progress overall but had lingering issues with anxiety that lead me to request igenix testing at the end of December. Got the results back yesterday where I tested borderline positive for the Babesia Duncani strain (and still tested positive for Lyme IgM on all 3 bands). I don’t know much about this strain but my LLMD says it typically manifests much more mildly than Microti (my best friend had classic symptoms, night sweats, air hunger, heart arrhythmia etc).

My new protocol is Mepron/atovaquone 5ml 2x/day, Aziothromyicin 500mg 1x/day, and Tetracycline 500mg 3x/day. Same supplements for now but I removed the Turmeric for now as the brand I have been using contains milk thistle and I’ve read that this can negatively impact Mepron.

My questions are, anything to expect while starting Mepron? My LLMD told me having a Mepron herx is unlikely (but maybe switching from Doxy to tetra could?). Also, any additional supplement recommendations/changes now that Babesia is in the picture? I took my first dose last night and another one at 7am this morning (both with a spoonful of peanut butter) and I do feel light -headed and fatigued this morning with some neck/muscular tightness at the base of my head. Thanks everyone!

Dahlias
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 464
   Posted 1/20/2018 9:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi! I started Atovaquone last week. Seems to be affecting my mood mostly, plus a bit of increased air hunger. Due to the mood issues, I backed down to half a dose for a few days but took the full dose this morning. (Not sure if that's recommended.)

I'll be interested to see what other people say. Good luck!
"This too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it will pass."

JustPiccd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 1/20/2018 10:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Solaris, it's weird your LLMD would say duncani is "milder" as it's actually the exact opposite, people call it "babesia on steroids." Sometimes microti protocols don't work as well for babesia duncani. The herx is often very emotional. For me, I always have a dramatic increase in night sweats too if a babs med or herb is making me herx. I found it useful to really write down and track symptoms and side effects with suggestions for myself on how to antidote things in the moment. This too can vary per person, and sometimes it means slowing down the mepron which is a really hard drug, often it means detox strategies or having a friend remind you that these meds can cause emotional symptoms.

I am back on mimosa pudica (I'm doing IV clinda now plus alinia for babs, but about to switch over to orals again for babs) which for some reason is *by far* the herb that has given me the strongest herx w/ b. duncani. I have taken all of the others (Nutramedix Quina -- 2nd best, then A-Babs for me was nothing, Artemesia Annua in just about every form did little after awhile, Crytolepsis for me also seemed like nothing, Sida Acuta, nothing), but an LLMD actually recommended mimosa and it was a good call for me. I'm not suggesting you add it right this second if starting on these heavy meds, but it might be useful for you too down the line w/ the same strain.

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 1/20/2018 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
JustPiccd said...
Solaris, it's weird your LLMD would say duncani is "milder" as it's actually the exact opposite, people call it "babesia on steroids." Sometimes microti protocols don't work as well for babesia duncani. The herx is often very emotional. For me, I always have a dramatic increase in night sweats too if a babs med or herb is making me herx. I found it useful to really write down and track symptoms and side effects with suggestions for myself on how to antidote things in the moment. This too can vary per person, and sometimes it means slowing down the mepron which is a really hard drug, often it means detox strategies or having a friend remind you that these meds can cause emotional symptoms.

I am back on mimosa pudica (I'm doing IV clinda now plus alinia for babs, but about to switch over to orals again for babs) which for some reason is *by far* the herb that has given me the strongest herx w/ b. duncani. I have taken all of the others (Nutramedix Quina -- 2nd best, then A-Babs for me was nothing, Artemesia Annua in just about every form did little after awhile, Crytolepsis for me also seemed like nothing, Sida Acuta, nothing), but an LLMD actually recommended mimosa and it was a good call for me. I'm not suggesting you add it right this second if starting on these heavy meds, but it might be useful for you too down the line w/ the same strain.


Thank you for the advice. Technically he said the symptoms were more “subtle” than microti. I never had night sweats before or after abx treatment, my major symptoms of Lyme/babesia have been anxiety, fatigue, mood swings, headaches , neck tightness, and some depression. Within 2-3 weeks of treatment the depression, mood swings were gone, the fatigue is 90% better as of now, and the anxiety has improved by remains my biggest complaint. My igenix score for igM duncani was right at 20, which means its possible I could have a false positive. Are there any other hallmark signs or specific things that differentiate duncani from microti?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 1/20/2018 4:40 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know the difference between the two - as far as symptoms go.


Just curious - why do you need to differentiate - when the treatment is the same.

When I read babesia symptom lists - they don't separate the microti from the duncani.


I had an increase in my sweating and really bad head pressure when I was on the Mepron for Babesia.

and...anxiety here and there.

I would take more than just 1 Tbsp of peanut butter. I did that, plus more fat - a fatty meal or some cheese...or coconut oil...
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 1/21/2018 8:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
I don't know the difference between the two - as far as symptoms go.


Just curious - why do you need to differentiate - when the treatment is the same.

When I read babesia symptom lists - they don't separate the microti from the duncani.


I had an increase in my sweating and really bad head pressure when I was on the Mepron for Babesia.

and...anxiety here and there.

I would take more than just 1 Tbsp of peanut butter. I did that, plus more fat - a fatty meal or some cheese...or coconut oil...


You’re right, worrying about differentiating isn’t necessary. Yesterday for a few hours I had a really bad episode of feeling depressed which scared me a little bit. This morning I feel a little down but definitely still a marked increase in fatigue. How long did your symptoms/side effects last when you started? I did start 2 new meds (Mepron and Tetracycline) so perhaps both could be causing a herx but I’m thinking it’s the Mepron. I also noticed I probably yawned like 15-20 times after dinner last night. I really need to work tomorrow!

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/18/2018 10:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Update, need advice:

I have been taking the Mepron, Azithromyicin, and Tetracycline since 1/19, and after some dizziness and a brief episode of depression on day 2, I have had no major symptoms other than the usual anxiety. However, right at the beginning of week of 4 (2/8) I noticed a significant uptick in anxiety that my Klonapin wasn’t touching (I take .25mg 3x/day). This steadily got worse over the days that followed, and I finally hit my breaking point on Thursday 2/15. Suspecting either a herx, and also concerned about possible liver/kidney issues from the daily diarrhea, I didnt take my morning dose of Mepron and Tetracycline. I was able to work till about lunch, and after that I began feeling beyond terrible: headache especially near my temples, light headed, fatigue, severe anxiety and feeling like I was weak and may faint. After I came home, I called my LLMD who told me to stop all the antibiotics, drink lots of water, use Alka Seltzer Gold, and to call him Monday. I came thiiiis close to having my wife take me to the ER around 4pm because I was feeling so bad. I took regular Alka Seltzer (wasn’t able to obtain Gold until the next day) twice and didn’t take my supplements except for the Probiotic and multivitamin. I woke up feeling better but stayed home from work on Friday and rested, and also was able get to my PCP to order some bloodwork. Yesterday was a decent day as I felt okay enough to go visit my parents but by dinner time the anxiety and some fatigue had returned. Woke up this morning with my neck and suboccipital muscles incredibly tight (this is one of the only major symptoms that I had for about 2 months prior to being diagnosed with Lyme), significant anxiety, and brain fog. My bloodwork (drawn Friday) only shows elevated ALT (97) and AST (54), sodium 1 away from normal range (135, with normal being 136-146) and pH being 7.44 (normal 7.33-7.43, prob due to Alka seltzer I’m guessing).

My question is, is this a Babesia herx? Lyme herx? Am I losing my mind? When I was just treating Lyme with Doxy, Azithromyicin, and pulsed Tindamax I had maybe 2 or 3 herxes that resolved within 12-24 hours. These symptoms started slowly at the beginning of week 3 of treating Babs and by week 4 through today has basically been hell. Can babs herxes last this long? Prior to Alka Selzter for detox I was drinking lemon water, taking turmeric, b vitamins, magnesium, omega 3, and a plyontrient supplement from
Herbalife called Garden 7 which has a lot of antioxidants.

Any advice on what I should do? I really want to just pulse antibiotics whenever I go back on because my body/GI system have been telling me for a while now that they need a break. I’m also hoping that these symptoms are a herx and will subside and that I’ll be able to go 2 weeks without antibiotics, because before I found out I had Babs, when I stopped the antibiotics after 8 weeks the symptoms were all back within 3 days. Anything I should ask my LLMD when I call on Monday?

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/18/2018 10:37 AM (GMT -6)   
The only thing I should add is that I came down rapidly with Flu like symptoms (fever, fatigue, body aches, chills, swollen lymph nodes) on Wed the 7th right around dinner time, got tested at urgent care negative for the flu, and woke up at 2am drenched in sweat but the fever was gone. This was the only time since I’ve been treating Lyme and now Babs that I’ve had a fever or night sweats. Wondering if that was possibly a herx, or flu or some other virus. It came on rapidly but also resolved fairly rapidly.

hammer8
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 61
   Posted 2/18/2018 11:13 AM (GMT -6)   
This sounds similar to what happened to me.

My symptoms were somewhat mild, and then I started targeting babesia. I never herxed from medicine targeting lyme/bartonella, but anything targeting babesia makes me experience: malaise, fatigue, depersonalization, depression, headache, and night sweats twice. To be honest with you, the herxing lasted for 2-3 months. Babesia is my main issue, and I have been using an intense protocol to hit it. Good news is that the herxing does eventually lift, and when it did for me, I have felt, and have been feeling, almost symptom free.

In terms of what made me feel better during a herx, only infrared sauna and sleep helped. I tired Neurotox II, Burbur/Pinella, and everything else you can imagine, but I personally think those are designed for herxes triggered by borrelia, not babesia.

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/18/2018 11:46 AM (GMT -6)   
hammer8 said...
This sounds similar to what happened to me.

My symptoms were somewhat mild, and then I started targeting babesia. I never herxed from medicine targeting lyme/bartonella, but anything targeting babesia makes me experience: malaise, fatigue, depersonalization, depression, headache, and night sweats twice. To be honest with you, the herxing lasted for 2-3 months. Babesia is my main issue, and I have been using an intense protocol to hit it. Good news is that the herxing does eventually lift, and when it did for me, I have felt, and have been feeling, almost symptom free.

In terms of what made me feel better during a herx, only infrared sauna and sleep helped. I tired Neurotox II, Burbur/Pinella, and everything else you can imagine, but I personally think those are designed for herxes triggered by, not babesia.


Did you stop your antibiotics when the herxes hit? How long into treatment before you started herxing? What protocol were/are you using? My treatment currently is Mepron 750mg 2x/day, Azithromyicin 500mg 1x/day, and tetracycline 500mg 3x/day, with the Tetra being for Lyme of course.

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2860
   Posted 2/18/2018 7:50 PM (GMT -6)   
>>my LLMD says it typically manifests much more mildly than Microti

who is this LLMD? Duncani is quite nasty and way more difficult to get rid of than Microti. i battled it for 9 months before switching to bart for a year and am just wrapping up another YEAR of treating babesia duncani and i think i finally cleared it.

it doesn't go away quietly or easily. its a nasty bugger and Dr. J in DC believes that if you don't clear this one you'll never fully get rid of the other ones like lyme and bart.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 2/18/2018 8:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Solaris719 said...
Girlie said...
I don't know the difference between the two - as far as symptoms go.


Just curious - why do you need to differentiate - when the treatment is the same.

When I read babesia symptom lists - they don't separate the microti from the duncani.


I had an increase in my sweating and really bad head pressure when I was on the Mepron for Babesia.

and...anxiety here and there.

I would take more than just 1 Tbsp of peanut butter. I did that, plus more fat - a fatty meal or some cheese...or coconut oil...


You’re right, worrying about differentiating isn’t necessary. Yesterday for a few hours I had a really bad episode of feeling depressed which scared me a little bit. This morning I feel a little down but definitely still a marked increase in fatigue. How long did your symptoms/side effects last when you started? I did start 2 new meds (Mepron and Tetracycline) so perhaps both could be causing a herx but I’m thinking it’s the Mepron. I also noticed I probably yawned like 15-20 times after dinner last night. I really need to work tomorrow!


My head pressure and sweating peaked out around two to three months in I think....and then got better, but still there for the duration (approx. 7 - 8 months in total on it)

Now my head pressure is much better than when taking the Mepron...but still shows up periodically. I'm sweating a bit in the early morning (waking up) but not during the day/evening currently.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/18/2018 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Rikky1 said...
>>my LLMD says it typically manifests much more mildly than Microti

who is this LLMD? Duncani is quite nasty and way more difficult to get rid of than Microti. i battled it for 9 months before switching to bart for a year and am just wrapping up another YEAR of treating babesia duncani and i think i finally cleared it.

it doesn't go away quietly or easily. its a nasty bugger and Dr. J in DC believes that if you don't clear this one you'll never fully get rid of the other ones like lyme and bart.


I am in Connecticut and am beginning to think I need to see another LLMD for a second opinion.

When you say way more difficult, are you referring to more difficult herxing or just that it tends to take much longer timewise? What was your treatment regiment?

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/19/2018 3:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms when stopping antibiotics? I would like
To think that after 4 months of treatment I could go longer than 3 days without ABX before feeling almost back to square one. I do have baseline anxiety issues which I am going to bring up to my PCP tomm and possibly start an SSRI to help address that issue.

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/19/2018 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Solaris,

I am back on babesia treatment with Mepron and Zithromax (and lots of herbs) after taking a month break for work related traveling. Before the break I had taken it for 2 months.

My experience was exactly how you described. The first month was fine for me.. Maybe some weird herxing symptoms here and there but nothing to write home about.

Then around week 4 I had terrible head pressure and almost burning like pain on my scalp. I could barely focus on anything and could absolutely not go shopping. It was terrible. I just would get so overwhelmed.

The anxiety stuff kind of stopped by week 8 when I took a break but I still had terrible dizziness, fatigue, head pressure, fatigue, heart palps, etc.

Those sx did not improve after stopping so here I go again starting the mepron and zithromax for at least 3-4 more months.

I started last Thursday night and it's been kind of rough. I have been extremely moody, fatigued, weak and my air hunger is bad (feel the need to constantly yawn). Maybe the herx is coming faster since I already had a couple months of treatment before my break a month ago..

I am sure I am missing other sx I was having too, but I just know it was similar to you.. first 4 weeks were fine then out of the blue it hit me hard.

Please keep us updated on your progress! I read a lot of people having the same experience as hammer had - after 2-3 months the sx improve a LOT. I have yet to feel the turnaround but I hope it is close!
Very sick starting around 07/2016
Started treatment 03/2017
Bixain & Cefdinir - 3 months - plateaued
Then Biaxin & Minocycline - 3 months - did not improve
Tinidazole - 500MG 2x a day - 2 weeks
Now taking:
Mepron 5mL 2x a day
Zithromax
Nystatin
Cats Claw - 30 drops 2x a day
Gou Teng - 30 drops 2x a day
CSA - 40 drops 2x a day
Japanese Knotweed - 40 drops 2x a day

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/19/2018 4:25 PM (GMT -6)   
NicHostetler said...
Solaris,

I am back on babesia treatment with Mepron and Zithromax (and lots of herbs) after taking a month break for work related traveling. Before the break I had taken it for 2 months.

My experience was exactly how you described. The first month was fine for me.. Maybe some weird herxing symptoms here and there but nothing to write home about.

Then around week 4 I had terrible head pressure and almost burning like pain on my scalp. I could barely focus on anything and could absolutely not go shopping. It was terrible. I just would get so overwhelmed.

The anxiety stuff kind of stopped by week 8 when I took a break but I still had terrible dizziness, fatigue, head pressure, fatigue, heart palps, etc.

Those sx did not improve after stopping so here I go again starting the mepron and zithromax for at least 3-4 more months.

I started last Thursday night and it's been kind of rough. I have been extremely moody, fatigued, weak and my air hunger is bad (feel the need to constantly yawn). Maybe the herx is coming faster since I already had a couple months of treatment before my break a month ago..

I am sure I am missing other sx I was having too, but I just know it was similar to you.. first 4 weeks were fine then out of the blue it hit me hard.

Please keep us updated on your progress! I read a lot of people having the same experience as hammer had - after 2-3 months the sx improve a LOT. I have yet to feel the turnaround but I hope it is close!


Thank you so much for the reply, it is good to know that I am not the only one experiencing these things. When I first started Mepron I could not stop yawning either - I did not realize that this was considered air hunger! I had a similar episode yesterday even though my last dose of Mepron was Wed night 2/14. I am still dealing with terrible anxiety, some head pressure, fatigue and mild weakness, and intermittent mild dizziness.

I am off the Mepron until Friday after speaking to my LLMD this AM regarding my symptoms and liver function tests. This week my regiment is now Azithromyicin 500mg 1x/day Mon-Thurs, back to Doxy 100mg 2x/day (going back to the typical 200mg twice per day if liver function tests improve) and Mepron 750mg 2x/day (Fri, Sat, Sun). He wants to reduce my overall antibiotic load and because Mepron has such a long half life allows it to be pulsed. I am hoping that this will allow me to continue treatment without impeding my ability to work and especially without beating up my liver. I cannot handle another herx like that again. I am hoping that any subsequent herxes will be more tolerable than the initial one.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 2/19/2018 4:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Solaris719 said...
Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms when stopping antibiotics? I would like
To think that after 4 months of treatment I could go longer than 3 days without ABX before feeling almost back to square one. I do have baseline anxiety issues which I am going to bring up to my PCP tomm and possibly start an SSRI to help address that issue.


I wouldn’t say you get withdrawal symptoms - but once you stop taking the abx you’re not keeping the bugs in check anymore and your symptoms slowly come back.

Somebody posted that doxy can have an anti inflammatory effect - maybe that is the case with you?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 2/19/2018 3:42:44 PM (GMT-7)


Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/19/2018 6:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Solaris719 said...
Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms when stopping antibiotics? I would like
To think that after 4 months of treatment I could go longer than 3 days without ABX before feeling almost back to square one. I do have baseline anxiety issues which I am going to bring up to my PCP tomm and possibly start an SSRI to help address that issue.


I wouldn’t say you get withdrawal symptoms - but once you stop taking the abx you’re not keeping the bugs in check anymore and your symptoms slowly come back.

Somebody posted that doxy can have an anti inflammatory effect - maybe that is the case with you?



I believe that is the case and makes the most sense, as I had great control of the anxiety and headache/pressure issues while on Doxy treating lyme (before finding out I had babs), and they came right back after roughly 3 days of discontinuing (about when Doxy should be out of the system). I believe that switching to Tetracycline, which seems to be less effective than doxy and I believe has worse ability to cross blood brain barrier, also contributed to having poor job of controlling these symptoms as Mepron ramped up.

FWIW, the infectious disease MD that I saw last week for the heck of it (who of course told me my treatment plan was complete junk and that I did not or no longer have Lyme/babs) told me that Doxy has anti-inflammatory properties and that’s why I felt better when taking it. Not because it was killing Lyme, but that it may be masking the “true problem”.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 2/19/2018 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Solaris719 said...
Girlie said...
Solaris719 said...
Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms when stopping antibiotics? I would like
To think that after 4 months of treatment I could go longer than 3 days without ABX before feeling almost back to square one. I do have baseline anxiety issues which I am going to bring up to my PCP tomm and possibly start an SSRI to help address that issue.


I wouldn’t say you get withdrawal symptoms - but once you stop taking the abx you’re not keeping the bugs in check anymore and your symptoms slowly come back.

Somebody posted that doxy can have an anti inflammatory effect - maybe that is the case with you?



I believe that is the case and makes the most sense, as I had great control of the anxiety and headache/pressure issues while on Doxy treating lyme (before finding out I had babs), and they came right back after roughly 3 days of discontinuing (about when Doxy should be out of the system). I believe that switching to Tetracycline, which seems to be less effective than doxy and I believe has worse ability to cross blood brain barrier, also contributed to having poor job of controlling these symptoms as Mepron ramped up.

FWIW, the infectious disease MD that I saw last week for the heck of it (who of course told me my treatment plan was complete junk and that I did not or no longer have Lyme/babs) told me that Doxy has anti-inflammatory properties and that’s why I felt better when taking it. Not because it was killing Lyme, but that it may be masking the “true problem”.


Well, I doubt if the anti inflammatory effects would be enough to mask your Lyme symptoms...might just take the edge off them.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/20/2018 10:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Solaris719 said...
NicHostetler said...
Solaris,

I am back on babesia treatment with Mepron and Zithromax (and lots of herbs) after taking a month break for work related traveling. Before the break I had taken it for 2 months.

My experience was exactly how you described. The first month was fine for me.. Maybe some weird herxing symptoms here and there but nothing to write home about.

Then around week 4 I had terrible head pressure and almost burning like pain on my scalp. I could barely focus on anything and could absolutely not go shopping. It was terrible. I just would get so overwhelmed.

The anxiety stuff kind of stopped by week 8 when I took a break but I still had terrible dizziness, fatigue, head pressure, fatigue, heart palps, etc.

Those sx did not improve after stopping so here I go again starting the mepron and zithromax for at least 3-4 more months.

I started last Thursday night and it's been kind of rough. I have been extremely moody, fatigued, weak and my air hunger is bad (feel the need to constantly yawn). Maybe the herx is coming faster since I already had a couple months of treatment before my break a month ago..

I am sure I am missing other sx I was having too, but I just know it was similar to you.. first 4 weeks were fine then out of the blue it hit me hard.

Please keep us updated on your progress! I read a lot of people having the same experience as hammer had - after 2-3 months the sx improve a LOT. I have yet to feel the turnaround but I hope it is close!


Thank you so much for the reply, it is good to know that I am not the only one experiencing these things. When I first started Mepron I could not stop yawning either - I did not realize that this was considered air hunger! I had a similar episode yesterday even though my last dose of Mepron was Wed night 2/14. I am still dealing with terrible anxiety, some head pressure, fatigue and mild weakness, and intermittent mild dizziness.

I am off the Mepron until Friday after speaking to my LLMD this AM regarding my symptoms and liver function tests. This week my regiment is now Azithromyicin 500mg 1x/day Mon-Thurs, back to Doxy 100mg 2x/day (going back to the typical 200mg twice per day if liver function tests improve) and Mepron 750mg 2x/day (Fri, Sat, Sun). He wants to reduce my overall antibiotic load and because Mepron has such a long half life allows it to be pulsed. I am hoping that this will allow me to continue treatment without impeding my ability to work and especially without beating up my liver. I cannot handle another herx like that again. I am hoping that any subsequent herxes will be more tolerable than the initial one.


Mepron is very hard on your liver.. every time I start it and get lazy with my Milk Thistle I see my enzymes shoot up.

I would suggest adding in a liver detox supplement. I take 1000mg of milk thistle and I take it in the middle of the night so it is away from the Mepron because I have heard that it lowers the effectiveness of Mepron but that may not be true because there is no medical research to back it up (according to my LLMD)

Mepron does have a long half life.. I remember when I was having a nasty herx from it around christmas time I had to take a break. It took 3 to 4 full days before the herx subsided.

Solaris719
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 2/20/2018 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
NicHostetler said...
Solaris719 said...
NicHostetler said...
Solaris,

I am back on babesia treatment with Mepron and Zithromax (and lots of herbs) after taking a month break for work related traveling. Before the break I had taken it for 2 months.

My experience was exactly how you described. The first month was fine for me.. Maybe some weird herxing symptoms here and there but nothing to write home about.

Then around week 4 I had terrible head pressure and almost burning like pain on my scalp. I could barely focus on anything and could absolutely not go shopping. It was terrible. I just would get so overwhelmed.

The anxiety stuff kind of stopped by week 8 when I took a break but I still had terrible dizziness, fatigue, head pressure, fatigue, heart palps, etc.

Those sx did not improve after stopping so here I go again starting the mepron and zithromax for at least 3-4 more months.

I started last Thursday night and it's been kind of rough. I have been extremely moody, fatigued, weak and my air hunger is bad (feel the need to constantly yawn). Maybe the herx is coming faster since I already had a couple months of treatment before my break a month ago..

I am sure I am missing other sx I was having too, but I just know it was similar to you.. first 4 weeks were fine then out of the blue it hit me hard.

Please keep us updated on your progress! I read a lot of people having the same experience as hammer had - after 2-3 months the sx improve a LOT. I have yet to feel the turnaround but I hope it is close!


Thank you so much for the reply, it is good to know that I am not the only one experiencing these things. When I first started Mepron I could not stop yawning either - I did not realize that this was considered air hunger! I had a similar episode yesterday even though my last dose of Mepron was Wed night 2/14. I am still dealing with terrible anxiety, some head pressure, fatigue and mild weakness, and intermittent mild dizziness.

I am off the Mepron until Friday after speaking to my LLMD this AM regarding my symptoms and liver function tests. This week my regiment is now Azithromyicin 500mg 1x/day Mon-Thurs, back to Doxy 100mg 2x/day (going back to the typical 200mg twice per day if liver function tests improve) and Mepron 750mg 2x/day (Fri, Sat, Sun). He wants to reduce my overall antibiotic load and because Mepron has such a long half life allows it to be pulsed. I am hoping that this will allow me to continue treatment without impeding my ability to work and especially without beating up my liver. I cannot handle another herx like that again. I am hoping that any subsequent herxes will be more tolerable than the initial one.


Mepron is very hard on your liver.. every time I start it and get lazy with my Milk Thistle I see my enzymes shoot up.

I would suggest adding in a liver detox supplement. I take 1000mg of milk thistle and I take it in the middle of the night so it is away from the Mepron because I have heard that it lowers the effectiveness of Mepron but that may not be true because there is no medical research to back it up (according to my LLMD)

Mepron does have a long half life.. I remember when I was having a nasty herx from it around christmas time I had to take a break. It took 3 to 4 full days before the herx subsided.


I am back on the milk thistle. I wasn’t taking it because I had read that it lowered the effectiveness of Mepron. However my liver health is much more important and I’ll take it mid day in between doses of Mepron. You take 1000mg? I usually take 350mg.

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/20/2018 12:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Mine is 250mg extract which says it is equivalent to 1,000mg.

I do agree that liver health is extremely important!

I still feel that the mepron is working, even with taking the Milk Thistle.. at least I hope it is!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 2/20/2018 1:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't see it on this table (re: P450)

/www.ebmconsult.com/content/pages/medications-herbs-cytochrome-p450-cyp-enzyme-inhibitors


And, I also put it into the Drug Interaction checker I use:

My Interactions List
atovaquone
milk thistle
ConsumerProfessional
Major (0) Moderate (0) Minor (0) Food (1) Therapeutic Duplication (0)
Interactions between your drugs

No results found in our database - however, this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

/www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=277-0,1633-0
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

NicHostetler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 622
   Posted 2/20/2018 2:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
I don't see it on this table (re: P450)

/www.ebmconsult.com/content/pages/medications-herbs-cytochrome-p450-cyp-enzyme-inhibitors


And, I also put it into the Drug Interaction checker I use:

My Interactions List
atovaquone
milk thistle
ConsumerProfessional
Major (0) Moderate (0) Minor (0) Food (1) Therapeutic Duplication (0)
Interactions between your drugs

No results found in our database - however, this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

/www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=277-0,1633-0


Thanks Girlie! I have heard that it isn't necessarily an interaction but more of the milk thistle detoxing the liver before the mepron has a chance to get through and do it's work. Or is this what an interaction refers to?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 32667
   Posted 2/20/2018 2:53 PM (GMT -6)   
NicHostetler said...
Girlie said...
I don't see it on this table (re: P450)

/www.ebmconsult.com/content/pages/medications-herbs-cytochrome-p450-cyp-enzyme-inhibitors


And, I also put it into the Drug Interaction checker I use:

My Interactions List
atovaquone
milk thistle
ConsumerProfessional
Major (0) Moderate (0) Minor (0) Food (1) Therapeutic Duplication (0)
Interactions between your drugs

No results found in our database - however, this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

/www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=277-0,1633-0


Thanks Girlie! I have heard that it isn't necessarily an interaction but more of the milk thistle detoxing the liver before the mepron has a chance to get through and do it's work. Or is this what an interaction refers to?


An interaction can be several things - reducing the effectiveness, enhancing the effectiveness, causing certain side effects

So, yes if milk thistle affected the liver by detoxing the MT out of your system that would be an interaction.

You can separate the two as much as possible to try and reduce that ...but Mepron has a long half life of 2-3 days so that might not help.

I wasn't told not to take milk thistle but at the moment I don't take MT so hadn't worried about it. I tske Pekana apo-hepat but am running out so will probably switch to MT soon.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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